Ok just a teeny little rant - please don't call me "girl".

Good evening, Me again.

I've been reading the General Opinions regarding "Respect, Earned or Taken?" On reflection, I can't agree whole heartedly with Either Viewpoint. To my Mind, there are two forms of respect. There is the simple basic Common Courtesy one should show to All, and of course expect from all. This can be summed up with the example of Not Interrupting a conversation in which you are not an active participant, or Not making a general nusience of yourself in someone elses Home. THAT kind of respect can rightfully be Demanded by all, because it IS the right of all to be Granted it.
The Second Form, and the Type most often demanded where not deserved Is a sort of general admiration of a person for their acheivements, or their Uncommon selflessness.

As a Human being, i Most certainly DO Demand a certain Level of respect Just as i strive at all times to Give it to others.
Within my Tenure as a Domme in TSO, and SL Many people have shown me a respect as a Mistress that they Feel i deserve (At times i don't see myself as deserving of it, But then That form of respect is a Gift so, How can i Judge?).

Come to my Home,, All i ask is you Respect the rules of my house, which, by Gorean standards, are surprisingly Few. When i go to your home, I will conduct myself as a Civilized Human being According to Your house rules.
As for Respect Form #2,, Lets get to Know Each Other, and Judge For ourselves How worthy the other is. It takes Time, or should, to EARN that kind of respect.

OH,, and for the Person who described the Gor Novels as "Sh*t Books", I don't think Anyone, Gor, or Not would assume those Novels is worthy of any Literary distinction. No one is ever likely to Mention the works of John Norman with the same reverence they reserve for Shakespeare.
In short,, I agree, they ARE "Sh*t Books". But as badly written as they are, it's the Concepts that caught peoples Imaginations. Not the Skill with which they were expressed.

Angel.

Agreed!

Quoted For Emphasiz

I think some goreans tend to feel that all D/s is just a facet of people who haven't discovered Gor yet, and thus do not know the true way of relationships or whatever cult-like philosophy they religiously adhere too. On one hand a part of the "culture" if it can be called that, of Gor is that a Master is able to treat every female who's not "free" (in Gor there are free woman but they're frequently referenced as "slaves in waiting" a certain way. And since some goreans take this past the "roleplay" sense of gor (infact most do), then naturally they'll take it past the roleplay borders and widespread apply it to everyone.

Then of course, there's the other REALLY creepy bastards who consider it a way of life/religion/RL lifestyle, and thus will not drop the Gorean act for anything and will get offended if you question their values that they've recklessly taken from a pulp porn series of 40 years ago and tried to apply it to their own daily life. Go to some Gor sims and (if you can ask before you get banned) they'll say "We are NOT a roleplay sim".

Overall, you should just put up a sign in your club that says "This is NOT gor, your gorean relationship can persist with your slave (or vice versa), but firstly assume that no one else is gorean and act accordingly unless otherwise indicated."

Well first off if a Gorean comes to my sim and starts acting (and expecting) like Gorean rules will be followed I eject his ass right then and there.

Before I started a D/s relationship with a good friend she did some escort work. One night she agreed to meet a man for an hour or so. When she arrived (and NOT in a Gorean sim btw), she was informed she was now a Gorean Slave! She played along with his game for a while, but he got abusive and nasty if she stepped outside the gorean way of doing things. He spent the better part of an hour explaining the woman's place in life and her new roles and duties, etc.

He ended up harassing her with IMs, seriously expecting she would become his slave forever. She ended up muting him.

This is the type of behavior I've seen time and again from goreans. Sure there are nice ones - I've met a few. But I do believe the whole setup of Gor encourages this type of behavior.

Your experiences are similar to mine. A few months ago a Gorean group "invaded" my home sim and started buying the land by any means possible. They employed teams of griefers to help convince residents to sell. In the end I found myself alone against this foe and was forced to sell to Anshe who sold to the foe. Funny thing happened a few weeks after their "victory" all of the Land reverted to Governor Linden and was made into first land.

I am not into role-playing Gorean or any other sort of BDSM and will not tolerate it on my land or land under my control. If I would visit one of there sims or lands would follow their customs. The following is typical of my interactions with most Goreans.
A Male arrives on my property and notices that I am wearing a "collar". He asks me who "owns" me. When I say nobody, he deploys a pose ball set, declares me to be his slave. "Bitch get naked and on the pose ball!"
I left click him and hit the "freeze" and then "freeze" again. I look at this worm for a few listening to his cursing and insults. I once again left click and "mute" him. Another left click and then hit the "eject". I then go about banning him from my land. I go about deleting his pose balls.
If you want to play "master" and "slave" it is your business, but keep it off my land. Calling me "girl" or other such name more than once will earn you the same treatment as above.
What is so hard for you to understand?

I would just eject them.

Part of the problem is that the sim in question is D/s themed and even welcomes Gorean people. Because of this theme and welcome, I would reason that maybe it indirectly implies to Gorean visitors that their way of life is welcomed in your sim. So they get the "I can be myself (Gor) here" mentality and start acting like they would in a Gorean sim to some extent.

Wow, that is an extreme even I've never seen. That has nothing to do with being Gorean, thats just general assholeness. And further proof that it's always the bad apples who stand out the most and make the rest of the bunch look rotten.

If anyone came into our club and treated anyone that way they would be publicly mocked and permanently banned. Their name would be known to our club members as a person to avoid and likely wind up being banned from a few other places.

One of the most important things our members have come to expect is that they will be treated with respect always while inside our sim. I think so far that reputation has helped us to attract only the right people most of the time. Every now and then someone comes along who can't or won't play nice but those people never stay long, they are weeded out fairly quickly.

The Gorean members we do have understand that yes they are respected and they can be themselves... with each other. When they are in a group with other club members who are not Gorean they also understand that everyone is different and we can have a blending of styles in the group and all styles will get along fine.
It is the people (Gorean or D/s or none of the above, whoever) who can't understand this ideal who tend to not stick around long.
It's a system that actually works very well 90% of the time. In fact when I posted my original rant in this thread I was inspired to post it not by anything that happened on our club sim but in fact something that had happened in my store. heh.

Ditto!

i've never seen anything like this happening at the Forum...quite the opposite, Gorean folks, non-Goreans folks, furries, D/s folks, etc. all get along fine with each other...

and your store is interesting...

..speaking of which.. if anyone finds themselves having a weapon waved in their face and suspects its a kid, could you please send them my way. thank you. (sorry allana for hijacking your thread a bit )

Hijack all ya want darlin! And sorry haven't run into any kids lately but if I do I'll send em your way for a buttkickin.

I'd AR them. That *seriously* crosses the line.

Pity you didn't hang on, then.



Why were you wearing a collar? If you wear a wedding ring, you must expect people to think you are married.

Mind you, not excusing the idiot's behaviour. If someone wears a collar it is a signal that they are *not* available. But a collar is an indication of a submissive nature, and if you wear one you must expect people to think you are submissive.

That doesn't seem hard to understand.

Easy to get confused, what I wear on my neck is not a slave or a submissive collar. I am neither dom or sub. I bought it since it reminded me of of the old throat mikes pilots use to wear and have been wearing it as decoration since then.
If this Gorean thought I was someones property should he not have left me alone? Again for the record I belong to nobody and am the master of my own self and reject all masters and doms. People calling me "girl" risk getting ejected and banned.

Interesting.. but that gives no one the right to order someone else about... expect people to think you are submissive, and they're expected to know and realize that those who are submissive are not theirs or doormats

Actually, the first lesson I was taught was to never assume someone's place based on garb, Selador.

The first domme I ever met wore a collar; it was intricate, it was crafted, it was beautiful, and if you had told her to kneel she would have had a stiletto heel planted in your ass so hard you would have been singing soprano. (Generic you, mind.)

This is just more of the same, people assuming everyone adheres to their standards, and plays their way. I wear my collar nearly all the time, I like the way it looks. I am not owned, and am usually offended that just because I'm wearing a collar, you would assume that a), I am owned, and b), that I play the same way you do.

The lesson here should be, don't assume things, especially about other people. Not everyone lives and plays like you do. Talk to people with an open mind.

Please tell my mom that I *promise* to call soon!

She says she misses you, you naughty boy.

And I'm to give you several firm spankings.

Now come here.

This guy was an asshole griefer no matter what he called himself.

That kind of behavior isn't condoned in any D/s or Gorean sim I know of. (collared means "taken", generally speaking, not "free slave sex, get it while it's hot!" Unless this sort of thing goes on in Gorean sims, I'm hardly an expert. But this was your own land.

You should be able to wear whatever the hell you please without being abused by anyone. Just hit eject, as you did, they really don't represent anyone but their lame selves.

Yes, he should. That's why I called him an idiot.

What a strange first lesson to teach a child! The first lesson I taught mine was not to stick metal things in electric sockets.

I have to say, if I see someone wearing khaki and carrying a gun, I tend to assume they are a soldier. If I see someone dressed in blue with a round helmet on their head, I tend to assume they are a copper.

There are pieces of clothing *designed* to demonstrate someone's place, and one of them is the slave collar, or indeed, its equivalent, the wedding ring. The kind you describe as worn by a domme doesn't sound much like that.

Think of it this way. You got some bonehead talking to you with the ego of a politician and probably the self-esteem of a turd behind the screen. And not only he, but you and everyone around you, is a CARTOON! Makes it a lot harder for anyone to get under your skin when you can sit and grin at the absurdity of it all.

As far as sims go, Steven Catron had good points. I also just try to follow each sim's rules when I go. It's just role playing and basic respect. I'm not Gorean. But I will use their preferred ways of address and behavior and wear the silk-dresses when I go I really don't have a problem with this, because I find online games in general more fun if everyone would just relax. The other option being, and I have yet to see anyone on a sim not adhere to this...if you wear the guest titlers, you don't have to worry about the role play. Seriously, I've never seen anyone disrespect that, and they seem to be available on all the islands.

One last thing, sometimes guys just don't realize that certain nicknames are offensive in some way. Like many will use the term "girl" just out of affection. But yes of course, if you ask someone not to, they should respect that. Just remember, egotistical low self-esteem Cartoon