Stop Paying People to Attend Your Event

I'm still thinking about it, Isablan.

"I'll tell you why they care about LL subsidising events, because even though some of these people have well over L$100,000 they begrudge you making $250 for an event because you dont do it either by scripting or by using photoshop and its THAT simple."

That's the impression I have gotten also.

But I thought it was $500?

coco

Well, Coco, the reality is that there was a lot of abuse of the event subsidies. A club could do 8 events a day and take in 4,000L in subsidies. While I don’t have any animosity towards those earning monies from jobs in clubs, I can understand why many in SL have a big problem with LL underwriting an SL business to that extent when everyone else has worked very hard to earn their Lindens. Not to say that event hosts don’t work hard, but there is bound to be some anger towards dancers and those that can hang around AFK and still be getting paid as “entertainment”.

Prior to the event changes there were an awful lot of clubs where the hosts where completely uninvolved with the crowd, the music was uninspiring, and people were only there to grab some cash to finance their next purchase. Frankly, it sucked that LL was subsidizing that. I was at a great event last night where my hostess gave me a large cash prize for doing nothing except accidentally wearing the right thing; I gave the money back to her and told her that she never needed to pay me to hang out in her club. The best way to get bodies into your club is not prize money. It is a good DJ and great atmosphere. People having a good time will TP in their friends and they will be back next time. They will tell newbies about your club and they will tell their friends.

My personal feeling is that LL should subsidize host fees (directly to the host, not the club), but nothing else, but only at a level of 1 event per day. What you will not see is a return to the old days of full subsidization; however, there will likely be a compromise at some point.

The moves that changed stipends and event subsidies were part of a larger need to tighten the cash in the SL economy. If too many residents on a basic account can fill their consumption desires with easy cash, they have little incentive to move up to a premium account and possibly become land owners. In a previous post, I detailed why this is important to the future of all our second lives. There needs to be enough entertainment to get a new resident hooked and then enough incentive to get them into a premium account, where they become part of what is keeping the servers running at Linden Labs. Certain people can whine all they like about how unfair this is to basic members, but the bottom line is that there will be no second life for anyone without a solid cash flow for LL.

I see a lot of anger expressed in this thread, which to me is wasted energy. Energy that could be being used to figure out how to turn this situation to your advantage, because there is always a way. Who cares if someone looks down on you because you don’t build or script? Assume that they are misinformed and move on. Let go and walk tall. You know your own worth.

Isablan, I really appreciate the time and thought you've put in to making this issue clear. So many people reacted with rage when LL turned off the subsidy for entertainment hosting. Their ox was gored so they got mad.

Well, LL wasn't paying a subsidy to other kinds of businesses! All that happened is the playing field got levelled. A would be business owner can choose any kind of business to start, and not expect a LL subsidy. It's up to us to make it work.

Btw nice Botannical Gardens in Federal. I like to see what forum posters build. It shows me something about the person.

Ox was gored? (laughs) I have no rage, but I think that people imagine there were giant subsidies for events hosts that didn't really exist. $250 for several hours of work is hardly a cash cow. As for subsidies, 3D content makers get them. We (and yes I make 3D content as well as community-building content, I'm just significantly better at the latter) get subsidies in the form of lotteries for free space to sell our stuff (as SL just had), we get Dwellnor awards, just as the clubs do, and we get the ability to sell our items endlessly without ever having to buy materials for it (access to volume that events content makers do not have because they can't host concert stadiums full of people: only 10-30 at a time without a sim crashing). Additionally, SL subsidizes our building with a lovely file full of free textures to use! We 3D content makers certainly are subsidized.

Something that is imperative for 3D content makers to understand is that without a healthy events schedule (and now what we have is a slate of what feels like business events rather than social events) SL will most certainly bore those who are unable to compete in building or scripting with the folks who make 3D content and who code for a living (the 40% of people in game). The other 60 percent will have nothing to actually do. It used to be that the level of competition for builders was low; this has changed. Some of LL's customers will be patient enough to stay customers long enough for their learning curve to hit the point where they can sell something they have built. Many won't be. To expect a virtual community to be happy with a two teir system of consumers and producers (producing elite and consuming masses) is unrealistic. People need a sense of identity. People don't just have jobs for money but also for a sense of place and belonging in the community. This is important for LL to understand. It is important for 3D makers to understand that the playing field is not now equal. No events venues are making money from events that aren't gambling. This means that nothing but pay for events and commercial events will survive other than those few that are hosted by volunteers. This is your issue as much as it is ours (events makers) because your sales will slow and eventually cease when SL's growth does and consumers leave the game because of having nothing to do here.

The dancers you have seen AFK who were supposedly being paid while they walked their dogs irl were likely entertaining customers in IM. They earned their money from the club owner by entertaining the club owner's customers (or my naughty grrrl alt did when she was a dancer, at any route). The problem is, the club owner now has no way to earn the money to pay staff. It is this simple, 3D content makers: it isn't an us/ them situation. It is us/ us. Without a place to go to show off your goods or to meet people to take home to show off your goods, people don't have a reason to buy them in the first place. Without socialization, SL is nothing but a mall in a vacuum (shudders, thinking she has encountered her personal visualization of hell).

We're in this together. Please let LL know that you are in favour of the return of reasonable events funding (funding hosts, if not prizes) AND do yourself a favour: donate some prizes to an event! Get your name out there.

In your opinion this may be true. In the reality that I have seen, it couldn't be further from the truth. For one thing, a DJ costs money, L$500 per event. So I am still shelling out hard earned L$s to bring in crowds. For another thing, I have yet to hear one person in here mention an event that has happend in the last 4 days where attendence was at 25 or above, without the host or hostess providing some form of prizes, whether cash or merchandise.

Let me make myself clear, yet once again: I pay out cash prizes as an incentive AND as an investment for people to visit and possibly even live at Night Mountain. I don't rely on Linden "subsidies" nor do I feel the need, personally, for them. I won't begrudge someone else receiving them.

As ANY real business owner knows, you need to advertise and events, for lack of a better term, are advertisements for the commercial properties that they are held on. If you don't like commercialism, fine, don't go to those events, but quit trying to take away the opportunity for others to visit those events.

I will also reiterate that this notion that we need to make a rule to stop business owners, like myself, and other event hosts from paying out cash incentives is ludicrous and borders on the obscene.

Eh. It's an idea that goes against everything we've become used to with events. I think that's why it appears obscene to you.

I understand the need for advertising your club/shop/apartment complex or whatever it is you have, and I think it's great that your events are so successful. I also understand that you give out your own money and I think that's very generous.

However, what do you think of those who can't pay people to attend their events? As you yourself said, you haven't seen any event with more than 25 people that didn't give out prizes. This is not merely about commercialism. This is about the type of events themselves. You are only proving my point, which is that people go to events because they get paid to go to them.

And I get your points about having offers, or discounts etc. Do you offer discounts to people who come to your place who want to rent out your apartments? Or who want to buy things at your store? I don't think this is the same as giving out money so that people will attend your events.

Another question I have for you -- do you break even? I'm asking this out of curiosity. Do all your sales at your shop and rentals of apartments pay for the money you give out to people? Do you profit from this?

Well, Lo I did read your whole post and although I almost fell in myself, one thing kept sticking in my throat. I honestly think people host the events that they do is beacuse these are what people will attend. Sadly but, never the less true. We have tried costume parties, building contest even a carival complete with games, rides and give aways. These produced only a trickle of visitors. Although they were a great time and by no means will we quit looking for alternatives, It seems that tringo still rules SL

I broke even for the first time, on a week to week basis, this past week. Which is pretty good considering that I have only had Night Mountain for about a month. The reason that I was able to break even is because my investment into cash prizes for guests is paying off. Do I make a profit with Night Mountain? Not yet, but I see it in the near future.

As far as making a profit is concerned regarding this discussion, are you looking for another way to bash the business class in SL?

Uhhhh no. And are you just looking for ways to insult me? I expressly said that I had nothing against businesses in SL. I have one myself. Got it? Get over yourself.

Then why did you ask? You may state that you are pro-business, but your other words belie that fact.

I asked because according to you, it is good business sense to give out your money so people will come. Therefore I simply asked if it worked.

Yes, it works. But giving prize money alone won't work. The entertainment itself, and the host, have to be fun and pleasant and recognizing of each individual there or people don't come back. And even then, sometimes they don't come back, lol.

coco

Ok, here is my 2 cents worth...
I run events, mostly educational. I get support for these classes. Support for those kind of events feels right. My concern isn't really support as much as it is what is allowed. It seems some events are restricted because they offer goods and services rather than a contest or class. Firstly, If LL is to monitor and restrict events bases on these rules LL must do so uniformly. I see yard sales(not permitted) get listed several times a day, unless there is a complain they stay on the calander. That said, I think yard sales should be permitted, as well as other commercial events offering goods and services IF we are to permit other businesses to list on the events calander. Secodly, I see no reason to allow Tringo businesses the pleasure of business enhancement via the events calander when other viable businesses are blocked. An example might be "come to my store and try on a few free outfits, I'll be here to make minor adjustments and change colors on request." there are many other examples I can think of that would open up the calander to other businesses, as long as the host is on site to answer questions and do something for the visitors. The only restriction i would put on events is the host must be on site AND offer something people want or need beyond selling things, services for money. Offering things for sale would be ok, but the event should offer more. Example in RL: The Dodge dealer offers free hotdogs and coke for just visiting. To me this is an event, the hosts are there to answer questions. People only come if they want to come... AND... we can sort events according to our desire, if I feel like dancing i can limit my search to general fun, but we need a section to list store events as well. Newbies will benefit by getting free things and advice from great store owners. Maybe we need a "commercial" events calander to seperate educational/ general fun from the businesses like Tringo and stores/yard sales.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents. ty for letting me vent lol

Kevin, that's a great idea and one that got discussed recently with the Lindens.

A rework of the events calendar might give us the following categories, with the option to see all events on the list or radio buttons with the option to see specific categories only.

Those categories might look like this:

Dances/parties
Educational/creative contests
Sales/Grand Openings/Fashion Shows/Commercial Special Events
Discussions/group meetings
Games


Any thoughts?

Excellent! That would be a huge step forward. I was thinking about it, LL might even charge a small listing fee for commercial events to keep them honest, not much, $35L or something like that. Also create a group of regular residents to monitor the events list, visit the events and report findngs to the Lindens for action. Maybe even create a fine for misuse of the calender. After the first warning a fine of $50L for second offence, $100L for third etc. Right now there are no formal consequenses to breaking the calander rules that I know of. Business owners are careful with the purse so fines might do the trick... just me rambling lol.. ty for letting me know there is a discussion to make some of these changes.

Kevn, I started a thread here:

/13/d5/45987/1.html#post488492

to carry on this discussion in a less angry place. BTW, the idea of posting fees has already come up and was soundly drubbed, it died in committee.

Actually, it never died in committee. I created a thread (/110/ad/44208/1.html) within this forum regarding charging for listing of commercial events. 23 are in favor. 15 are opposed. 7 are undecided. That's no where being drubbed or dead. It just hasn't been discussed fully.

AMEN! Someone actually gets it!

All this is just wonderful but....................

Under these terms Timmy old chap you cant hold 'events' because you have a Casino.

And why am I going to pay x amount of Lindens to advertise an event on MY land when the groups belonging to my club number over 1000 people.

If my vendors want to put on a fashion show at my club your saying they then have to PAY for the privalage of showing their goods on land they already pay rent to maintian?

Can of worms time.

Yes I can see that inviting people over to a place of business with the intent of taking money from them to put into your pocket isnt really an event......but there are many different ways of looking at this and it needs very careful consideration.

I paid about L$66,000 to build my casino and club. Do you think I got that money by standing by a money tree since im less then 30 days old? I had to go to GOM and buy the L$. Now when I host an event or promote my casino you want to make it so I can't give people an incentive to come? SL is about doing what you want to do, doing the things you can't do in RL. I should have taken a different approach to this and just paid my basic 9.95 and been done with it. However I wanted to do more, so now ive paid out over L$66,000 and have a $50 USD a month tier charge for my land. Its funny, even with my casino and hosting events I don't make money, I still loose money. But guess what, I have fun being around fun people at these events. So if I put out a money ball to keep people there, oh well, it is my land that I pay for.

I just read in another article that educational events shouldn't be hosted on owned land that way no one would benefit from stipend. What about the monthly charge LL gives these people for using the land? If you think SL should be free for everything and no one should benefit then maybe you should start buying some L$ and giving it out to everyone so things are equal. It is very hard to make money in SL if you don't design clothes, build, or script. And even if you do, it's hard to find work sometimes.

Most events are hosted by a host. Who pays the host to sit there for a couple hours to make sure the event goes smoothly? The land owner usually. And I can guarantee that any stipend or dwell recieved will never offset that cost of paying a host for one event.

If you don't want to "bribe" people to attend your events thats fine with me. You can do whatever you want. It's your SL as much as mine. But I do have a problem with you telling me what I can and can't do on my land that I pay for. You want to pay for some of my land? Then we can talk about "laws" and "regulations".

Well ..

I beleive it would be better if somehow people spent money in clubs, not going to them to get money.


BUT .. i dont think LL should stop people from spending money however they want to.

I agree. Usually people drink alchohol in clubs, so its hard to duplicate that. I have a casino next door, which is somewhat of a cost offset for the club, but its not nearly going to pay for itself.

I came from TSO about a week ago and there were discussions like this in Stratics. And I've never understood why people don't let everyone play the game they way they want to, as long as they are directly hurting others "play time". Who cares if they pay people to go to events..who cares if they don't?!?

Those of you that have never experienced TSO, go there and give it a shot. You will appreciate the EXTREME amount of freedom that SL offers you over TSO. There are so many opportunities in SL that wasn't in TSO. If you didn't own a skill lot or a money lot (where you were paid for amount of objects you made, and paid well), you received no visitors, therefore no "bonus" and TSO has turned into an AFK game. In SL most people talk and visit, because there are things to do. You want visitors be hospitable! Use your personality, use creativity to draw the person in..there is so much here! And if you want to use money to lure them a couple of times, then do it. Like someone else said, if a person wants to max their credit cards on this game, hey, its their monthly bill not yours.

Some people enjoy just coming in, sitting down and chatting to people, some prefer just to gamble, etc etc. I work at the Edge for tips, yes they offer events/contests that give away money, but it is voted on by the people there, out of 40 people only 2 or 3 receive money after hanging out for 2 hours, but they keep coming back why? there are friendly hosts, djs, dancers, etc. Many come just to dance and socialize, there is no guarantee that you are going to get money, objects anything! But the atmosphere keeps them returning.
Sometimes I don't get any tips, therefore no money, do I quit and give up, nada, its what you make of it. This is the most "free" game for creativity I've found. You can literally do just about anything you want. If you think there are too many rules, like I said go visit TSO...

I am not directing this to anyone in particular, just figured I'd give my opinion. And yes I was a Basic until today, the ONLY reason I switched is because I want to build my own place. If it wasn't for my unending desire to learn to build and create things, I'd stick with basic and be homeless but I'd still enjoy myself as I have the last 8 days. Make it your own people!!! As long as someone isn't directly hurting you..i.e. talking trash about you or your event or going against the ToS..LET THEM BE!!

I help out at Club Akasha with my dear friend and we give away money all the time. We have fun contests usually that have to do with an event theme for best outfit. People have fun shopping or creating stuff to wear to try to win prizes and to see what everyone else comes up with. We have made so many friends who attend our club regularly. We aren't bribing them. We are having fun and creating an event that people enjoy. And yes we have a money ball some night too, why not. It is our money and if we want to give it away to our guests then who cares? Also, doesn't these types of events encourage commerce in SL. I am a designer and I certainly dont mind if people are shopping at my club for a special outfit for a club event at Club Akasha or anywhere else.

I personally attend events for the events and not so I will be paid. We have a full club whether we are giving away money or not, so I dont think our guests consider themselves bribed. Maybe I'm not following what you are referring to because I haven't personally experienced it. Hope you dont mind my 2 cents

Love and Light to All

kaia Ennui

I agree there are to many events of tringo and such but on the other hand events a player driven. Meaning, the people having events arent going to repeat events that people dont show up for, the downfall of that is , to much of one thing or a few things and no diversity.

There are tools to have events for like minded folks, grouping is one. When you go to an event you like and that you might like to have in the future and invite those people to your group. Announce to them when you have an event that you might like to share and think they might share in.

Problem is in the people not the system is bottom line. There doing what they want to do, there use to be more events that were more diverse before Linden pulled the zipper tight on there perverbial pockets. Now people are driven to make money other ways such as tringo and raffles. Where the people coming get paid but so do the hosts. They take a % as there pay for doing the event in say a raffle. There forced to do things that make both money and that is more limiting so far anyways.

Antiquity~