Open letter to the owner of slstats.com
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-06-2006 13:40
From: Maklin Deckard It comes off (the way it was done I mean) as extreme favoritism...a linden shilling for a third party site and at the owners beck and call. I really don't think that was intended. I suspect they just wanted to be able to post the answer in that thread since that was where the question was asked, and only a Linden could have posted there.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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08-06-2006 13:42
From: Lost Newcomb This site is actually run by IGE.
Wasn't it obvious enough?
What is IGE doing in SL? I have no clue. How do you know it is run by IGE?
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 13:51
From: Lost Newcomb This site is actually run by IGE.
Wasn't it obvious enough?
What is IGE doing in SL? I have no clue. Wow, that was totally random and has no basis of fact to it. 
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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08-06-2006 14:00
We can't detect attachments, can we? Can't ban people on the basis of attachment names, keys, or creator keys.
Might should be able to.
At any rate I have some of the opt out things, I should be able to give them to people, in theory. They might still work.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to
http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne
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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.
Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan
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Rickel Petion
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 58
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08-06-2006 14:02
From: SuezanneC Baskerville We can't detect attachments, can we? Can't ban people on the basis of attachment names, keys, or creator keys. I think attachment detecting is limited to number of attachments only but I could be wrong.. EDIT: From: LSL Wiki Q: Can I use sensors to detect attachments? A: No, but you can use llGetAgentInfo to determine whether or not an avatar has attachments, and whether or not they're scripted, though not how many attachments they have, where they're attached, nor what they are.
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Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
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08-06-2006 14:04
From: SuezanneC Baskerville We can't detect attachments, can we? Can't ban people on the basis of attachment names, keys, or creator keys.
Might should be able to.
At any rate I have some of the opt out things, I should be able to give them to people, in theory. They might still work. Attatchments are something I'd like to be able to ban on. For example, I'm planning on building a model of my school, and I want to block gun attachments.
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Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus. Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower. Japanese Jesus, where are you? Pragmatic!
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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08-06-2006 14:26
From: Ordinal Malaprop I note that the "privacy policy" link makes no mention of the opt-out and, at the time of writing, the "about" page makes a number of sneery references and is full of "well you're just going to have to get used to this" language. That has pretty much hardened my attitude towards this site. Couple that with the fact he has the site registered at www.domainsbyproxy.com whos front page suggests a private rather than a public registration to avoid: " Display your domain name - not your personal information Did you know that for each domain name you register, anyone - anywhere, anytime - can find out your name, home address, phone number and email address? The law requires that the personal information you provide with every domain you register be made public in the "WHOIS" database. Your identity becomes instantly available - and vulnerable - to spammers, scammers, prying eyes and worse. But now there's a solution: Domains By Proxy" The irony and from what i recall these places are a hotbed for spammers and scammers to hide behind, now why would an honest company wish to hide unless they have future plans for the site & the data as it grows and the rules are more relaxed here as we go OS he will be sitting on a spammers goldmine imho and the way he has conducted himself here and now with the website i will not trust this man as far as i could throw him  Peace
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Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants. http://slapt.me  slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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08-06-2006 14:29
From: Lord Sullivan Couple that with the fact he has the site registered at www.domainsbyproxy.com whos front page suggests a private rather than a public registration to avoid: My own domain is registered by proxy; I don't want people getting my RL name and address from it. There are plenty of other things to be suspicious about apart from that.
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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08-06-2006 14:42
From: Yumi Murakami I really don't think that was intended. I suspect they just wanted to be able to post the answer in that thread since that was where the question was asked, and only a Linden could have posted there. Fact is Yumi with all due respect it was a post that she should have known never to post unless she was giving it LL approval as that is what people will now see from the post. If she was not giving LL approval to the project then a post to that fact might be a good damage limitation exercise as to me the signal LL have now given out is: "we dont care about ur data and will happily support any 3rd party data mining site who wishes to collate and use ur info, especially those that do not have an opt in method, atm its only data we ourselves use for our and a few other opt in sites use that u may belong to, but hay we think opt out is good and especially when people cant find the opt out service in the SL Search button or on the slstats website" It makes you wonder doesnt it  Peace
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Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants. http://slapt.me  slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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08-06-2006 14:45
From: Ordinal Malaprop My own domain is registered by proxy; I don't want people getting my RL name and address from it.
There are plenty of other things to be suspicious about apart from that. I agree i was just citing an example, im lucky as i have an office that i can reg my domains from but i bet i cud reach you etc from ur website tho 
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Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants. http://slapt.me  slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 14:45
From: Lord Sullivan Fact is Yumi with all due respect it was a post that she should have known never to post unless she was giving it LL approval as that is what people will now see from the post. If she was not giving LL approval to the project then a post to that fact might be a good damage limitation exercise as to me the signal LL have now given out is: "we dont care about ur data and will happily support any 3rd party data mining site who wishes to collate and use ur info, especially those that do not have an opt in method, atm its only data we ourselves use for our and a few other opt in sites use that u may belong to, but hay we think opt out is good and especially when people cant find the opt out service in the SL Search button or on the slstats website" It makes you wonder doesnt it  Peace From: SL TOS 6.2 Linden Lab may observe and record your interaction within the Service, and may share aggregated and other general information (not including your personal information) with third parties.
You acknowledge and agree that Linden Lab, in its sole discretion, may track, record, observe or follow any and all of your interactions within the Service. Linden Lab may share general, demographic, or aggregated information with third parties about our user base and Service usage, but that information will not include or be linked to any personal information without your consent.
Besides the fact that LL didn't give him the info, they can if they wanted to. But god damn, stop whining, he fixed it.
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-06-2006 14:47
From: Yumi Murakami Hmph.
He's now modified it so you can only view stats if you log in - and logging in requires using the watch. So I can't log in to see what data he's stored on me without joining in with the program. That's certainly against the Data Protection Act in the UK - I don't know if there's a similar law in the US. If you have to log in and be a user of his service to see that data, that is a major improvement in my opinion. It means the data is no longer accessible to any random data mining by employers and others who search the Internet using automated methods to root out information on employees and others. A further improvement would be to have some method that would allow a person who has NOT signed up for his service to get a simple yes or no answer as to weather his servica has collected data on them or not. If it has, they can opt out, and have it removed. At least, they should be able to.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-06-2006 14:48
From: nimrod Yaffle Besides the fact that LL didn't give him the info, they can if they wanted to. But god damn, stop whining, he fixed it. It's Opt-IN only now? No info displayed on anyone without a watch?
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PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
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08-06-2006 14:49
He may have fixed the view for the ones that have the watch so you cant see as much as before but what can he still see and still can collect and still can use and still can sell to a third part... for cross databases info..
Thats maybe more important to check than what we/you can se right now.. or think he only collects..
In Sweden he should be checked at once by the data inspection..
/Tina
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 14:51
From: Jon Rolland It's Opt-IN only now? No info displayed on anyone without a watch? Right. I don't see what the big deal is. It was your friends wearing the watch and tracking you, not Mark.
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-06-2006 14:56
From: Ceera Murakami If you have to log in and be a user of his service to see that data, that is a major improvement in my opinion. It means the data is no longer accessible to any random data mining by employers and others who search the Internet using automated methods to root out information on employees and others. The problem is that it means people who aren't involved in the program have no way of finding out if they're being tracked or not. The Data Protection Act states that you must be given access to view and correct any information that's being stored about yourself, and this violates that.
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-06-2006 14:56
From: nimrod Yaffle Right. I don't see what the big deal is. It was your friends wearing the watch and tracking you, not Mark. Actually none of them were my friends. And given the character or lack there of who saw me having them called my friends is another good reason I'm glad I opted-out. And since the site is restricted I had no info till now that it was switched to opt-in info only. In that case I have no further issue with the site.
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Berri Fardel
Registered User
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
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08-06-2006 14:58
From: nimrod Yaffle Right. I don't see what the big deal is. It was your friends wearing the watch and tracking you, not Mark. It is not just friends that is tracking. You had seen me and you are not on my friends list. It is anyone near whoever is wearing the watch. And they are doing this with the watch that was created by him.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-06-2006 15:03
From: Yumi Murakami The problem is that it means people who aren't involved in the program have no way of finding out if they're being tracked or not.
The Data Protection Act states that you must be given access to view and correct any information that's being stored about yourself, and this violates that. And in that I agree with you. The fact that he has eliminated the opt-out information now from his site is a major problem, as is the fact that there is no way for an individual to know if his walking spies are recording information on you or not. I have opted out with every account that I have, and most of my close friends have also opted out. If I see names of any individuals that I associate with on his list of users, I intend to contact them myself and request that they stop using a device that collects information on the associations of the watch wearer, without the permission of the other parties.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:08
From: nimrod Yaffle Right. I don't see what the big deal is. It was your friends wearing the watch and tracking you, not Mark. The "deal" as you call is, at no point were people who didn't *actively choose* to participate in this "project" asked for consent, nor even notified for that matter they are being tracked, and that results of this tracking are being recorded by some private 3rd party they've never heard of in the first place.
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Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
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08-06-2006 15:13
From: Joannah Cramer The "deal" as you call is, at no point were people who didn't *actively choose* to participate in this "project" asked for consent, nor even notified for that matter they are being tracked, and that results of this tracking are being recorded by some private 3rd party they've never heard of in the first place. Well, you all can stop bitching, because it's now opt in only, even to view the data. Mark stayed up until 8a this morning to apease you, be happy, rejoyce.
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Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus. Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower. Japanese Jesus, where are you? Pragmatic!
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 15:14
From: Joannah Cramer The "deal" as you call is, at no point were people who didn't *actively choose* to participate in this "project" asked for consent, nor even notified for that matter they are being tracked, and that results of this tracking are being recorded by some private 3rd party they've never heard of in the first place. You talk like you think there's privacy in SL.
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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08-06-2006 15:15
From: nimrod Yaffle Right. I don't see what the big deal is. It was your friends wearing the watch and tracking you, not Mark. Umm I looked me up... I'd been 'seen' by people I don't even know. Not my friends. At the start of this thread, I wasn't fussed. The attitudes expressed since by this person have totally changed how I feel about it, and the fact that you can no longer view what data is being collected on you unless you opt in... You shouldn't have to opt out on something like this. It should be purely opt in. It doesn't really matter to me why people don't want to be a part of it, it should be something they choose. And how many people don't even know this exists to opt out of it? Why should the onus be on us to opt out anyway? This: http://forums.secondlife.com/showpo...850&postcount=9 ... bothers me. A Linden posting on their behalf? In Answers no less? I'm sorry, I don't find that appropriate. It effectively endorses it, it gives the impression of a Linden stamp of approval on his words. And why the fuck could he not post it himself somewhere anyway?
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-06-2006 15:16
From: Berri Fardel You had seen me and you are not on my friends list. Crap, I guess it exposes stalkers too! Sorry about that! >_>
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"People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-06-2006 15:20
From: Jesse Malthus Well, you all can stop bitching, because it's now opt in only, even to view the data. Mark stayed up until 8a this morning to apease you, be happy, rejoyce. Source of this information? because i don't see anything on the slstats page in the changes log about removal of scanning for presence of other people ( http://slstats.com/site/how/) And if am to feel sorry someone choose to stay up until morning because they were silly enough to not foresee the obvious negative reactions to their half-baked idea, then try again.
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