Promote Gun Control

We need to treat the issue of bounce scripts as like Gun Control.

Heres's what the inestamable Buster Peel posted to hotline. You wonder what it will take to get the Lindens to BAN BOUNCE SCRIPTS.

We know Aimee Weber opposes this gun control, as do many others. But we can only beg and plead with the Lindens to stop the angry departures from this game caused by their refusal to ban this script.

They dance around it by saying it needs to warn first, it needs never to bounce all the way home. Ok, well then ban all those who DO bounce you home and DO NOT warn you. Just ban them. Stop fussing about the idea you can't police all of them, try to make at least some deterrent.

I recently struggled to fly to a property. I can no longer get out to it because of the presence of a really neasty bounce scripted area in the telehub areas.

If it is considered a weapon, then we will get fartther in controlling it. It is a weapon.

Hate this thing.... yes I have nearly stopped looking around...in SL.. and i feel that looking around are an important part of being in SL...

This has been discussed before. Please, enlighten us with your expert technical solution. How does one "ban bounce scripts" when they're based on an innocuous function which is used constantly for so many benign purposes? The solution is strict enforcement of the TOS, not nerfing LSL.

I think a smarter battle to fight would be, "Warning before booting needs to be enforced more strictly."

It is not currently a violation of the TOS to deploy a bounce script. That's the problem. That's where it has to be gin. Nerfing LSL or blocking scripts on servers is another level of intervention. Let's start with making it a TOS violation because it is a weapon usually used in a safe zone.

Lee Linden made a pronunciation on the bounce script in terms of it being recommended that it inform people and not bounce all the way home, but this is just like some ecclesiastical interpretation in one parish, it is not a Papal Bull. We need a high pronunciation that this is banned, that people will be disciplined for using it, end of story.

Very hard one to act on here but i know one sim that is practically covered with teleport to home security orbs, this sim is next to a sim that is impossible to enter most of the time due to its always full, matter being worse these are close to telehubs so to get to further away places you have to fly alonnnngg way around.

I think its a good idea to split this up first the teleport to home option on these security devices, ok if i wanted to go home i would select it myself thanks, and to be quite honest apart from a few gadgets like the stargate etc i dont really think this function is used that widely so do we really need the script function teleport to home?

Also create a special bounce function for security devices, the function should have a built in delay set by LL and also have a limited power

IF nobody of the bosses are interested in this problem we can talk talk talk ... and nothing will happen.. and less and less of us will fly around looking for experiences... what i see some an important part of being in SL...

To be TP-ed home (in SL) are xxxxx... or comp/software crash.. especially the later are to close to my IRL person..


In WoW - you at once get banned if you try to import something from IRL.. (what I am told).. maybe thats the solution with the ones that uses this kind of scripts...


But on the other hand.. in a land that you can get all kind of weapons easy 24/7... DDD

lol is she now the windmill at which you are tilting? Do us a favor, take your own advice, and stick to braying your own opinions, not those of others of whom you know little and understand less.

To those of you that are going to leave until Linden Lab cave to your personal wants: don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, will you? Second Life doesn't need the kind of people who are willing to try and strongarm their blinkered vision of a 'better' Second Life at the expense of hundreds and thousands of people who DO want what they don't.

Fortunately, LL won't ban guns. or the ability to push. Because they're sensible, for the most part. Should they take more severe action against people using these functions irresponsibly? sure. Should they ban them altogether? hell, no.

Think about it; which will cause more disgruntled people to leave? Banning guns and stifling creativity by removing LSL functions? Or being bounced around a bit by an irresponsible persons script? Who will be the ones who leave? And who will be most missed? A few whiny people with over the top reactions to having their widdle avatars being bounced around? Or the scripters and weapon crafters who make Second Life fun for so many people?

Heh, if you actually got your way - when all the innovative scripters are gone and you're all playing barbie doll houses together and living in 'peace', free from the tyranny of the nasty guns and scripts, you'll be whining about how bland and boring the world is.

Don't penalise everyone for a few assholes. Deal with the assholes.

Its not enforced at all.

*long pause*

Because that isn't a rule anywhere. It was a comment by a single linden, and not the word of law.

By the way, Prok... Thanks for framing this in a light that lets me take a firm position. Gun control. Previously I was kinda undecided about security scripts... I don't really like them, but I didn't see any specific reason we should start banning people for them...

Well, now I've made up my mind.

I'm against gun control in the real world, I'll be against it here too.

i consider a flying avatar has nothing to do 200 meters high on my parcel and thus i consider mine is safe

I agree that these abusive scripts should be a TOS violation. You can't shoot someone with a gun on your property that knocks them away from you, but you can put an automated script to do it? What kind of screwed up logic is that? However, I am completely opposed to altering LSL to achieve this - or forcing the Lindens to try to block scripts on a server level (you suddenly change one line and it's not the same script anyway - it would be very difficult for them to block without blocking legit uses of this). A simple solution to this is to put a button right on the UI to turn on or off the ability to be pushed. With it turned off, LSL functions that push you have no effect on your avatar. Not rocket science, simple for even the newest of player to understand, and it does not damage existing scripts.

By the way, Prokofy, since you felt the need to drag Aimee into this and not tell the full story, Aimee is only opposed to the type of gun control you advocate, which is to just ban legit uses in favor of solving the problem of security scripts. She suggested alternatives which you found too cumbersome and so dismissed and taunted her ideas. I am opposed to the type of gun control you want too, as I would imagine a lot of people are. I am all for giving users control over their own experiences - and this can be done without ripping functionality out of LSL in the process.

Why haven't they done this yet?

Well given that LL finds it a TOS violation to shoot someone off your land, but not to have a script do it for you, I'm not sure why they haven't - they are oddly ambivalent on this topic, when it would be in their best interest to help prevent greifing. Hell, There had a very simple option for this, and it would certainly benefit SL and cut down on griefing potential.

Why bring up Aimee Weber?

Briana Dawson

Not only bring her up, but mischaracterize her in the process.

I think Prok has a crush.

Refering to this.. "i consider a flying avatar has nothing to do 200 meters high on my parcel and thus i consider mine is safe"...

We fly high above your land because that's how people get from place to place. When I tp to a store I fly straight up to avoid the stores and buildings rezzing. I stay up high until I get to my destination. If you set up security up there it will affect us.

All you need to do is limit the attack area to your own land and give the person at least 10 seconds to get by, and if you must attack push lightly, not a major attack. Just because we fly through your land is no reason to attack. Imagine being shot for walking by a neighbor's house, their excuse.. "you got too close".. Think of being in that position, treat others as you would be treated. I think most of these issues would evaporate if we abide by the golden rule.

200+ meters is also optimal flying height for the aviators among us.

I like that idea - or if not completely turned off, at least reduced significantly. It's a much-needed anti-griefing tool as well.

I'm still confused as to why it's necessary to not just push someone out of your property -- a feature I understand and support if the landowner feels that way -- but to bounce them all the way to the end of the world and remove all their attachments. I've hit a few of these things that actually landed me UNDER the terrain where I could not move or use normal TP. I had to relog, then TP home to even get myself reset.

To me it's less of an analogy with gun control and more like the one with smoking -- I support your right to smoke, up until the moment it interferes with my ability to breathe air. If your script interferes with my ability to reach MY OWN STORE or property, then we're going to have to have a serious talk -- and failure to remove/reduce the push distance will result in endless abuse reports and an escalation of the matter to the Lindens.

You have the right to protect the land you own, but you do not have the right to shove me to the limits of the virtual world. That is where it changes from self-protection to an overt act of aggression -- from passive to aggressive. If you're not aware of it, I'll make you aware of it and my subsequent actions will depend solely on whether you are willing to be reasonable.

Cindy

Yes, Cristiano, when a bright, creative individual with loads of ideas and even personal investment in this game like Buster Peel finally logs off, and takes his stand over the issue of the bounce scripts -- those pernicious, nasty fuck-off features in this game that bounce your av to kingdom come and make flight and exploration in this content game *almost impossible*, yes, I frame the issue so as to concentrate the mind wonderfully.

Gun Control.

You're either for it, or you're not. When you put it that way, it becomes more clear, and you stop fussing about scripts and harping on the scripterati's rights and privileges and start talking more about quality of life -- quality of exploration, quality of this game.

Aimee was for creating an elaborate slider control that would have to be mastered on one's UI, calibrated, then deployed in order to prevent bounce scripts and other weapons from having an impact on you. In other words, Aimee was not for gun control, Aimee was for creating an expensive Kevlar vest that all players would have to don and sweat in and have impact their movement -- a Kevlar vest that the Lindens would have to sweat at, too, to program.

Whereas if the Lindens can muster the will and organization to simply ban bounce scripts, there's no coding requiring. No game patch. No technical solution once again to what is a people problem. It's just a policy. No bounce scripts, or you are banned. That way, they don't attack scripters' creativity, they don't attack the act of scripting, they don't devise some combersom Kevlar vest solution, they just make a policy, a soft, no-expense, concentration-of-will kind of effort.

What astounds me is that so many keep understanding what amounts to a desk policy in writing and TOS enforcement to equivalent to some technical decision -- no doubt complicated and expensive -- that involves stopping this script dead on the server through the use of other mechanisms. Gosh, that sounds hard -- and silly. You can go a long way toward stopping menaces like guns in say, New York City, by just making city ordnances. You don't have to travel to gun-makers' factories in West Virginia and make elaborate x-rays and metal detectors on state highways to prevent them from transporting the metal and gunpowder needed to make their products. And that's the moral equivalent of what all these scripterati are suggesting when they obsess and fester about stopping creativity and stopping the literal mechanical features of a bounce script. All you have to do is take these feted tekkie analogies into the real world to see them evaporate in the light of reason and common sense.

Just ban the damn bounce scripts. The ones that don't notify you in time to clear. The ones that bounce you home. Just ban them. And make a few arrests. It costs nothing. It needs no coding or patches. Just do it.

Start gun control today!

Guns are kind of fun though. I'd just prefer to be able turn my ability to be pushed on and off at will. I'd miss blasting the hell out of my buddies.

Anyone who wants anti "gun"-control t-shirts, post here... I might have to whip some up.

You can have my scripts when you pry them out of my cold, dead hard-drive!

I think more and more, the Lindens will start enforcing a TOS that bans bounce scripts that fail to notify and which aggressively bounce home. It's just common sense. The way they don't allow verbal aggression and ban that, they won't allow script aggression, either.

That won't be prying anything out of your cold, dead hard-drive, it will just be prying at your cold, dead, hard -- oh never mind.

Prokofy,

You keep saying "ban bounce scripts" - do you mean make them a TOS violation, or to remove them from SL altogether. The second option does have a tremendous cost and difficulty of implementation, and affects legitimate use of the push functions for elevators and other items. As I said, I am all for making them a TOS violation - as they already are for use with guns (why you are calling this "gun control" is beyond me, when this is not about guns at all). You completely ignored the suggestion of simply being able to turn the ability to be pushed off with the click of a button. I know you think people are stupid and could not possibly understand a slider, but do you also think they are so critically obtuse to not be able to understand a simple on off button?