Clear Flight Path

Ok. Over the last few days/weeks/months I've heard a hell of a lot of crap, mostly misinformed, about the blight of security scripts and how much they inconvenience people. And even more crap about how it ought to be combatted.

The latest thinking is that we add a button to the UI to nerf pushing. I got news for ya: most security scripts don't push. They EjectFromLand. So your solution simply isn't one.

Ultimately, any real solution must be one that allows everyone to have what they want, or whatever you do will simply be worked around: if you nerf a function, even if you nerf the right one *grin*, people WILL come up with alternative security methods. You will just shift the problem elsewhere.

It is very, very evident that people want privacy in Second Life. They WILL get it somehow. You will play a never ending game of cat and mouse.

The very best solution will undoubtedly be much better controls over our property, and the ability to make areas private above 15m off the ground or whatever it is now.

But what about something we can do now? That requires no code changes, and hopefully, for the most part, keeps all sides happy?


What if the Lindens formally designate, via the ToS, a clear flight path , say, between 200m and 500m above ground level, where you can be assured of (except for fscking tall buildings) not getting thrown around - because it's simply illegal to have a script that affects other avatars within this designated airspace.


Above that, and below that, you can still use security scripts or whatever.

It means those of us who want skyboxes/labs/private areas can do so. It means everyone can be assured they can fly unhindered, for the most part. Everyone knows where they stand (or fly, I guess).

And it doesn't nerf any functions. Or ban any scripts. It just requires a simple ToS change for a clear cut rule: obstructing the designated flight path is a suspendable offence. Scripts that do will be removed.

It could be implemented tomorrow!

OK: you can shoot me down in flames now

Edit: I figured I might as well make a proposal out of it...

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=395

Me too, Tor. And this is why I don't experience any of these problems people are getting up in arms about. But I'm trying to come up with a simple, elegant solution that is grounded in common sense and can be implemented immediately, and hopefully keeps both sides happy.

Which is why it'll probably fail: because people prefer the 'me! me! me!' dont-give-a-fuck-what-you-want nerf everything chicken little style proposals instead

Now would the people who put the scripts out there be suspended or would be up to the lindens to run around and remove them?



Actually Kris, I've only heard one person making "me! me! me! I-don't-give-a-fuck-what-you-want statements.....

As for your proposal, I still don't like the idea that we have to try and get a linden to take care of this stuff for us. They aren't exactly REAL big (nor real quick) on taking enforcement actions. That's part of the reason people are getting so frustrated with the current state of affairs regarding these scripts. But if this were put through as a workable (and actually enforced) system, it might work. 200-500 meters might be a bit high though. Can avatars fly at 200 meters without sinking if they pause? I'd hate to see someone receive an IM and accidentally drop to 199 meters....

I'm not answering you twice, because talking to you is like talking to an extremely thick brick wall.

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Yeah, I know what you mean Kris. Its seems rather pointless to answer you twice as well... Even if you are an absolute poster child for people skills

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I'd like something that scales with transit speed. Specifically, if I'm flying along at 'n' meters per second (something fast, say, clearing a sim in a second or less) SL shouldn't attempt to send me any data except the border handoffs and maybe the strip of land below me.

It would be nice, just to zip along, jumping sims - and since no objects would get rendered (I guess you'd include avatars maybe) it wouldn't be a sim-killer. This of course assumes that there is some way to seperate a fast-travelling object from the scads of other objects existing in a sim.

Maybe not feasible, but it would technically seem to be a solution to rapid transit.

It'll end up in the bitbucket for sure, but I just wanted post it.

Kris,

I thought of that yesterday, too, when I faced a bad bounce from somebody not that far from the telehub in the flight path.

But I thought that as soon as you begin to have any notion that encroaches on tall buildings of the sort Marcos Fonzarelli or Maxx Monde make -- and there are lots in SL -- you'll hear screaming from the Shiny Set. And they'll defeat it. It's not a solution. It also forces people to figure out their flight elevation as they emerge from a telehub, when they have no ingame tools (as distinct from something they might buy) that gives them a read-out as to their altitude.

If you are willing to create a desk solution rather than a shop solution, i.e. a change in policy and TOS rather than programming, why can't you then use my desk solution?

My desk solution would be to say: "Ban the use of scripts that eject home without warning and enforce it by banning avatars who use such scripts for 3 days."

No programming has to be done, no scouring of servers has to be done to rid them of this push script or eject script, you just have to have iron resolve.

Iron resolve is sometimes in short supply here when it needs to appear, but honestly, a lot more of this is needed to end the spoiled, feted, entitlement-atmosphere we now find in SL.

If people are told by LINDENS that they can't push other avs home without warning, or eject without warning, they're given pause. They realize they can't go on screaming about how they can do what they want on their property. They've been given notice that the right to swnig their arm ends at another's nose. They can't bounce an av just to get private.

If we can just get a philosophical recognition of that basic fact of human community that has been used for the millenia, we could get somewhere. It's their failure to rule on the "soft stuff" like this, and always look for hardware and programming solutions, that is defeating the harmony of the community. Let them show some backbone. You don't get to push avs home, end of story.

Some people, when they finally get a voice of authority telling them this, will stop. Since sellers of bounce scripts are enabling the violation of the TOS, the Lindens, for extra credit, can have this policy extend to the "sale or use of scripts that push avs home" and end that little racket quick, and force the manufacturers to put in warnings and not eject all the way home -- to eliminate those features entirely on their own, without having the Lindens de-program it.

IF the Lindens make some arrests, i.e. make a few 3 day bans in the police blotter, people will shape up. Honestly, they dont' get anywhere near the effectiveness out of that police blotter they could.

I don't understand the flight height limit at all. I've asked several Lindens why it exists and why it's so low several times over the years but never been given an answer. It sometimes aggrevates the snot out of me that they don't relay simple party line answers to simple "why is foo" type questions. They know. They programmed it.

Oh I'm off topic sorry. Privacy is an issue so I understand maybe setting the limit at 500 meters leaving a couple of hundred more open for platforms and sky boxes that take some extra effort to reach. It'd actually be better if a range of fifty meters or so were designated as "no build" so that we have an actual open corridor for telestick users.

Or

the option to p2p to a location will solve the rez while flying, bounce scripts, low height flight limit and distance from hub problems in one simple to reimplement feature.

*laughs* actually Kris, you haven't answered me once. So... is 200 meters a workable height for people flying or do they start sinking if they pause?

I realize that it's like talking to a wall and everthing, but you didn't answer once, much less twice. Now is 200 meters a workable flying height or do people sink if they pause?

Maybe if you spent more time in SL instead of playing 'righteous troll', you'd know the answer to that particular question.

Really, did you even try?

Bah, why do I bother.

As I said in the other thread, I'm going not going to participate in flamebaiting from anyone (this includes you Maxx AND your buddy).

Funny you should mention this because I did test this out and 200 meters is too high. It looks like 80 meters is the "no sink" height.

Kris Ritter, I am in love with you. I have been fighting for sensible security/privacy solutions in SL forever.

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