How often do you see yourself using v-chat? A more detailed Poll

As Ayn Rand taught me, check your assumptions.

Who said SL is for traditional gamers and computer geeks? Of the 50+ friends on my list, two know how to script. One of them could tell you what WOW stands for.

Ooh, I'd attack that obvious Trolling remark but instead I think I might get up off the sofa and finally go to my assertiveness class at the Y. But what if they won't like me when I get there?

Here's a thought: With voice chat, this discussion (especially between two of its posters) would probably descend into a shouting match. Thankfully, with type, one has to wait one's turn. And the "discussion" lasts longer! So now I can pop another bag of corn!!!!

Don't put words into my mouth. You've misinterpreted my post, and have skewed it for others to see.

I said:

"VOIP is a technology that 90% of all gamers and computer geeks want...I find it hard to believe that those numbers are actually switched in Second Life...to be honest, I think the numbers here are skewed...either that or Second Life houses some of the laziest, most insecure people on the planet..."

The insecure/lazy part was more of a joke actually. Clearly it was a hyperbole. But I think I made my points.

You can't quote me starting with that slander...lol...then it's taken out of context. I said to start, "Either that or..."

It was a hyperbole...an exaggeration...a joke. Sorry...don't take me for a troll...

And I am not assuming...I've been into VRML, gaming, 3d design, and computers for quite a long time...and I would bet my second toe (no pun intended) that the majority of people want to have the OPTION to talk if they want to...

hehe I know you're not referring to me! Everyone who knows me IRL knows I'm not a yeller. I may get into heated debate, but I am always calm.

Also, responding to colette's little jabs wouldn't take up so much space if we did it in talk!

Maybe we should have a debate on voice!!! That woudl be interesting!

My land has voice and has an area where we could host it!

Wadaya say Colette? I'll talk and you can type if you don't want to talk!

By the way...I love how you accuse me of assuming...then you assume I will YELL on voice chat...

I'm a 30 year old, educated, passive guy...I would do no such thing.

I was repeating MYSELF .. theres a difference.



Since you expressed enthusiasm for irritating me just the other day, why exactly are you complaining that you suceeded in irritating me?



Its not that I dont like new technology I dont like new features that have large social ramifications that are introduced without any concern given to those ramifications.



Nor as good as its proponents think.



Potentially true. There are some drawbacks to technologies which encourage administrators to remove Real Live classrooms.



This is true,
However it is easier to tell WHO was saying objectionable things with text.



This is what I mean by ostrich mentality- it ignores the fact that people will be pressured to use voice. Object's post was a good example of what will become more common.



I never claimed whether it will happen has anything to do with me not liking you. I have simply claimed it happens, and will continue to happen.

On the one plus side for voice chat (there might be others...): we could have heard the hyberbole and exaggeration in your voice and there would have been no miscommunication. (Email at work can be a great source for bad communication.)Agreed. In fact, it's been available for quite some time in SL, although I think it was much more complicated to set up, so that may be why it was/is a bust. I don't know but two people who opted into that and they are both DJs.

In voice Id have been screaming at you by now - and Id have stopped using little barbs pretty early and moved on to direct insults.

So no, you are better off this way.

Ramifications that have yet to actually be seen...especially by people who aren't actually using voice.




That's irrelevant because all the "proponent" arguements I've seen and made have had more to do with potential than predicting results.



Glass is half full, eh Colette?

What is more likely to happen (based on what we've already seen with video conferencing technology) is it will benefit people who can't make it to classrooms for whatever reason...perhaps due to a handicap? Perhaps because of financial or logistical reasons?




I've been in large groups talking before and you can tell who's talking. There's a white dot that has green things around it when someone talks. Also, I think a level of anonymity (which griefers rely on in general) will be taken away thus making it harder for a griefer to get away with it...plus as someone mentioned above, talking back to someone woudl have quite a different effect than "typing" back.



No one is ignoring the possibility of people being pressured for not using voice but how is that different from the current situation that some people get pressured to have SL sex? Like someone posted above it all boils down to where you hang out and who you choose to hang out with. It's not an excuse to hinder progress.

For every anecdote someone has for feeling pressured by someone to use voice I can come up with one for a situation where voice people accomidated someone who only wanted to type.



No but you can't deny the fact that not liking me has been a major motivation in a lot of your posts...especially the ones that don't give any useful information and only serve to attempt to insult me.

At least my irritating you is a result of my personality and how I explain my point of view. I hold no ill will towards you.

So how about that voice debate in-world?

Well considering what you've been dishing out I don't think I have much to worry about.

Come on, we'll have rules and a moderator and an audience. It'll be fun!

Maybe we'll make some beautiful SL history together!!

Just to interject an anecdote into this discussion (before the lock that I suspect may be coming), this is an actual incident that occurred on the Lusk platform this morning (name redacted to stay within the ToS here):

An avatar hovers below and then above the Lusk platform (where voice has been activated by LL, but we have chosen to disable it where most people congregate), and begins the following diatribe, directed at the crowd in general:

"Name Redacted: everyone needs to use sl VOICE so men cannot impersoante women etc, i have got it
:
Name Redacted: EVERYONE MUST USE SECOND LIFE VOICE NOW,TO HELP REDUCE GAY TRICKERY AND PROVE MAN OR WOMAN"

At that point this person was asked to desist, as their remarks were perceived by some as rather intolerant (I won't attempt to dissect the 'GAY TRICKERY' remark, though others here are certainly welcome to do so).

Now, we do have some areas set aside where folks may use voice if they wish... but our experiences with voice on the Lusk platform on the Beta Grid led us to the conclusion that it was not suitable for the dynamics of the place... I won't go into detail, but it's not uncommon for us to have a live DJ and a crowd of 30 or more there, dancing, chatting, submitting song requests, etc. - and our experience was that Voice Chat just threw a wrench into the works.

So... the above 'visit' (by someone who'd never been to the place before, to my knowledge) isn't a conjecture about something that _might_ happen... it's something that _did_ happen. The impact (for us)? Not much. That person was asked to take their opinion elsewhere. The relevance to this discussion? I think it may have some... but I'll let the rest of you determine what, and how much.

Have fun!

I don't think he needed voice as a reason to say those things. If it wasn't voice then it would be "EVERYONE NEEDS TO PUT A RL PICTURE ON THEIR 1ST LIFE PROFILE...". I doubt that was the first time that person had done something like that.

I agree with the DJ thing (I'm a DJ IRL as well as on occasion in SL so I know this issue very well!) and also think voice should be deactivated in areas of regular roleplay (sexual or otherwise) to keep the mood, but these aren't good reasons to be afraid of voice alltogether.

I would like to see a poll on this that just people say from v1.1-v1.2 vote

Again you ignore what has happened to people. Please go back and read Object's post. In addition I personally have been harassed reguarding voice before, both reguarding team speak and this new SL voice.



Its relevant to me. It seems to be relevant to others.



I have recently taken classes at our community college. Many of the classes arent even being offered in person any more (60% school wide). The price for the online course is the same as the real live ones. Theres continued emphasis on the part of the adminsitration to make more and more courses online if possible. Basically they see it as a proffit windfall. The quality of education - as expressed by professional educators involved who teach the offline and online courses is inferior and the failure rate is higher.

So no the Educational benefits are not automatically a possitive.

What they are is a conditional possitive. Assuming care is taken not to allow educational quality to slip. Education made availble to people who would not otherwise recieve it , is of coruse a possitive.



Again Voice is already coming so these no excuse to hinder progress being made.

Adding pressure that people have to face isnt good. Its like saying . 'Well people are already harrassed so its okay to harrass them more'



So what? You coming up with examples of people with manners doesnt mean people who lack them dont exist.



No - when I said I was one of your biggest detractors I meant often I disagree with you. Your opinions do not influence mine, nor are they my motivation.

I do not like the smug attitude which so often ignores how other people think about things and constant attempts to tell people to stop complaining.

I was specifically stating , however, that just becuase I disagree with you doesnt mean Im one of the staunchest anti-voice people in the forums. Becuase that simply isnt true. Im just "vocal" about the problems that I DO see.

Come on, Colette. Debate me on voice! We'll have the following...

1) a nice, tiny island in a low population sim to debate at. I have a nice big deck on the top of my bunker that we could set up 2 podiums and bench seats for anyone that wants to come.

2) a moderator and rules to be agreed upon by both of us

3) a Q&A session if anyone wants, although I don't see the point...but it's "optional"

It's the perfect opportunity to bring attention to the concerns you have! If I'm wrong then you'll have nothing to fear except v-chat itself!

Come on, Colette, it'll be fun!!

You are asuming Id ever want to actually see you.

You shouldnt.

Don't be afraid, Colette. Don't fear the reaper! It's not like I really want to be around you, either, but this is bigger than me...

We could make it a publicized event to make people aware of all the social implications you think are going to come to pass with v-chat.

I voted never. Seems like more troble than it's worth.

Part of the beauty of an environment like this is that you can be multi-tasking in RL while you play in cyber-space. Having the voice thing going will cut back on that ability.

Brandi...xxx

So much for the claim that you'll type around non-voicers.

You can't keep your story straight over one page of text can you? You go from being forthcoming and blunt in this post to "passive" a couple of posts later - by your own description. Then you furiously backpedal when Colette shows you the words "lazy" and "insecure" coming out of your own mouth about non-voicers implying there are multiple interpretations of those words in the context you used. Which there are not. The pro-voice crowd on this board are all a bunch of Ollie Norths when it comes to taking responsibility for what they say.

You prattle on about what "hardcore gamers" must invariably think of voice and use your countless years of computer experience as proof. you blow right by people like me who were learning Level I Basic and avidly playing games that loaded off of cassette tapes on their TRS-80s the same year you were born who DO NOT see voice as either inevitable or mandatory for any and I repeat ANY gaming experience. Not one deathmatch. Not one CRPG. Not one Rainbow Six or Ultima, or Wizardry session all the way back to friggin Zork and Santa Paravia have I ever played where anyone whined this loud about not having voice.

You use the term lazy to describe non-voicers and then demonstrate laziness of your own by arrogantly chalking up an entire list of people's possible reasons to not voice as ridiculous, coming up with your own little convenient explanation and then attempting to sell it to everyone listening.

Attitudes like yours are my problem with voice. If you can't even take responsibility for your words, beliefs, and actions on this thread over one page why in the name of God would I want to listen to anything you vocalize? So I can hear the words spawned by such a haughty and intolerant mindset? So I can hear your shoulder-shrugging Frogger-like evasions and spin-doctoring vocalized? Miss me with that.

Gonna accuse me of flaming too like you did Colette? /me shrugs her shoulders...eyes fixed and wide, mouth twisted into a grimace.

To SqueezeOne : We recently opened up a productive dialogue about what voicers can do to help ease the transition of reticent non-voicers; this after we had a discussion like this of our own. What I was asking you before is when mentalities such as this are put in a position to turn people off to the whole concept of voice, in-game, will the voice community lift a finger to try and mediate? Does it care at all, about the message these people are sending? Or will it keep on signing off on this?

Kicking and screaming will only make you look like more of a psychotic mental case. Please. Sell your computer and go outside.

And squeeze, it is unfortunate that debate typically = arguments and bashing. There are few people I know who can actually debate -- and sadly I know only 2 in SL.

Fact of the matter is, there is a huge number of folks who are mental cases and escape to SL to "be somebody!". That has been the trend since the early chat room days in the Nineties. I believe the term is "troll". It is unfortunate that its hard to find people who are mentally balanced and able to have a conversation with someone. Though, I guess that's my big PRO of voice chat. People can hide behind their text and BS people that they're female, smart, articulate, and not a complete wack-job; whereas, with voice it's easier weed through it -- almost as easy as it is on the forums.

Ha, read that and laughed in agreement... but nevermind. Then saw your name. I'm quite a Siouxsie fan (seen her 5 times).


(No, I'm not hitting on you. I'm married, I'm just saying.)

K. SqueezeOne. My viewpoint:

1. You have said time and time again that non-voicers concerns are based on speculation, and are therefore not worthy of consideration. This is one of the most basic and fundamental pillars of your argument. You have gone even farther by saying that you have heard no real proof to the contrary.

2. You paste in firsthand, indisputable proof. Rather than admit it for what it is, you spin it.

3. (speculative) Later you will be heard from claiming that you have yet to hear any in-game experiences justifying or supporting the voice pressuring concern.

Please point out the inaccurate statement. I wouldn't jump on #3 if I were you just because it's speculative. If it turns out to be accurate later, you will have hung your entire platform out to dry.

perhaps you should pluck that bridge out your eye before pointing out the splinter in someone elses

sighs, "blows whistle" illegal use of past references, hands, and grudge holding, 5 yard penalty