SECONDTHOUGHTS: removing telehubs thoroughly sickens community leader

Agreed. Such a policy is common sense, which is why I just don't get the indignation of those who don't like both the positive AND negative sides of the coin to be discussed.

Some seem to think it's ok to discuss a banned person only if it's praise. They also seem to think it's ok to quote them and link to their blog, as long as the response is "right on dude!", yet these people are no doubt fully aware that the controversial figure they are quoting and praising upsets a number of people. Therefore this should be seen as trolling.

Losing? Aren't we all lost here?

Don't feel bad Pen, I missed it at first, I even posted about it and deleted said post, because right after I did, I saw the notation at the bottom of Sebastian's post.

That said, April is now playing a male known as Sebastian, so Sebastian should be referred to as "Sebastian" and "he", to maintain the pedantic consistency some crave, right?

While it's true it is in my signature, in all fairness I did ask to be called Sebastian and he. I guess Coco can only be considerate to Prok in this issue and continues to call me by April although I asked otherwise.

And yes Coco, it is hard to keep it straight, I just wanted to make this point because you seem to think it is easy for us to do so, but it isn't, is it?

I would now like to be referred to as "Her Royal Swankiness." (NOT Skankiness!)

Thank you for respecting my wishes, regardless of your own knowledge to the contrary or opinions.

Only if we can call you HRS for short!

I'll consider it.

Until then, anyone referring to me otherwise will be reported, written about libelously in a blog, and damned to an eternity of smelling of cat piss in my mind, where I live.

Thank you.

I think Proks blog should be advertised and linked all over...

Then again I also beleive the KKK should have a totally free and uninterupted hour long live TV show directly after Survivor.

Why?

Well everytime they open their mouths they shove both feet in it and show the world how f*cking stupid they are... They are thier own worst advertising.

Same applies.

Trying to find back to the original topic about removal of telehubs.... I support it, however for those who don't, let me ask you one thing.

When a friend says "hey, do you want to come over", they send you a teleport directly to their location, bypassing any telehubs.

So, why is that perfectly OK, but to be able to go directly to a place of your choosing through "Find" isnt?

I can't be bothered reading through 18 pages of probably mostly irrelevant drivel, but it seems to me the only people who are really protesting is those who paid through the nose for a piece of virtual land near a telehub.

When the real life property market crashes, you cut your losses and deal with it. I see no reason why the SL equivalent shouldn't happen, and why 99% of the game should be penalised because of 1% wanting to hold back progress.

Doesn't matter if you own huge amounts of land - that shouldn't give you any more bargaining power or sway of influence than someone like me with a small plot of land to call their own.

Sure, flame away if you like, but unless you have something constructive to say, keep it to yourself. Unless you can give a better explanation, it only shows I'm right. It's all about real money people have invested in a game.

Lewis

Let me first clarify that I'm a proponent of P2P. I just want to ask how you go from wanting to apply real life conditions relative to losing money in the real estate market to your position on being equal regardless of your financial investement. Most communities cater to large investors as do businesses irl. If you did a significant business with a company would you be surprised to have it acknowledged by a company? If you owned your own business, would it be a bad practice to consider your large and repeat customers and find ways to keep them satisfied?

Because at the end of the day, we are all equal in this game - nothing makes anyone any more important than anyone else.

I run a small store selling a few of my own creations, on a 1024 plot of land. I don't have a lot of traffic, I don't have a lot of customers, but those that do come have been pleased with their purchases.

Does that mean my contribution to the game isn't as valuable as a player with a huge mall that they sell hundreds of clones of the same bling, sexy clothing and everything else that *isn't* unique?

How is SL sold? "Your world, your imagination. A 3D digital online world imagined, created and owned by its residents". There's nothing there to say that your rl disposable income features in any way in this. I've seen some truly delightful little builds on small plots that, at least in my opinion, contribute far more than a huge lump of land full of flourescent purple prims, spinning naked pictures, snowstorms and "Impeach Bush" signs.

There are people who provide much more to the 'community' (if there even is one, so far I haven't found it) than a few big mouthed land barons who feel their voice is more important because they spend more money. When it comes to real life elections, Bill Gates gets one vote, just like someone living in a dilapidated trailer somewhere in East Boonies, just because Bill Gates has billions of dollars doesn't mean his vote is more important, does it?

Lewis

Money influences government more than the voting process. In SL, money and LL contacts gives you much more power than a perceived resident vote, of which there is no such thing. Money, like in real life, is power in SL.

If that's truly the case.... then Second Life is as corrupt as First Life.

Maybe I should make some "Impeach the Lindens" signs and sell those at my little store.

Lewis

I kept YOU straight, April. I was calling you April on purpose, cause I know you are only toying with me, and I want everyone to know it is you toying with me. I don't APPRECIATE being toyed with this way, April.

You know, I think you got a burr under your saddle or something stuck in your craw or something, but I really think all this gender business and/or Prok business and/or WHATEVER the heck is bothering you is just really bothering you way too much. It's getting in the way of you and me, for instance, and I don't think it is worth that.

coco

Remember, this is only a game...a diversion. You pay LL to play. Have fun with it. It's not a real country, after all.

You'll only sell to people who can't understand the difference between a democracy and a private business.

Which, given what I have read on these forums, is quite a bit of people. Cashcow, I suppose. Don't milk 'er too hard.

My point was in regards to the selective application of RL real estate losses on one hand juxtaposed with a desire to escape from RL inequalities on the other.

But in your previous post, money = power.

If my game is being negatively affected because more notice is taken of a small group of people, then isn't my fun being affected to?

Will the majority of the game's players have an improvement in their gameplay from p2p teleport? Of course. Majority rules.

Lewis

Without the minority of people who provide the majority of funding, the majority of people won't have a place to have fun. LL is a company not a virtual government.

And you don't think Prok was toying with us. I wasn't toying with you Coco, I was making a very clear point. That it isn't easy to keep pronouns clear once you know the truth about someone.

You are doing something similar to what Prok does, minimalizing someone's concerns by making it seem their concerns is an indication of a malfuntion. You are letting it get in the way of you and me. I have treated you with the utmost respect and you stil trivialize my concerns. I have done nothing wrong, I have not called you any names. I have only stated my concerns the best way I know how. Are you the only one to have concerns?

The fact that you continue to call me April just because you know I am April is the exact situation the rest of us find ourselves in with Prok and the pronoun game. Can you see this?

I will ask you again, please call me Sebastian and address me as my preferred gender. Or is this only a courtesy you allow Prok? If so I am saddened by this.

Of course it isn't easy to keep pronouns straight once you know the true gender of someone, and I've said so myself. But you know perfectly well that many here are purposely NOT keeping them straight, but using the undesired pronoun on purpose, and I don't believe in that.

Moreover, I consider it toying with me when people set up something as real, then it turns out they were really being ironic to prove some sort of convoluted point. A set-up, in other words. I don't have the kind of mind that is on the look-out for set-ups, and I hate to have my time wasted. When I have approached what someone says with sincerity and realize belatedly that they weren't sincere at all, I consider that a set-up, and toying with me and wasting my time.

I'm not saying the above paragraph so you can debate it. I'm saying it so you will know where I'm coming from. Your pretending to be sincere and me taking you as sincere, only to discover you've pulled a fast one on me, pisses me off. Not because it makes me look stupid - I could care less about that, and I'm proud to be a sincere, kind person - but because it has wasted my time. If you don't care where I'm coming from, fine - but I'm not out to debate it. If you can't bother to be kind to people you dislike - if in fact you go out of your way to be UNkind to them - well, I don't respect that.

As far as your desire to be known as "Sebastian" goes, I know and you know and everybody knows that you aren't sincere about it in the same way as a person playing a male avatar wants very much to be considered male. That trivializes that person's concern, and if you really want to trivialize it, then you need to focus on some of the OTHER people on these forums who also very much want to be treated as female, though they are really male, and vice versa.

And continuing to call you April because I know you are April - which you state it in every post, "The avatar formerly known as April," is not trivializing your concerns, because you don't HAVE any concerns to be known as Sebastian. You started the whole deal about Sebastian just to trivialize Prok's concerns, and I have no respect for that, nor any need to play along with that game. If I thought you really wanted to be called Sebastian, of course, I would do so. And I have done so, in fact, in all other threads but this one, where I want the hasty reader to know who it is I am responding to in this instance.

You are STILL playing that game in this whole post copied in my post here, and, I suspect, you are still toying with me, and I'm not going to play it with you. And I'm not going to argue it with you. People need to let other people be who they are, which includes being what they want to be.

Regardless of whether you like that individual or not. I have no respect for this particular behavior of yours, April. I think you should let it go.

coco

If the entire financial basis of SL is based on the land barons speculating to make a profit, then I'd say that it was in a pretty dicey situation to be honest.

It should be regular income from paid monthly accounts that form the majority of what keeps SL going, rather than half a dozen people paying thousands a month out of their profits.

Apart from first land, is it possible to buy anything directly from a Linden?

Lewis

So how do we know Prok is sincere if real life information is still being posted. There was a big deal made over it being revealed yet when a magazine comes along, it is revealed almost without thought.

I still say the issue is moot, and that Prok is toying with us.

And who are you to determine whether I am sincere. How do you know that I have not always wanted to be male? Why do I have to justify my position to you to be taken sincerely? When has Prok made the issue that the pronoun is so important? And why is my concerns take much lighter? You seem to trivialize everyone's concerns but yours and Prok's? Why is this fair.

Why so much anger over this? Why can't you call me Sebastian after I have pleaded with you to do so? Anytime anyone calls you other than what you want to be called, you make a big issue. Am I not as valuable as you are? Why is it when you do it, you are right, but when others do it they are automatically wrong and have some kind of hidden agenda?

Yes I have that in my signature, just so the issues aren't confused and people know who I was, but I have directly asked you to address me as Sebastian and you have blatantly refused. Prok's real name is in a national publication and you want us to overlook that. What is the difference? Again I ask, is only Prok's desires important and mine not?

Again, you trivialize everyone else's concern's by calling my concerns playing. I am sadden by this.

I think people should be referred to by their preferred identity. In my mind, calling Sebastian by the wrong name is just as bad as calling Prokofy by the wrong gender. I don't know why anybody would do that.

Tier (rent on your land) goes directly to LL. Whether you pay it directly or pay it in rent, the result is the same. And that's a bigger slice for LL than whatever they get from the auction.

Last night I found a plot of land that was good enough and unlikely enough to get enclosed and encroached on to make it attractive to me, but luckily I was able to talk myself out of it... the US$250 was a big enough hit, but having to pay US$40 a month to keep it made that initial cost almost irrelevant.

Those $9.95 a month member fees? Those are the rent on that First Land plot whether you keep it or not... the cost of the First Land itself is more than covered by your stipend and the 7th day bonus. ALL the income for Linden labs comes from virtual land rent, directly or indirectly. When you "buy land" from a land speculator, part of that money you paid has already been spent on the rent on the land between the time they bought it and the time you buy it from them. When you rent on the mainland or on an island, you're paying someone's tier.