Open letter to the owner of slstats.com
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:22
From: nimrod Yaffle You talk like you think there's privacy in SL. And you talk like storing personal data and cross-reference for statistical purposes (along with whatever else occurs to the author along the way) is somehow equal with random person's ability to occasionally see you in one place or another...
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Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
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08-06-2006 15:23
From: Joannah Cramer Source of this information? because i don't see anything on the slstats page in the changes log about removal of scanning for presence of other people ( http://slstats.com/site/how/) And if am to feel sorry someone choose to stay up until morning because they were silly enough to not foresee the obvious negative reactions to their half-baked idea, then try again. Source: The horses' mouth. Come to Huin 151, 200, 121 and ask him yourself. And half-baked? SLStats is a great technical project, but bitchy people are always a variable.
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Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus. Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower. Japanese Jesus, where are you? Pragmatic!
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 15:26
From: Joannah Cramer And you talk like storing personal data and cross-reference for statistical purposes (along with whatever else occurs to the author along the way) is somehow equal with random person's ability to occasionally see you in one place or another... Hint: Tracking with Godmode.
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Berri Fardel
Registered User
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
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08-06-2006 15:26
From: nimrod Yaffle Crap, I guess it exposes stalkers too! Sorry about that! >_> Are you saying you are a stalker? All I was saying is that it is not just friends that are gathering information. It is anyone that is around a person wearing the watch not friends gathing information on friends. Are you now saying that no information is gathered on anyone to someone that is wearing the watch that has not opted in?
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Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
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08-06-2006 15:28
From: Berri Fardel Are you now saying that no information is gathered on anyone to someone that is wearing the watch that has not opted in?
If by that you mean "does it only collect info on peopel that've opted in" then yes.
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Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus. Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower. Japanese Jesus, where are you? Pragmatic!
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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08-06-2006 15:29
From: nimrod Yaffle Besides the fact that LL didn't give him the info, they can if they wanted to. But god damn, stop whining, he fixed it. Im not whining roflmao you obviuosly dont know me, however iam just stating the facts and giving my opinion to something someone has said. I love change as ive been online 27 yrs and have seen some fantastic changes on the net, SL being one of them from the days i first journeyed here in '03 ( some of the moaners then are still here so no changing human nature eh  ) What i do object to is opt out systems that gather data without ur knowledge or consent, yes i no all the, ur online etc. things u r gonna say but dunno about you but if im gonna stay and ride theses changes out here i dont want to be spammed a few months down the road because of data Mr B has collected on me now because i didnt say nething about it at the time, his way of introducing the site and concept were lacking in sense imho as were some of his posts to other people here. To me alarm bells rang and spammer sprungs to mind, not now not mayb even in 6mths, but oneday all the info will be sold i wud be happy to put L$ on that, human nature is so predictable. You look an intelligent bloke from ur RL pic  What do u think he is going to do with all the data he will have collected as his site grows and changes to become SLs most usefull stats site he is collating data that will be an advertisers wet dream in the future, hes gonna have to pay for hosting domain names etc etc and he doesnt strike me as a philanthropic kinda guy. I wish him success with his site and data collection in whatever form u and others wish to see it, for me i think i will watch with interest  Peace
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:29
From: Jesse Malthus Source: The horses' mouth. Come to Huin 151, 200, 121 and ask him yourself. No, sorry, until i see that on the guy's website the source is strictly you. And since it's not *my* project, i shouldn't be the one jumping through hoops to find out about its inner workings. From: someone And half-baked? SLStats is a great technical project, but bitchy people are always a variable. What *exactly* is so great about it? It's a short range scanner operating on short interval with database backend. I have yet to see someone (author included) post any concrete ideas what it can be used for. Aside from things which were already implemented in SL and failed miserably due to human factor (ratings) Really. By all means, please enlighten me (and seemingly Mark as well) what great can be done with it.
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Fmeh Tagore
Just another fat guy
Join date: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 670
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08-06-2006 15:30
I am potentially saying something that could have already been said--I skipped 7 pages of this really really long thread--so, having said that:
What I find interesting about this whole thing is that slstats is available to the public. Ever wonder what sorts of other things are out there that are kept private between, for instance, griefers? Ever wonder how many more of these types of things are out there that you can't opt out of because you don't even know they exist? I think people should be a little more appreciative of slstats because they have shown us what types of things people can be doing, and obviously there are people who may do this type of thing to gain access to info that they can use to grief people.
This whole thing, to me, just proves that privacy is really not something people can count on in an online world environment, unless of course, the Lindens decide to build their own cheatblock/spyware/whatever-you-want-to-call-it into their software that disallows anyone else from doing the same, and then people would be mad at the lindens for doing that.
Either accept that there is no such thing as privacy in this type of environment, or push for the lindens to put a cheatblock/spyware type of thing into their software (which I don't support simply for the fact that it would lower the framerate). Anything else is simply whine whine b!tch b!tch nag nag.
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Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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08-06-2006 15:30
From: Jesse Malthus Well, you all can stop bitching, because it's now opt in only, even to view the data. Mark stayed up until 8a this morning to apease you, be happy, rejoyce. Not strictly opt-in to view the data. Try these URLs: http://slstats.com/user/ratings/Pixeleen%20Mistral http://slstats.com/user/ratings/Prokofy%20Neva http://slstats.com/user/ratings/Tyken%20Hightowerwhich raises some questions about the level of security at the site...
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:31
From: nimrod Yaffle Hint: Tracking with Godmode. Hint: has nothing to do with storing personal data SL-wide and cross-reference for statistical purposes. Apples and oranges.
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Rickel Petion
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 58
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08-06-2006 15:32
Just got confirmation from a friend who kept track of the slstats.com service for me, the names of contacts that are not willing and/or knowing participants have been removed from the site, even to logged in users of slstats.com.
Thank you Mark, I am truly thankfull to you for all your hard work on this.
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Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
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08-06-2006 15:34
I'm logged into the site, so of course I can see them.
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Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus. Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower. Japanese Jesus, where are you? Pragmatic!
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:36
From: Jesse Malthus I'm logged into the site, so of course I can see them. Well, am not yet not so "of course" can see them as well...
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-06-2006 15:37
At this point the website only displays info on people who've opted-in with a watch. I verified it myself with an alt. From: Joannah Cramer because i don't see anything on the slstats page in the changes log about removal of scanning for presence of other people The scanning wasn't removed. There is no way he can only for opt-in's, he can only filter the data after the scan.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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08-06-2006 15:40
From: Jesse Malthus I'm logged into the site, so of course I can see them. I'm not logged in, and I can see them too.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 15:41
Nevermind, I value my life. Ignore this post 
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Merlyn Bailly
owner, AVALON GALLERIA
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 576
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08-06-2006 15:42
From: Rickel Petion This is an open letter that I wrote to the owner of slstats.com's owner, I really feel that this should be open because of what it is he is doing and that the general SL public has a right to know what he is recording from SL into his 3rd party database, that is publicly available, without their consent.
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Hi there,
This is in a sense not a hate mail but a suggestion how to avoid it. The outrageous feature that most people are going to react and are reacting against of your "service" That's not a sentence, and makes no sense. Try again.
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SL used to be a game -- now it's a corporate advertising/marketing platform.
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 15:43
From: Merlyn Bailly That's not a sentence, and makes no sense.
Try again. Oh man, if you're complaining about that, you should see some of the other posts here.
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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08-06-2006 15:44
From: Jesse Malthus I'm logged into the site, so of course I can see them. I'm NOT logged into the site and I can see them. I never opted into this service, so I am surprised that I'm there, and I still wonder about how this all relates to Linden's "informed consent" ethics guidelines for researchers. By the way, poor SNOOPY still has no friends, but that is being worked on. http://slstats.com/user/ratings/SNOOPYbrown%20ZamboniThese URLs do give people who want to see if opt out worked a way to check. But opt-out is completely backwards for this sort of a site...
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-06-2006 15:44
From: Jon Rolland At this point the website only displays info on people who've opted-in with a watch. I verified it myself with an alt.
The scanning wasn't removed. There is no way he can only for opt-in's, he can only filter the data after the scan. It would be perfectly siimple for SLStats.com to only report information on other watch wearers, even with the current scanning method. If scanned names are not current subscribers, filter those names out. If he can't handle a simple task like that, he shouldn't be making his experiments publicly available. Even simpler would be to scan for other users by transmitting a request that is only answered by other watches in the scanning range, and which replies with the key of the wearer. If he had done THAT in the first place, none of this fuss would have happened in the first place, as the site would only report on people who voluntarily agreed to be tracked.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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08-06-2006 15:45
From: Merlyn Bailly That's not a sentence, and makes no sense. Try again. You know what makes no sense? 525 posts, all of them belittling someone.
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-06-2006 15:47
From: Ceera Murakami It would be perfectly siimple for SLStats.com to only report information on other watch wearers, even with the current scanning method. If scanned names are not current subscribers, filter those names out. If he can't handle a simple task like that, he shouldn't be making his experiments publicly available. It does filter those names out.
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 15:49
Fade, you deleted your post! 
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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08-06-2006 15:51
From: nimrod Yaffle Fade, you deleted your post!  Oh sorry... I've been up all night, I've had a shit day, and I wasn't sure if I should be saying what I said... out loud anyway...
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:52
From: Jon Rolland The scanning wasn't removed. There is no way he can only for opt-in's, he can only filter the data after the scan. Data can be filtered easily with watch 'handshake' between owner of scanning watch and the scanned person, before they are sent to destination. No response from contact's watch, they are either not part of program or decided to not use their watch for whatever reason. I mean, this is frickin' basics. Even dong attachment makers know how to do that? :/
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