Stop Paying People to Attend Your Event

Chip,

I myself do not think the LL should be handing out event subsidies. What I have a problem with is the fact that some people have issues with concepts of financial "incentives" for people to show up at events. I also have a problem with people thinking that those financial "incentives" should be banned.

What SL doesn't need is more rules, rules that can be very subjective and rules that can destroy the SL economy.

You are trying to take away my only way of making Lindens in this game? (Minus a few sales I have made.)

It's not easy to have almost your entire income - except for $50 a week and a bit of bonus - depend entirely on attending and hopefully winning cash from some of these events.

And now you want to make sure I can't POSSIBLY get any money, except for buying it from other players with rl dollars? That's mean.

Anyway, many events just NATURALLY call for prize money - such as contests and game shows.

When I did Game Show Channel in TSO, people loved playing the games, but they also loved getting some money for the time they spent "playing" instead of actually earning money. (Translated for here: Getting some money for the time they spend "playing" instead of nose to the grindstone creating something they hope people will buy.)

If the whole game gets down to - Either script or build - or - buy money from those who do - well, to heck with that. That's not so much a game as it is a "subsidize scripters and builders" situation.

They should bring back the subsidies for all events, with some kind of monitoring or requirements to make sure such events aren't merely ads in disguise.

Meanwhile, if people want to award Lindens as prizes, what's it to you? My making $150 at something isn't actually going to cause the end of the SL world as we know it.

It just means I actually have money to buy something. (Which in my case means renting a place to live, and hoping I can pay the rent next week.)

coco

Perhaps a large portion of the problem is that people who pay a one time fee of $9.95 and feel it should entitle them to something more then admittance to the game. I dont understand that attitude if you want entertainment in real life you pay for it this is no different. TSO charges a monthly fee so does There, as does everquest and countless of other online games; in SL people just seem to complain that theres no way to make money.

In TSO yes I could make lots of money jamming a way, but to do what with it? I found the content to be very poor in TSO and the ability to do your own creative development was little or none. There was an improvment but not much.

I have tried many different games over the years and to date this is the one even with its bugs, that offers the greatest amount of tools for creativity has an opportunity to socialise if you so choose or just play any one of the games available in world.

While I do feel that event sponsering should be reinstated it is more for the reasons that a host has to put work and time into running an event. I find it interesting that people slam the "Ingo" events, while at some games there is money put into it by the host by and large these events sustain themselves by money from the players themselves. Any so called advantage is because the players want to play the game.

Depending on the game some take concentration and its not as social an enviroment, while at another you will find people enjoying the game chatting dancing and doing what not.

I happen to enjoy both and choose what suits my mood. I also go to clubs when I want to socialise or just destress and have fun, I go to Art shows, Show n tell and debates and countless of other events. Prizes be they cash or an item are fun ways to reward people but I really dont think they are the major reason for people to attend an event. While it may be a factor I tend to feel its the enviroment created by the host and people who attend.

Anyone who is criticising hosts for not being creative or that its not an effort deserving to be paid has not done it with any consistency. When you host an event people expect many things, they expect to be entertained, they expect the event to run smoothly, they expect you to deal with anyone who disrupts the game and countless other things.

I can not tell you as the countless hours I have spent speaking to people trying to resolve conflicts. Am I required to as a host no but to me its important that if someone comes to my event they leave happy and want to return.

As to interesting events people are quick to point the finger at hosts but I have to say I have hosted a variety of different types of events, by and large the ones that take more effort by the participants tend not to do as well.

*pops 2 L cents in jar* If someone wants to pay me to go to an event that sounds good, those type of events have lots of people I would assume would be a cool place to say hello to new peoples so I welcome the freebies and am glad that by just parking my ass on someones land I'm helping them get dwell points is cool. It seems like everybody wins.*tip-toes away to spank pet*

Sure, pick on those who have chosen to use the US$9.95 lifetime plan offered by LL. I know lots of monthly subscribers that use events, such as the ones I put on at Night Mountain and that I host at other locations, to supplement their income. Do you want to also complain about them being free loaders?

I help the SL economy by giving out prize money to those who attend my contests and events. If you go on a game show, do you expect to get bubkus? I don't think so. Instead, you choose to whine about the life time members. Get a life dude and leave those of us who actually enjoy having the company of others, even if through bribary, alone!

Um perhaps you should reread the post its clear you didnt read it the first time. Nowhere did I say I was not in favor of giving prizes out in fact I do believe I said it was a nice perk.

I said it was unfair to accuse places that had games that had pots or gave prizes out, of having an unfair advantage because often those are given by the players, not just the host. I said that while prizes are nice it is the enviroment that ultimately makes it a good event.

As to the $9.95 acount I have no problems with that being offered I think its a great way to see if you like SL, it is how I started. I do have an issue with people who pay that and then gripe they have no sl money to buy things with. You pay for entertainement when you go to the movies, you pay for cable or to go out to dinner etc. SL is a form of entertainement, $9.95 gets you and admission ticket but don't expect it to give you everything.

There are a multitude of options here, many creators offer clothing and a multitude of objects that are given as freebies there are even a few places that offer free rent. If you want to buy things then you have the option to create be that as a content creator or through creating events. If you just want to have fun and just be social, as well as purchase things then you have the option of upgrading to premium and or buying money at GOM.


Nor did I whine and I have a very fulfilling life thank you very much.

Er... yes, actually, I do want to complain about that. It's that very attitude, that a one time fee of $9.95 should get you everything that's killing event hosts. Why isn't that obvious to you?

Its not killing me. I offer incentives for ALL SL residents to come and enjoy Night Mountain. I don't care if there are lifers or monthlies. I don't care if they own land or not. I want people to be at Night Mountain, period. If those same people then turn around and shop at my retailers, great, if not, well, no harm no foul.

Its all about getting attention for your property and incentives are the best way to do it. No one is killing me. I am successful because I work hard at my making my retailers, my residents and my visitors very pleased. I offer a virtually lag free development with everything they might want or need. All they need is the boost to know where the hell it is, since LL has made it tougher to do so.

By the way, I have to meet a lifer who has the attitude that they should be given everything for free, although, I have met several monthlies are cheap asses.

I agree with you, Sparkle, about it being the host and the environment that makes the difference. I will NOT go to this one place I hate (because it is crass, and because the host often doesn't show up), no matter what prize money they offer.

I go to the places I like regardless of the size of the pot. At one particularly well-run spot - SexyEyes Valentyia I believe is how her name is spelled - she does add her own money to the pots every time. Now I know this isn't easy for her, and I also know she does NOT do it simply to get people there. She does it for the same reasons I did it at Game Show Channel - because it's NICE.

I don't think people are factoring that in enough. It is not a "bribe". Yes, you will get more people to come if you offer definite prize money of your own to the pot, but it works also on very much the same principle as going to a party. The thoughtful hostess gives party favors, along with decorating the place to please, etc., and running the entertainment in an efficient and pleasant manner. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about either, anyone, because I was very good at just this sort of thing in TSO and for just the same sort of reasons SexyEyes is good at it here.

And I agree totally with Sparkle's reasons for reinstating the funding for events. If some wish to use it for prize money, fine - but I agree the main reason is, as Sparkle says, the time and energy and commitment it takes to hold a nice event. (Which can also incur expenses in the way of items necessary for the event.) It should be the host's choice what they want to do with the money.

"When you host an event people expect many things, they expect to be entertained, they expect the event to run smoothly, they expect you to deal with anyone who disrupts the game and countless other things. " AMEN. Try doing it on a regular basis. Until you have, you have no idea the skill, effort, patience, perserverence, and desire to make people happy with your entertainment that it takes.



Here is where I part company with you. For these reasons:

(a) People complain that there is no way to make money in SL because there is no way to make money in SL. Unless you script, build, or trade in land.

(b) LL saw fit to OFFER this $9.95 one-time thing. They knew perfectly well that a number of people with no intention or no money to trade up to a premium account were going to take them up on it. They know MOST are going to trade up if they like the game, but they know some aren't, and an even smaller proportion of those who don't trade up will be serious players of the game. Like me. As far as I can tell from all my dealings with the Lindens (as opposed to what I sometimes hear on the message boards), they don't consider input from basic members to be worthless, nor do they consider us second-class citizens in any way.

(c) There is no QUESTION that this game has far and away the more interesting and engaging content. The idea of whether or not one can make the money to purchase things or not has nothing to do with the relative merits of the content in this game versus others.

(d) It is constantly assumed that only the lowly basic member goes to these contests and games and other events where prizes are awarded. I don't think that's true. I find that basic members are kind of few and far between. Could be there are lots who just don't play much (cause if they did, likely they would trade up to a premium account), but I don't often run into them. When I go to these games, I don't believe I am surrounded by a bunch of basic members. I think I will make a survey at the next few games I attend.

The point is, these are for EVERYONE. Premium members who aren't content or scripting whiz kids (and even some of those who are) also find they need money sometimes. And games and contests are a fun way to maybe get some. I notice that there are plenty of prizes awarded by long-term players to top content providers in those kinds of contests, in addition to the big developer incentive contest. But I don't see anyone hollering about these. Just Tringo et. al - the average- and poor-players' contests.

Chip, you're so all-fired determined that people go to GOM for their money. And your opinion of basic members that they are a bunch of moochers who can't possibly contribute anything to the game seems to be your consistent reasoning for this. And this idea is extended to ANY player - if you can't make an animation or waterbed or airplane people want to buy, then tough - go to GOM. A number of people on the message boards share your opinion. God FORBID we should frequent - and enjoy! - free slots hours, Bingo, Jeopardy, or some other contest.

I would like to suggest that if you're so eager for people go to GOM for their money (justified, of course, by the fact that we contribute nothing and expect too much "given" to us), why not be just as eager for the people who give these events to go to GOM for their prize money to give away? I mean, if people are buying money from GOM, that is money in your real life pocket, regardless of who does the buying, right? (Although I realize that not providing funding for events results in exactly that - hosts having to go to GOM.)

(f) Making money this way - by trying to win it - is by NO MEANS an easy process. First off, you better like the game you're playing, and secondly, you better like where you are playing it and the people you are playing it with. You'd better find the whole thing fun or you can't possibly play enough games to win enough money to amount to ANYTHING. And even then, you will be spending a whole lot of your time playing games and losing.

But guess what - this IS a way to make money. If you go to games long enough, you're bound to eventually win one just from the luck of the draw. Would you like to have to do that for a living? The original poster here wants to take that away.

Not to mention that these things are FUN. They are funner when you are playing for money instead of matchsticks. Why take away that fun?

(g) The notion that basic members are free-loaders who want everything and contribute nothing is wrong. For one thing, many may be trying just to make enough to even get a start, so they can go on to do bigger and better things. For another, this notion that "contribution" consists solely of designing dresses, or some similar endeavor, overlooks the other things a person can contribute to a game, including ideas, feedback, charm, company, audiences, appreciation, events of their own, things they make and sell - the list goes on and on.

My point is it is extremely devaluing to people to be told they don't count and are not contributing because they are trying to make it on a basic membership, and make it NOW as opposed to some other time when money wasn't so hard to come by. Or because they are regular, perhaps casual players who don't have the specialized skills and talent you have.

And finally, you might as well quit harping on basic members because the truth is, $500 a week just isn't that much better than $50 a week. Yep, it is better - 10 times better - but for a premium player trying to afford a pricey item, $500 doesn't really go all that far, and you are likely to find just a whole lot of premium members at a bingo game hoping to win the jackpot so they can buy this or that item. I've heard it a jillion times.

Why take that fun and opportunity away from everyone? Basic and premium members alike? Looks like just another transparent ad for GOM to me.

coco

I totally agree that 500 is not alot, not if you want to purchase things. Nor do I think having a basic account makes a person count less, I feel its a great way to get into SL I started that way as have many people of the people I have introduced to SL.

Its only an issue to me when people complain about lack of things SL offers when so many other games have cost the same or more monthly for me to play and offered less. So really my point is that entertainment r/l or online costs money.
When you consider that if you pay up front for a year for a premium account it works out to bout $6 or $7 a month thats less then a movie ticket each month these days.

I strongly disagree with trying to disallow prizes for events thats takes the fun out of things. I do feel that prizes do not always need to be money but can be other things that are just as well recieved. But money is always nice too!

It's nothing to do with 'bribes' thats just a crock of shite written by someone who doesnt know the first thing about either events,event hosts or owners.

Two people out of 40+ at the event can win $250 each - thats not a bribe. Bribing people is having a money ball 24/7 - bribing people is the illusion of gambling.

It's become a case of the rich get richer and the poor eat shit.

This is the bottom line - if you have the money IN REAL LIFE to pour into this game then you'll do well. If you dont have the money IN REAL LIFE to keep that money ball spinning then your gonna be dead in the water.

If you cant see that event support was the thing that made everyone equal then your utterly blind.

And Chip - I pay $200 a month land fee's and $30 a month to stream - so if you think thats not contributing anything to SL and that by getting event support I was leeching then you my friend can kiss my poor arse.

First of all, you guys really need to chill and stop tearing out each other's throats over every imagined slight. While everyone here realizes that (FORUM && DRAMA) == TRUE, it does NOT need to be proven in EVERY thread.

Now, lets look at this honestly:

Events are voted in by what people go to. Period.

It does not matter if you have a really cool club, tringo game, or just pay people at the door to stick around. People go to events for their OWN reasons. Just because event creators have found that bribery works to get event goers to come to them does not mean they are doing anything wrong, or that events need to be 'fixed' again. I personally use income I get from building for others to pay my tier and finance events. In fact, I blew the last of my last job's income on the May Day festival Botany and myself hosted.

We were swamped.

Did they come for money? Nope. They came because it was an interesting theme and they wanted to be entertained. Did some win prizes? Yup. Gifts, items, but not much money.

I run an event called Foolish Frost's Word-Puzzles. Do people come by in the hopes to make a little cash? I'm sure they do. They also come by enjoy each other's company.

Both of these events were fun, and people enjoyed them greatly.


See. No conflict. The point is that people had fun. Including myself...


Later,

Where did I say that you don't contribute, Sox? I simply find it baffling that the people who are most hurt by the $9.95 should buy me everything/anti-GOM mindset are the same people who do the most to encourage it. Seems a bit counterproductive to me. Personally, I think event hosting is one of the most difficult and time intensive jobs there is in SL, and those who do it deserve to be rewarded for their efforts by the people who attend and enjoy their events. Lamenting the end of event subsidies while at the same time bristling at the notion that people should be paying you for the entertainment you provide them is a bit like complaining that you can't afford to buy yourself a drink while buying a round for everyone else in the bar.

Because the fact is, whether or not you accept it, Chip, people WILL NOT PAY to attend stuff in a game!

Think about it. Why should they? Why should they pay to enter a club? In real life, there are thousands of clubs and bars you go to WITHOUT paying at the door. But SL club owners can't exactly make their profit by selling drinks, can they?

Take group fun games, like Captions, Primtionary, or Jeopardy. In real life, people don't pay money to play Taboo with their friends, do they? They don't pay money at the door to play poker with their buddies for real money stakes, either.

How about game shows? In real life, people don't pay to be part of the audience of these shows or to be selected as contestants. In fact, the contestants are there in the hopes of WINNING.

Ditto discussion groups. When is the last time you paid for the privilege of putting in your two cents in anything irl?

How about movies? We have movies now. People are not going to pay real money to watch movies they can watch for free at home without lagging up their house to the point where they can hardly get up to go to the bathroom.

The only successful implementaion of pay-for-entertainment I've ever seen in any game is David Pierce's plays in TSO. And the charge to attend those was primarily for verisimilitude, to keep the attendance in reasonable numbers, and to be able to have a guest list to prevent folks from dropping in in the middle. It didn't make him and the other actors and staff rich.

As far as I'm concerned, that is one of the few exceptions that proves the general rule: People will not pay for entertainment in an online game.

You may not like it; you may think the entertainment should somehow be so fabulous that people WILL start paying;and you may very much want to see a shift in the paradigm to where paying for these things becomes tradition - but that is simply not the case now, and likely will never be, unless the game currency were so devalued that it didn't matter for people to spend it on entertainment they might or might not like.

All your arguments are predicated on what you think SHOULD be, but not on what actually is.

coco

Coco, much as you make some valid points, I have to disagree with you on your presumption that people will not pay to attend events in SL. I think the more appropriate statement is that people will not pay to attend yet another thong contest in a club playing music they don't like.

People can and will pay for entertainment that holds value for them. I will pay for admission anytime and anyplace my favorite DJ's are spinning, because I know the music will be great and the crowd will be fun.

People only part with money to the extent that they consider the value of the investment. When you pay for your DSL or cable each month, you do so because those things provide a value that you have decided is worthy of your wallet. All entertainment is a luxury, not a necessity. You get what you are willing to pay for and $6 a month to provide you with $500L a week and 512m of land is one of the best entertainment deals going. Try getting HBO for that amount.

I don't know the answer to "how do we get more money to folks who are providing income for newbies". But, I don't think the answer is in handing out event subsidies like candy. Linden Labs is a business, they have overhead. 20,000 users on a basic account nets them a whopping $200,000 US. That probably is barely enough cover one month of LL payroll, utilities and bandwidth. Everyone's Second Life is being paid for by premium members and land owners paying tier, those are the cold hard facts. Please note that I am not making any good/bad opinions, merely pointing out facts. In purely business parlance, it is not in LL's best interest to provide long term cash flow to basic level residents. I am NOT bashing those on a basic account, just pointing out the financial realities of business.

I am not intending to ignite a flame war about who's more valuable and contributes more. There needs to be entertainment in SL, the proper discussion for us to be having is how do we support it without assistance from LL. This is a creative community, surely we can come up with better ideas than government subsidies.

Why you cant make people pay to enter clubs/events

People with shit loads of money in real life will do them for FREE for no other reason than to be in that top 20 most popular.

Why is it that nobody understands this? Why is it that nobody understands that event support was the equalizer in Second Life?

Event support allowed EVERYONE to compete on and equal footing.

When event support was stripped away then those who could NOT afford to pour real life money into this game got shafted big time.

Now you need to look at what I've written above because thats the crux of the WHOLE situation here. People with little plots of land could compete with the big clubs because they had that prize money, this meant that many many good events were held by people for the LOVE of hosting events and not because they wanted dwell and those events were attended because big or small EVERYONE could compete.

Now - I dont expect you to take my word for this, but I proved it.

My club went to the very top - we didnt offer you L$1000 money balls,we didnt offer you free prizes just for walking in the door, we did events with $250 for each winner and a lot of fun and it worked because people LOVE a good time and a laugh!

We had places offering L$1000 every 30 minutes who could not displace us but we CANT afford our land tier, our streaming fee's AND to trundle onto GOM every day for prize money for events.

There are hundreds of players in Second Life NOW who stayed here because of that great time they had at clubs like mine - we have been accused time & time again of contributing nothing to Second Life and I find that fkin insulting.Linden Labs would not support us and we kept a hell of a lot of people here AND we made premium players out of a lot of them too.

Events have gone to pot because the proffesional event hosts dont DO them any more - its THAT simple folks.

Ok, there is a mass assumption here that all of us who are actually trying to WIN this game by getting a developer's award go out to IGE or GOM every time we have an event. It just not true.

All of the prize monies given out, all of the monies through free play slots and all of the monies giving out through my money ball are paid for by the retailers and tenants of Night Mountain through their respective rents. Not once have I even the desire to go out to either IGE or GOM to support my events. If my cash was running low, I would off on event.

Yes, I went out IGE in order to purchase 95% percent of my land. So what? Does that make me despicable? No, though some would like to think otherwise.

I welcome everyone to Night Mountain to enjoy the fruits of my labor. I don't care if they are newbies or old timers, lifers or monthlies, land barons or landless. Come one and come all. Enjoy and share in the wealth that is Night Mountain. Enjoy the generous incentives, enjoy the build, enjoy the atrium, the shops, the casino or the condominiums.

I look at ever visitor as a well placed investment and welcome you with open arms.

To paraphrase: Bribary, for the lack of a better term, is good.

1. Well, Isablan, list me some entertainment things people HAVE paid to attend in SL. I haven't been in SL long enough to know of any. I know in TSO, only David Pierce's plays managed to do that. (And truth be told, it was really for only those citiSims who already had plenty of discretionary money and enjoyed being part of community culture. Kind of like people holding season tickets to the ballet irl.)

All this sounds terrific theoretically, but show me some concrete examples of it actually working in the game? Then I can begin to analyze what it was about those events that allowed charging to work, and how people could use that knowledge to their advantage in successfully charging admission for events. Are there any examples?

2. I can say I would be happy to pay to attend Captions, because believe me, it is worth it. I can SAY that. But if he started charging for it, his attendance would probably drop off quite a bit. (Though if he keeps getting more and more people coming, he may WANT to charge, just to keep the numbers reasonable, lol!)

But in point of fact, I would have to consider carefully whether I wanted to spend $10 on that entertainment, or whether I needed more to be thrifty.

Plus, how do you begin? If you begin a venture with a cover charge, then nobody yet knows how terrific it is. So nobody is going to pay for a pig in a poke.

I can SAY I would pay to go to the fair - I forget its name, but I talked about it on my own thread in the General Forum - because that would be well worth it.. But others wouldn't even go to see if it WAS worth it in the first place. And in point of fact, I sure wouldn't go back at the drop of a hat to show it to friends. I would go once, stay quite a while, and that would be basically it.

3. Even so, all this isn't even taking into consideration what Sox mentions - which is, those with the dough are not going to charge for anything.

Then there's the fact that some people don't even LIKE to charge, even if they do have the dough. In TSO, for instance, I always felt more like a hostess - I would never dream of charging anyone for anything I provided. It highlighted the dichotomy there - as exists here - between people who view the game more as a game, and their land in it as their "house," and their events in it as their "parties," versus those who view it in more rl business terms.

People trying to roleplay hotels and restaurants in TSO, for instance, never got anywhere with it, despite how well they did it, because people just would not pay for what they could either get for free or go without. So though there is nothing wrong with either game view, it appears that the vast majority of players tend toward the "game/house/party" view than the "real life business" view. People always WILL, however, spend hard-earned Simoleons or Lindens for a new hot tub.

4. Another reason you can't charge for entertainment, I think, is that people feel they already pay for the game, and thus don't expect to pay further for entertainment within it, particularly when there are so many ways they can entertain themselves - with their friends, with building, with free events, and on and on and on - that they never need set foot in a pay-to-enter place. They are already paying for entertainment that holds value to them (the game). Why pay for entertainment again, within that entertainment, which so much free entertainment within it is available? I think that mindset is at play, and always will be. Because it is a game, for most players, and not a business or some kind of school of hard knocks.

5. I don't think the Lindens giving event subsidies has any impact on their rl bottom line. It isn't real money. The reason they removed the event subsidies was to keep too much game money from entering the game, and controlling inflation that way. But I think its evident that the cost in terms of fun far outweighs the benefit of being a control on inflation, and that WILL have an impact on their bottom line - a detrimental one. Limiting fun is the first thing you don't do if you're making an online game, .

Remember, it is not the LINDENS who are providing this entertainment for us within the game, anymore than it is their rl money that provided the funding for it. It is other players providing the entertainment, and other players who have been less able to do so since the withdrawal of funding and the more constraining rules regarding the events calendar. Equals - less fun, fewer choices.

6. Entertainment is not a luxury in any online game. It is the primary purpose for joining an online game. The Lindens should encourage all events, and make it so anyone can hold them - not just big land or clubowners, or people who spend a lot of money on GOM, or whatever. That way leads to a lack of variety. It is not necessarily true that the best entertainment and the most fun for other players is always provided by those with enough money to patronize GOM, or those who are such good scripters and builders or land-dealers that they have lots of in-game money. (Possible exceptions such as Timmy Night notwithstanding.)

The entertainers are providing a service and free labor to the Lindens when they provide entertainment CONTENT to the game. This should be encouraged, not made harder or more restricted.

7. I don't really see how land-owners versus non-land owners, or premium versus basic members, has anything to do with Linden overhead. I don't think this discussion about funding (and the calendar) really has much of anything to do with basic versus premium members, or even giving prize money, for that matter. All I can think you mean is that event hosting should naturally go to those who already pay the most real life money to the Lindens in tier or at least premium memberships?

I can see that point, if that is what you mean, sort of. But the new regime seems to be harming mainly premium, land-owning, and tier playing members! I really don't notice any other basic members aside from myself trying to make hosting events easier. I only lobby for it because I was in the entertainment business in TSO and know what it takes and who will pay for what, and because I know that even a regular premium member - who DOESN'T buy money from GOM or earn oodles of money from selling objects and scripts - has a hard enough time hosting events without funding being cut and the calendar being restricted.

My second objection to that point (if I understood the point correctly) is it restricts creativity and thus harms LL more in the long term. If a premium member who doesn't buy money from GOM and can't build and can't script has some kind of terrific idea, why not give them $500 to cover expenses, pay hirees, and maybe offer modest prizes, as well as let them post it on the calendar? Ditto a basic member. These smaller players, both premium and basic, also have a lot of creativity and ideas to add to the game, given any incentive to do so, rather than handicaps to doing so.

8. Others have said the same thing I am saying only with a lot fewer words. I wish I could! That's why I'm married to a man who can cut to the meat of anything in 25 words or less, lol. Somebody up there said all this in a series of short paragraphs already (whoever it was who said "more events = good = fun!" or something to that effect).

It's all about the fun - or should be. We need fun! We're here for fun! Of course, any game needs to balance the efforts required of players versus the rewards. If things are too easy, the game will be boring. But if they are too constricting, too punitive - especially toward certain groups - then it won't be fun anymore. Right now, I think the balance is too much toward the punitive side, especially for newer players, non-scripting/building/land-dealing players, and those without a lot of rl money to spend on the game.

coco

Coco, you miss some of my point but I also see what you are saying. I didn’t say there was a working model for paid attendance yet, just that I know I would pay for certain events and I doubt that I am alone in this.

My larger point was that LL has told us repeatedly that this is “our world”, which means that we have to find a way to live in it, love in it, make money in it and manage it. They want as little intervention as possible on their end. Running a club is running a business; running a business takes a business plan and some entrepreneurial ability. In order to make a club work in SL without LL subsidies, you have to either A) be willing to personally fund the venture for your own amusement or B) find income sources to match your expenses. Any club that is operating in SL at this point is using one of those two plans.

If you are not willing to fund plan A personally, then you have to use your creative abilities and figure out what your average expenses are, then figure out a way to generate income to cover them.

To break it out further:

Let’s say you want to hold 10 events a week with a money ball/prize money. Let’s say each of those events needs L$300 in cash. Let us also assume that you’ve realized that your event host and DJ need to work for tips, (which merely entails someone shouting out every 20 minutes for everyone to remember to tip the DJ and the host.) So, you look at ways to bring in income to cover the L$3000 that you need to run events this week. Ideas (of which I have only a few and others will be coming up with more before they finish reading this sentence):

• Add a small mall onto the side of your club and charge for vending space
• Add an area off to the side of your dance floor that becomes retail space, and charge for it
• Sell advertising space in the club for sponsors
• Have specially sponsored events, like a automobile vendor who displays his/her wares during the event
• Have fashion sponsored events to showcase bling, hair, clothes, skins, etc…
• Ask your event attendees to contribute to the prize pot

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head; there are tons more out there. This also means knowing who your customers are. If your crowd is into bling and hair, then you know what sponsors to go after. If they are mostly newbies, you know not to bring in vendors with high priced items. If you are doing the goth/vampire thing, then you know which vendors are going to sell well with your people.

Maybe you realize you can only hold 5 events a week based on income you can bring in to cover expenses; in the end, you are running a business and keeping the doors open requires you to balance expenses and income. You can whine all you want about LL removing event subsidies, but the bottom line is that it is up to you, the business owner, to figure out now to make your business successful.

After you have detailed it, I understand the theory.

But - there is no way to make a profit from providing entertainment, where there is a way to make a profit from providing items/scripts. Because - to use shorthand - you can't charge for drinks. Drinking isn't necessary, though it is "necessary" irl, whereas items and scripts are, just as they are irl. So I guess I would say events and entertainment can't really be classified as businesses in the first place in SL, even though they are irl.

coco

Coco, I will go even one step further. First, profit or no profit, a business is still a business

The entertainment business in RL operates on two primary business models: subscription and sponsorship. The subscription model is used by entities like HBO, satellite radio, pay-per-view, first run movies in theatres, basically any entertainment content you pay for directly. The rest of “free” entertainment runs on the sponsorship business model, which means that your entertainment has been paid for by someone who wants to sell you something. Anytime you turn on the radio or television, you are hearing/seeing content that is sponsored. The music that you enjoy coming out of your radio has been paid for by advertisers and record labels who want to sell you their products. In order to enjoy the content provided by TV, you have to sit through ads from the companies that have chosen to sponsor that show.

There is a third business model, which is one of grants and underwriting, usually only seen on PBS or certain “arts and culture” channels.

SL entertainment used to enjoy the business model of grants and underwriting, but that system is now gone, which means that entertainment providers must move to either the subscription or sponsorship business model. I think it also probable that there are a few successful business owners in SL that might be willing to underwrite expenses of a club that proved to be a good vending partnership for them…..

The sponsorship model is a partnership between a seller and someone who can provide the right demographic that the seller is looking for. Sellers who have a very strong brand frequently sponsor just to keep their logo in front of people, introduce new products; and new players in the market will sponsor to start building their brand recognition. As sellers looking to advertise in SL become more advanced, they will start looking for demographics. The way you figure out your demographics in SL is to look around your club on a busy night. Look at hair, clothes, bling, jewelry, shoes, tats, eyes, skins, attachments, custom AV’s, how many are using dance bracelets vs. the dance machine…. If the girls are mostly into slutwear, then you know which vendors go after. If most of your people are nakie, then there are some obvious vendors to work out sponsorship deals with there too Look at profiles, a high number of couples would probably indicate homesteads, which leads you to furniture. Look at the forum classifieds in New Products listings, many of those new products could use some exposure to large groups of people.

Lastly, always put your music format in your event listing. People will show up for music they like, irregardless of money balls or prizes. People WILL come just for the music, if you are playing something enough of them like.

Ok, that makes sense. Give me some time to read it more and think about it.

coco

Why is it that people who have never run events, have no interest in running them, and rarely or never attend them, care about what LL subsidizes or doesn't subsidize in regard to them?

Assuming that LL will see that events are the infrastructure of the socialization that occurs at SL, and that this socialization is incredibly important to their customer base, why WOULDN'T they invest in it, the way Timmy invests in his customers?

It is true that sophisticated marketing techniques (ones that emphasize people rather than paper marketing and community / relationship building) will eventually create greater desire among 3d content makers to partner with events hosts and venues. We are a long way from that in-world (speaking as one who teaches marketing in-game).

In the meantime, it is simply not in LLs or SLs best interests to see event hosting disappear as a viable form of employment, or event attending disappear as a viable form of socialization. We need social venues in SL. Without them, communities simply have a much more difficult time happening and growing.

If subsidies are not returned, dwell must be increased to pay for the costs of events venues. Chip, something to keep in mind is that for most of us (and we at the spa made it to #40 on the traffic list, so we are definitely seeing some dwell) for most of us, dwell payments Might pay teir. It certainly will not pay staff AND teir. For me it covers the full costs of neither.

In my country, there are places and events that are run by the government.

There are more reasons to why, but one big reason is 'attracting tourists'. Because if tourists come they'll spend money in the country and make it richer, and possibly generate even more revenue than has been invested in events.

So, this is a win-win for all. The ones doing cultural and other events get subsidies, so they can do their event -- though of course most of the time the government only subsidises part of it, sponsors have to come, too. They might do it for fun, too, or out of a personal mission, 'hobby.

The tourist wins because even though he spends this and that, he comes mainly to see the places and events (that have been subsidized by the government).

The country (government) wins, because of more work, jobs and more cash inflowing.


I think the exact same thing could be applied to SL, too. Subsidized events generate (indirectly) subscribers and revenue for Linden Labs.

I'm SO glad someone else gets it.

I'll tell you why they care about LL subsidising events, because even though some of these people have well over L$100,000 they begrudge you making $250 for an event because you dont do it either by scripting or by using photoshop and its THAT simple.

As to Dwell you've hit the nail on the head. Dwell incentive should include L$ as well as real $ and it needs to be raised.



As I've said time and time again there are hundreds & hundreds of people in SL today who stayed here BECAUSE their first port of call was a club & because of the social interaction they found there,now, WE sold SL to these people - WE got them interested enough to stay and if Linden Labs cannot support that fact then something somewhere is wrong.