Promote Gun Control

C'mon, will this be another important discussion closed down because a few people couldn't keep personal comments out of it?

It's an issue we need to talk about. Can't we do that -- talk about the issue, that is?

Cindy

No. Because it keeps getting derailed by people saying 'this will solve the problem' when it wont.

If we could talk about the problem and possible solutions, of which this is not one, then yeah. But that's not what's happening.

Your solution fucks up what other people (like me) would want to do in SL. My solution doesn't, in theory, cause a problem for anyone. Well, i suppose if someone *really* wants a skybox at a specific height it might, but generally, its a better compromise than yours or any other I've seen, which is no compromise at all. So I don't see how mine is a 'fuck you' solution. Yes, I don't fly, but as even you can undoubtedly see, at least I understand your problem, whereas your response is 'i dont care about your problem. my need is greater'.

What I did say, and stand by is this: if you implement this kind of solution, I will, along with plenty of others find a different way to get what I want. And you'll undoubtedly be back to square one.



This is me. I'm not trying anything. If you don't like what I have to say, you know how to put me on ignore. As to closing the thread, why would I? If we don't have the discussion, and no one comes along to counter the fact that your proposal has absolutely nothing to do with the problem, they might vote in ignorance. Then we still have the same problem and a crippled SL to show for it to boot.

I know that's what you want; you already said elsewhere something to the effect I should butt out and let people vote in ignorance.

Like I said. There are alternatives. So lets not whitewash the issue with 'this is a solution, vote for it.'. Neither are perfect, nor is any I've seen so far.

Actually, the best suggestion I've seen so far is Maxx's: /13/1e/49637/1.html#post525431

Hecko.

I read Maxx's proposal about flying fast and not rendering anything but I have to ask, isnt this about the same as point to point TPs? I mean if nothing is going to be rendered, then why even travel and go thru a sim? Save transactions and just TP directly to the end point.

Yup! And save all that hassle in between. I totally agree.

That's another proposal altogether. And unlikely to appease the people complaining here tho, because they'll say they want to fly. With all the inconvenience that entails. Thus forcing us to other solutions.

Prokofy posted what Philip is thinking on this matter, great stuff:

QOUTE from Prokofy's post: "When it was explained that what could be done was just have a Linden write a memo that henceforth bouncescripts would cause the player to be banned if he used them without warning and bounced av homes -- a policy, not a programming job -- he said "that is something to think about." "

Maybe Philip is onto something here. I had said earlier in this thread that we just need a common sense rule to shooting.

1. Shoot only Avies who agree to be shot..

2. shoot those who refuse to leave your land after fair warning...

3. shoot those who are shooting at you.

That allows games, anti-griefing and self-defense. Any other shooting would be a reportable offense.

I think it is a matter of responsibility. We have to stop punishing everyone because a few are bad. This goes to the heart of the gun control debate.. do criminals obey gun laws? If not, why do we place these laws on the law abiding people who are not the target of the legislation? As was pointed out, griefers will grief, lock one option and they find another function. Eventually the game will be no fun at all for the good people. I prefer defending myself when someone attacks me. I don't want to complain, I want to get out my shield blaster.. muhahaha I hope they change the rules to allow shooting back

Damn, I was hoping for at least one fuck you. I was shocked.

Shifting paradigms isn't going to fix this, it's a complete waste of resources to even think so. What needs to happen is simply this: the Lindens need to remove anything that could be used as a weapon and start over. llPushObject is just the most obvious piece of code that has been weaponized, but I've shown that even llSay can be used malisciously. A technical fix isn't going to solve this, and neither is a policy adjustment.

The only thing that's going to keep people from bullying people in SL is a complete removal of all LSL abilities. Once their gone other people can start voting on which functions and routines the Lindens could give us. Slowly, we could build of a working script language without dangerous functions like llPushObject or llSay.

I beg to differ on this point. The other thing that will keep people from bullying other people is LL granting us the ability to protect ourselves without risking suspension.

I agree with Siggy that ultimately it is about the current privacy tools for land not being sufficient. These security scripts are used because the current tools are inadequate. While I don't think revamped land tools would totally stop their use, I think it would eradicate their use by the vast majority of those currently using them to manage their land access.

What I find disturbing is the "BAN ANYONE WHO USES THESE SCRIPTS!" rhetoric. That is kind of scary to me that someone thinks just because someone interrupts your lovely flight pattern, they should no longer be allowed to be part of SL, without exception. Never mind that there are far more aggregious things (and you are not hurt in any way, shape or form by this behavior, just annoyed and inconvenienced) that do not ever result in banning, this should be some kind of major zero tolerance policy with no exception? Please, that is such hyperbole and overkill it is not even funny. Almost as bad as calling this issue gun control in the first place.

Certainly, it should be a TOS violation - it is interfering with usage of a basic feature like flying, but again, it is not and should not be bannable. No one should be removed from SL because you got teleported home trying to fly to Tringo. There is not one single approach that is going to solve this problem. It requires improvement in privacy tools, improvement in personal protections against abuse, and policy change - sensible policy change, not policy based on rhetoric.

Not true. It's being derailed by people mischaracterizing each other's positions and building strawmen. Suggestions to solve the problem, on the other hand, are actually part of what this thread should be about. Even the ones that won't work.


A way is needed for those who want security on their land to have that security without aggressively interfering with other people's right to move about SL without being rudely pushed or TP'd.

I don't understand why, if the problem can be stated, it cannot also be solved to everyone's satisfaction. I thought a "no push" option was a good answer, as long as it didn't completely defuse land security systems and allow me to violate someone's privacy with the button activated.

I agree that a way should be found for people to have privacy protected but that should not be allowed for them to extend violent pushing outside their land on to avatars -- or even on their land, which someone has come on inadvertently, with no warning.

In RL, there is free airspace over a house to fly and public roads around a house to travel on. Without this in SL, we need other protections.

The button idea is work for the Lindens, something more to master, and doesn't solve the people problem at root: the presence of an entitlement-attitude, a me-first attitude that only the authority of the Lindens can check. All you do with the button solution is make more variables for people to adjust their world without solving the problem of the entitlement aggressiveness which you need to solve for other reasons because it will go on cropping up in the game in other arenas.

The button would not disable the script or remove it but just make it not work on that avatar who pushed it. Of course, a lot of people will push it then once they have the steep learning curve vanquished on using it, and then there will be no point to bounce scripts. One can hope they will wither up and die then.

LOL the steep learning curve of using a button. On/Off. Wow, what a curve. Thank you for making me laugh out loud, that has to be one of the most ridiculous things you have ever said. Granted, the bar was high, but, yeah, I think it is the most ridiculous.

Edit - I would be remiss in not also giving credit to violent pushing of avatars among your rhetoric gems. Avatar on avatar violence is truly tragic. We should start some kind of advocacy group to stop the senseless violence. I am so glad you are spearheading such an important issue!

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

There is NO STEEP LEARNING CURVE TO AN ON/OFF SWITCH. As soon as a child can reach the switch they learn how to turn on and off lights. Trust me - I know. They have a great time flipping them on and off. On and off. On and off.

Authority doesn't do anything about that either though. It makes having that attitude a crime, but it doesnt do jack about the attitude. In fact it would probably inflame the attitude.

I finally figured out who Prokofy reminds me of when he poo-poos the "push resistance" feature on the basis of button/slider complexity! Toy manufacturer Irwin Mainway played by Dan Akroyd in this OLD Saturday Night Live skit.

Here is a part where Irwin tries to demonstrate how traditional toys are just as dangerous as his own by posing some rather implausible scenarios.

Hey now, Aimee, do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

For demonstrative purposes, and a little fun:

Consumer Reporter: Mr. Neva, are you seriously suggesting that a push resistance button would require a steep learning curve for users?

Prokofy Neva: Absolutely. I mean [starts clicking randomly] what do I click? Up there? Over here? This whole thing is confusing…

Consumer Reporter: Mr. Neva the button is right there in front of ….

Prokofy Neva: [Alt-tabs into Outlook] Where? I don’t see it! It could be anywhere!

Consumer Reporter: That’s enough, Mr. Neva. Are you also suggesting that users would not be able to understand a push resistance slider?!

Prokofy Neva: There is no way… I mean does the mouse slide? Does my monitor slide? My chair? [sides back and forth in computer chair]. This could be dangerous [falls backwards out of chair] WHOA! Hey this is not only difficult but hazardous for new users! Linden Lab is going to get sued if they implement this!

What if I don't have any fingers to push the button Cristiano?! Try arguing with THAT!!! I F-ING WIN!!!!!! I AM THE BEST!!!!

Damn you Ingrid! By the way, did you enjoy the deluge of protest photos sent to you?

uh oh.... what?

Oh look in your textures folder, it probably just auto-accepted.

I'd suggest they add a brevity slider to the forum but I suspect the person who most needs it wouldn't be able to figure it out.

Y'all don't get it when he's pulling your leg.

coco

Yeah we do, we just like to have fun with it, the forums are boring.