Advances in Equal Opportunity: Where We Are Now
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-14-2005 05:09
From: DogSpot Boxer And before ya start on the hypocrisy shit, I know I'm as guilty of it as anybody here. You have since reached enlightenment, and this is why you have returned to share the nirvana of not being confrontational with we who still walk the path? Or is there some other reason for your generous sharing of advice?
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CrystalShard Foo
1+1=10
Join date: 6 Feb 2004
Posts: 682
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11-14-2005 05:37
What Nolan said actually does strikes me as an intresting point...
If any of you becomes a success, you will be immidiatly flagged as a Favorite who has access to more resources then anyone else, simply because the Lindens now potentialy favor them.
Additionaly, any attempt to contribute to the SecondLife community - especialy with Linden backing or support - will be viewed as "certain proof" for that person's status as a 'Linden Favorite' who damages the world as a whole.
Speaking from a purely economic point of view, SecondLife have seen several new figures rising up on the economic ladder. Some of them have allready been flagged as "Linden Favorites", and the rest are surely on their way to that position and will get there as soon as they become more visible in the community.
When I look at this situation, I cant help but ponder if the only way to avoid social drama and accusations is by avoiding success all together?
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 05:44
From: CrystalShard Foo
When I look at this situation, I cant help but ponder if the only way to avoid social drama and accusations is by avoiding success all together?
I think human nature being what it is, it is unavoidable. The only thing you can do is rise above it and consider the source. Yeah, it gets tiring being told that you didn't earn your success and you are standing in the way of anyone else ever being successful because you had the audacity to do something for free, but ultimately, it is all just about petiness, envy, and the fact that many people can only tear down others as a way to ease their own sense of inadequacy. The ultimate revenge to that is to just keep doing what you love, and to trust in the response you get from 99% of people, not the bitter 1%.
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Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
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11-14-2005 06:08
From: Cristiano Midnight I think human nature being what it is, it is unavoidable. The only thing you can do is rise above it and consider the source. Yeah, it gets tiring being told that you didn't earn your success and you are standing in the way of anyone else ever being successful because you had the audacity to do something for free, but ultimately, it is all just about petiness, envy, and the fact that many people can only tear down others as a way to ease their own sense of inadequacy. The ultimate revenge to that is to just keep doing what you love, and to trust in the response you get from 99% of people, not the bitter 1%. Sad but true, and very well put Cristiano...
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-14-2005 06:20
From: Cristiano Midnight I think human nature being what it is, it is unavoidable. The only thing you can do is rise above it and consider the source. Yeah, it gets tiring being told that you didn't earn your success and you are standing in the way of anyone else ever being successful because you had the audacity to do something for free, but ultimately, it is all just about petiness, envy, and the fact that many people can only tear down others as a way to ease their own sense of inadequacy. Or that they are looking for help as to what they ought to do, and they are accusing people of other things in the hope they'll give out useful information in their defence.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 06:28
From: Yumi Murakami Or that they are looking for help as to what they ought to do, and they are accusing people of other things in the hope they'll give out useful information in their defence. Yeah there's a great strategy. Accuse people of things so that they can provide you with guidance. That is soooo much more effective than, say, asking, or better yet, doing your own thing instead of riding on someone's coattails snipping at their heels.
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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11-14-2005 06:31
From: Yumi Murakami Or that they are looking for help as to what they ought to do, and they are accusing people of other things in the hope they'll give out useful information in their defence. Hmmm. Where I am from, this technique is widely reffered to as "being a jerk".
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-14-2005 06:32
From: Cristiano Midnight Yeah there's a great strategy. Accuse people of things so that they can provide you with guidance. That is soooo much more effective than, say, asking, or better yet, doing your own thing instead of riding on someone's coattails snipping at their heels. Sure, it's a bad strategy. Nonetheless, people do it all the time. Although I will say that in my limited experience "doing your own thing" is somewhat overrated. To do most worthwhile things you're going to have to be in a group which means at least some compromise on "your own thing". And if there's coattails around to ride, it dosen't do much good to miss them: I owe most of my work to that 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 06:40
From: Yumi Murakami Sure, it's a bad strategy. Nonetheless, people do it all the time. Although I will say that in my limited experience "doing your own thing" is somewhat overrated. To do most worthwhile things you're going to have to be in a group which means at least some compromise on "your own thing". And if there's coattails around to ride, it dosen't do much good to miss them: I owe most of my work to that  Group or individual, I don't think originality is ever overrated. By doing your own thing, I meant trying to come up with something original instead of being derivative. Every within areas that are heavily developed already (for example, clothing design or animations), there is still tremendous room to come up with unique and innovative things. Version 1.7 just added all kinds of new possibilities for attachments, between HUD attachments and the ability for attachments to move and be altered via script. Some very cool things have already started appearing, and they will only get more advanced as time goes on. Does it become more and more challenging as SL grows to come up with new ideas, to be visible, and to be a "success"? Absolutely, though the same principles still apply. Opportunity rarely comes to you. When it does, be thankful for it and make the most of it. When it doesn't, go out and find it. All the energy spent detracting from others and blaming them for lack of success and insider perks and unfair advantage could be far better spent beating people at their own game.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-14-2005 06:54
From: Cristiano Midnight Version 1.7 just added all kinds of new possibilities for attachments, between HUD attachments and the ability for attachments to move and be altered via script. Some very cool things have already started appearing, and they will only get more advanced as time goes on. Sure. I know about this, since one of my better sellers has been a 1.7 dependant item (for which I typed the script in very.. slowly.. in the sandbox during the 'grey storm' in the hope of getting to market before the niche went  I think Philip Linden was still standing in the WA at the time checking how the upgrade was going  ) But the point is, still, that all of the originality and thought in the world isn't worth anything if no-one notices, and a neat way of getting people to notice is to find someone they're already noticing and get them to help you out with it, which in a sense constitutes "riding coattails". But again, my main bother is that - without insulting anyone else - I can confidently state that a fair amount of my own (albeit relatively minor) success has been due to luck or random factors. This does not mean I didn't do anything - it was basically the result of me hanging around in the sandbox, and on the Scripters group, trying to help out people who asked for stuff. But it wasn't a case of "hey, you're the gal who helps people with scripting, so.." as a reward for that general work; it was a case of me helping two people in particular who turned out to have or develop larger connections. If I'd logged in a few minutes earlier or later I'd never have met them, and I'm bothered by the thought there could be another newbie out there, just as good as or better than me, who doesn't get that because they missed it by a few moments.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 07:03
From: Yumi Murakami S But again, my main bother is that - without insulting anyone else - I can confidently state that a fair amount of my own (albeit relatively minor) success has been due to luck or random factors. This does not mean I didn't do anything - it was basically the result of me hanging around in the sandbox, and on the Scripters group, trying to help out people who asked for stuff. But it wasn't a case of "hey, you're the gal who helps people with scripting, so.." as a reward for that general work; it was a case of me helping two people in particular who turned out to have or develop larger connections. If I'd logged in a few minutes earlier or later I'd never have met them, and I'm bothered by the thought there could be another newbie out there, just as good as or better than me, who doesn't get that because they missed it by a few moments. Well, it depends upon how much stock you place in both fate and karma. Success is definitely about timing - some people have a knack for it. It is also about connections - meeting new people and learning from them can often open doors to new opportunity for you. Sometimes an innocuous choice you make right now can have a huge impact down the road. Again, it is how life works. It is interesting that you are so worried about the theoretical someone who might be out there, suffering in obscurity because you got there first. My answer to that would be that life is a series of moments - and it happened to be yours. When it is meant to be theirs, it will be, whether it is through their own actions, dumb luck, or being in the right place at the right time. There is someone else out there as good or better than you, than me, than everyone. We can only focus on being the best that we can be, and not hold ourselves back because of the potential of colliding with someone else's success.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 07:36
I just thought of example of someone with a knack for timing. How the hell does ReallyRick Metropolitan always know everything that is going on in SL simultaneously? He manages to out-Torley Torley, and I don't even think he uses a ROAM.
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MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
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11-14-2005 07:38
From: Cristiano Midnight I just thought of example of someone with a knack for timing. How the hell does ReallyRick Metropolitan always know everything that is going on in SL simultaneously? He manages to out-Torley Torley, and I don't even think he uses a ROAM. Remember when Torley took a break from SL...I could have sworn when RR showed up that he was Torley resurrected. I turned out to be wrong of course. Has Torley and RR met iw yet? MJ 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 07:43
From: MJ Hathor Remember when Torley took a break from SL...I could have sworn when RR showed up that he was Torley resurrected. I turned out to be wrong of course. Has Torley and RR met iw yet? MJ  LOL yes I remember your ReallyRick=Torley conspiracy theory.
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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11-14-2005 07:44
this thread is cancelled. please return to your regular scheduled programming
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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11-14-2005 08:03
I think it's time for cute pet pictures... who's first?
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-14-2005 08:05
From: Cristiano Midnight It is interesting that you are so worried about the theoretical someone who might be out there, suffering in obscurity because you got there first. My answer to that would be that life is a series of moments - and it happened to be yours. When it is meant to be theirs, it will be, whether it is through their own actions, dumb luck, or being in the right place at the right time. There is someone else out there as good or better than you, than me, than everyone. We can only focus on being the best that we can be, and not hold ourselves back because of the potential of colliding with someone else's success.
(nod) I'm not worried about "holding back my success to avoid colliding with someone else". What I'm worried about is the societal model that resulted in me being in that situation, of needing a break like that to get anywhere. You might say "it's how life works", but isn't life. "How Second Life works" is considerably more malleable, and we (or, at least, Linden Labs) have unique opportunities to vary and experiment with it. Here's an example I thought of. Suppose that, any time you saw an object on the grid, you could right click on it, choose "Upgrade" off the pie menu, and then drop your version of the same object, from your inventory, onto it. Nothing would change immediately, but the upgrade attempt would be noted and later a group of people would judge if your item was better and if so, yours would replace the one originally there. That would instantly change the model for "being noticed", and would encourage the grid to be a smaller area of optimal quality builds rather than different areas re-inventing the wheel over and over again. Its interaction with land ownership would be the problem, of course - but it's just an example that this is a world where we can change things like that, and it just strikes me as a bit sad to not ever try.
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Laquita Maracas
She's A Brick House
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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11-14-2005 08:21
Woops 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-14-2005 08:22
From: Yumi Murakami (nod)
I'm not worried about "holding back my success to avoid colliding with someone else". What I'm worried about is the societal model that resulted in me being in that situation, of needing a break like that to get anywhere. You might say "it's how life works", but isn't life. "How Second Life works" is considerably more malleable, and we (or, at least, Linden Labs) have unique opportunities to vary and experiment with it.
Your presumption is that the only way that you could have gotten anywhere is with that break, and I don't think that is the case. Of course, you will never know, because you were helped, but many many people who have made a name for themselves weren't. I don't think there is anything broken with the concept that needs fixing. In the model you continue to present, the only way to "fix" the problem is to make so no one receives anything that anyone else doesn't - that no one should be helped ever for they will have an unfair advantage that will disadvantage someone else.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-14-2005 08:29
Dammit, now I want to make themed areas with floating upgrade boxes over everything... I guess I'll wait till I'm a bit more stable financially in both L's 
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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11-14-2005 08:37
From: Ingrid Ingersoll I think it's time for cute pet pictures... who's first? 
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
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11-14-2005 08:54
From: CrystalShard Foo When I look at this situation, I cant help but ponder if the only way to avoid social drama and accusations is by avoiding success all together? No, simply avoid the people who cannot function without social drama. They're easy enough to pinpoint, they're the ones who start posts to 'discuss' 'issues' that either do not exist or only exist as a direct result of their manufacturing them.
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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11-14-2005 09:05
From: Cienna Samiam No, simply avoid the people who cannot function without social drama. They're easy enough to pinpoint, they're the ones who start posts to 'discuss' 'issues' that either do not exist or only exist as a direct result of their manufacturing them. I would agree but some people are quite agressive in their harassment. Once you get in their target sights you will find that even your most benign activity will bring a firestorm of very vocal attacks from a very tiny number of individuals. The attacks are also quite targeted, by the way. For example, if you gain press for a land business (Like Anshe's recent press discussed here: /108/7a/71301/1.html) you are relatively safe as the attackers in question are friends of that industry. But god help you if you are a content creator. 
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
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11-14-2005 09:32
From: Aimee Weber I would agree but some people are quite agressive in their harassment. Once you get in their target sights you will find that even your most benign activity will bring a firestorm of very vocal attacks from a very tiny number of individuals. Wisdom lies in understanding that volume does not equal veracity. From: Aimee Weber The attacks are also quite targeted, by the way. For example, if you gain press for a land business (Like Anshe's recent press discussed here: /108/7a/71301/1.html) you are relatively safe as the attackers in question are friends of that industry. But god help you if you are a content creator.  My comments were directed at the social drama queens of these forums. There are legitimate issues of harrassment that occur in a number of venues, regardless reason. There is quite a bit of difference in people being sought out and harrassed and people who walk into the room, take a shit in the middle of the floor, and then insist you've no reason, right, or legitmacy in being annoyed with them. Most people understand the difference and, if they think on it, can define why there IS a difference and what the behaviors are that drive the social drama queens. I fail to see how granting legitimacy in the social order to disruptive, self-absorbed, ultimately selfish people in any way fosters community... I now avoid the drama queens (except for, on rare occasion, underscoring that they are so). In case I'm still not clear enough -- this thread was started by a drama queen. It is being nourished and carefully cultivated by said drama queen. It exists only to shore up said drama queen's ego and help said drama queen feel better about themselves. You would think all these otherwise intelligent people would have learned by now that feeding this particular troll is a pointless and ultimately futile waste of time. It will not learn, it will not change, and it only knows that it can consistantly get attention from others here when it does this. Par for the course, really.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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11-14-2005 10:10
From: Cienna Samiam In case I'm still not clear enough -- this thread was started by a drama queen. It is being nourished and carefully cultivated by said drama queen. It exists only to shore up said drama queen's ego and help said drama queen feel better about themselves. You would think all these otherwise intelligent people would have learned by now that feeding this particular troll is a pointless and ultimately futile waste of time. It will not learn, it will not change, and it only knows that it can consistantly get attention from others here when it does this.
Par for the course, really. I could not agree more Cienna. I chuckled at the first part of your post, because my neighbor has a 2 year old (who is potty trained) which still shits on the living room floor for attention when someone visits.
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