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Open letter to the owner of slstats.com |
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Belaya Statosky
Information Retrieval
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 552
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08-05-2006 11:45
2006
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-05-2006 11:45
you need to read the edited post... because someone could get your information walking past you if it was easy enough. If it was possible to do easily... it would be done. ok how's your stand on security cameras? It's a moot point, though I would object to the cam's images being publically available on the WWW. However, we're talking about the watch gathering stats. Let's try to stay on topic. _____________________
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-05-2006 11:45
Mark has a light sense of humor. It's nice to see that the pitchforks and torches come out to such people.  His "sense of humor" exactly matches the "humor" in this thread. :rollseyes: As for that comment, he seems to be stating that people who object are unaware that the information collected on them is already available, innoculous in the first place, and their consent not required. Sorry I itemized for him what info isn't readily available. Don't bother bullshitting me. I'm not tech ignorant. |
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-05-2006 11:46
you need to read the edited post... because someone could get your information walking past you if it was easy enough. If it was possible to do easily... it would be done. _____________________
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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08-05-2006 11:47
Just because you think something is useless doesn't mean others won't find it entertaining. Slow down tiger... you said Mark said it was useless. I am trying to give this a fair shake before I decide to get on board or opt out or not give a crap either way. _____________________
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! I put on my robe and wizard ha... Oh. Nevermind then. |
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Dragon Keen
Registered User
Join date: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 245
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08-05-2006 11:48
I object. And I am a tech. Which is partially WHY I object - I hate spyware. if your a tech you'd know its called datamining and not spyware correct? spyware is a built in feature unpublicized - where the SLStats watch is very publicized Chronic the security camera analogy IS on topic... it shows datamining occurs daily in real life without people knowing about it... but no one bitches there, only in a game they bitch and the data's even more trivial Im not saying its OK to do... but it IS done. and the SLStats watch is kinda really pointless it doesnt do much of anything but give someone something to play with. BUt we're all entitled to opinions... if ya dont like it, opt-out... but theres not much else to do |
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Kalia Meiklejohn
You make me itch
Join date: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 258
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08-05-2006 11:50
I just checked, and I'm there.
I don't care much, I'm just surprised. What I want to know is: what does SL Score mean? |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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08-05-2006 11:50
Slow down tiger... you said Mark said it was useless. I am trying to give this a fair shake before I decide to get on board or opt out or not give a crap either way. Alright, true. Currently it is useless, outside of the site's own ratings system. As for the future possibilities of such a service, though, it has a lot of potential. |
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-05-2006 11:50
if your a tech you'd know its called datamining and not spyware correct? spyware is a built in feature unpublicized - where the SLStats watch is very publicized _____________________
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
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Rickel Petion
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 58
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08-05-2006 11:51
if your a tech you'd know its called datamining and not spyware correct? spyware is a built in feature unpublicized - where the SLStats watch is very publicized That would depend on perspective now wouldn't it.. Datamining for all who wear the watch, spyware for everybody who isn't aware of the feature in the watch the person they are talking with is wearing. |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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08-05-2006 11:51
<grins> Considering how many people screamed at me when the now defunct SLDrama.com site went up, I can't help but be amused!
"How dare you STEAL my ID key! I did not give you permission to use it! You are a monster!" <grins evilly> You have no idea how much I wanted to reply to all of them with a snide remark and a flipping off. They clicked on the prim to register. They KNEW it was going to do something to ID them, and they still screamed when they heard the word KEY. Not one of them asked nicly. Not one said anything remotely polite. Many used profanity. So, after that run-in with them, I can't help but snort at this. Give them their opt out option. In fact... Make a LIST of opt outers! Pass it around and automotically opt them out of everything! Er... Wait... Hmnnnn... <grins> |
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-05-2006 11:53
if your a tech you'd know its called datamining and not spyware correct? spyware is a built in feature unpublicized - where the SLStats watch is very publicized 1. If you were tech YOU would know data mining is getting patterns from existing data. NOT gathering that data. 2. I do agree it's not spyware since it doesn't infect my wrist without my knowledge. 3 NOT well publicized I was listed on that site before I found out about it through complaints about it in SL Answers. |
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-05-2006 11:54
Chronic the security camera analogy IS on topic... it shows datamining occurs daily in real life without people knowing about it... but no one bitches there, only in a game they bitch and the data's even more trivial IN YOUR OPINION, the data is trivial. In the opinion of others, it is not. If security cams publically posted my picture on a website daily, showed who I was with, etc., then yeah - I would likely bitch about it. I find it bizarre and quite sad how the people who do not want to be tracked by yet another device in their lives (and now their Second lives) are being insulted and laughed at in this thread. _____________________
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-05-2006 11:57
Give them their opt out option. In fact... Make a LIST of opt outers! Pass it around... _____________________
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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08-05-2006 12:07
Oh jesus, I just realised I broke the first rule of spam - NEVER, EVER click on the opt-out link. Because they do exactly that.  Glad I could help! |
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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08-05-2006 12:10
Taking Torley's response and knowing what I do about SL my thought is this:
I dont see how this info can be used by advertisers. My key does not contain my email. If someone starts hounding me with sale notes in game that I am not interested in I will place them on iggy. I get notecards often for clubs I have never been to (not a clubber) or sales from people I have purchased from. When an IM channel in a group gets to be to spammy or irritates me I leave said group. This all well before a wristwatch came into being. Not one of them asked nicly. Not one said anything remotely polite. Many used profanity. This is the key. Obviosly Mark is dealing with tons of hate letters right now. He is likely jaded and upset as Foolish was. Obviosly there are those who are not going to feel comfortable about this info, however small or large being put on a website. As a total outsider may I suggest Mark make the opt out easy and not so "humor" filled and if you do not agree with this tracking watch go opt out and put the "pitch forks" down? This just seems like a lot of arguing over something that can be pretty easily fixed on both sides.  BTW.. dont forget any publicity is good publicity. All this just got slstats tons of hits on the site I am sure. _____________________
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! I put on my robe and wizard ha... Oh. Nevermind then. |
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Joe Foo
Registered User
Join date: 7 Mar 2004
Posts: 51
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08-05-2006 12:39
When SL opens up, anyone with sufficient coding skill could write a client that gathers orders of magnitude more data than what LSL can provide. Such a thing could record anything that you can see, read, or hear when you use SL.
For example: - name - avatar key - current group - partner - join date - ratings - 2nd life picture and profile text - all the options and strings on your interests tab - all of your picks, the images, description text, and location info - your 1st life picture and profile - anybody in proximity to you - which direction you're facing - who you are looking towards when you say something in local chat - what you say in local chat - any sounds, gestures, or animations you played - current clothing textures worn - number, shape, and placement of attachments - contents of each attachment - the name of the plot you're hanging out in - what plots of land are owned by whom, and all the info in the About Land panel Best learn to live with this kind of thing now, because this is probably just the beginning. |
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Rickel Petion
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 58
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08-05-2006 12:44
Best learn to live with this kind of thing now, because this is probably just the beginning. Why? Why not just say no and make sure it is enforced? |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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08-05-2006 12:49
Why? Why not just say no and make sure it is enforced? He means that once the SL protocols have all been reverse engineered and we have a completely OS client, people will be able to gather this information, and LL won't be able to stop them. As for posting it to 3rd party sites, that is stoppable. Conversations between resi's are clearly off-limits for disclosure. Profile information is perfectly fine. As for avatar attachments, appearance, etc.. Considering people already post pictures on SnapZilla and such, I'd assume that's fine as well. Mmmm, avatar attachments. Tee hee.  |
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Wrom Morrison
Validated User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 462
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08-05-2006 13:04
Why is Torley all of a sudden a spokeperson for Mark Barrett, and why are some of you assuming that what Torley posted was her own view and words?
What Mark Barrett wrote that people fail to quote: Female Second Lifers are probably more sensitive to these issues; stalking, harassing and other types of abuse are very much a concern for me, but I wasn't aware of it happening or being so prevalent. I am definitely not just shrugging something like that off, because it does affect real people's real lives, no matter how "virtual" it may appear to be. I can see how ugly this site can get in a few weeks. Given the amount of drama that's in SL. Imagine all the Gorean Masters tracking their ex-slaves via this. Oh teh humanity? Can I add a furry and age-player to this somehow? |
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Joe Foo
Registered User
Join date: 7 Mar 2004
Posts: 51
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08-05-2006 13:04
Conversations between resi's are clearly off-limits for disclosure. LL can not do anything about transcripts posted elsewhere on the Internet becuase they do not know the real identity of the posters. The same would go for any data aggregation site. |
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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08-05-2006 13:06
<SNIPPED> spyware is a built in feature unpublicized - where the SLStats watch is very publicized Chronic the security camera analogy IS on topic... it shows datamining occurs daily in real life without people knowing about it... but no one bitches there, only in a game they bitch and the data's even more trivial Im not saying its OK to do... but it IS done. and the SLStats watch is kinda really pointless it doesnt do much of anything but give someone something to play with. BUt we're all entitled to opinions... if ya dont like it, opt-out... but theres not much else to do The first i heard of the site was when i was browsing the forums and cannot find it in Search as of 12.59pm SL Time On CCTV images, certainly now in the UK they are covered under the Data Protection Act and there are some very strict rules and laws in place as to who has access to the images/info and how people can view whats available on them. Future uses for SLstats are going to be considerable as SL expands and grows, now is a great time to perfect the scripting and engine for the data collecting for the company/creator behind the project to be able to sell it in a few years time when SL has changed beyond what we are seeing here, or to have a very lucrative data business started several years ago with a silly little watch Peace |
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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08-05-2006 13:25
why are some of you assuming that what Torley posted was her own view and words? Being I wrote that I weighed Torley's response in with what I gathered on the situation I will tell you where I made such an assumption. Torley also wrote: Merged. Let's diffuse the noise and get to the key points here: * If you haven't already, please do forum searches dating several years back about similar privacy concerns involving Resident-run databases. By far and large, they were unfounded, and due to a misunderstanding of the technology involved. Having someone's UUID (Universally Unique Identifier) is *not* the same as knowing personal and private info about them, such as their credit card number. Far from it. * Mark Barrett has been openly communicative about his work on SLstats to myself and others. Is it really so hard to ask Mark first to gain a better understanding, since... he made it? ^.^ * As you already know, Mark says making an OPT-OUT choice. I've been keeping in touch with him about this, and will be certain to let him know if anything he does is in violation of the Community Standards. So far, I've seen no evidence of this. I hope this makes things more comfy. Let's look at the positives: I am seeing incredible progress in social networking from Resident-run sites. While privacy concerns are important, it's also important not to let them detract from good people coming together and doing great things. In addition, I've asked Mark that should he wish to post a statement on here, that he can do it through me and I'll be certain it gets heard. Can you imagine what this looks like in hindsight? *big smile* __________________ _____________________
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! I put on my robe and wizard ha... Oh. Nevermind then. |
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Giddeon Charming
The One and Only
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 30
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08-05-2006 13:30
If you dont like it, opt out. What is the bfd? OMG now someone is going to know I was in the same proximity as someone else! *dies
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Alex Fitzsimmons
Resu Deretsiger
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
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08-05-2006 13:36
A whole world of things people should be paranoid about (dare I mention the Patriot Act as just one?), and people are paranoid about this silly thing instead.
Give me a break. _____________________
"Whatever the astronomers finally decide, I think Xena should be considered the enemy planet." - io Kukalcan
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