Difference between verbal griefing and the right to be hatefull?
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Ravanne Sullivan
Pole Dancer Extraordinair
Join date: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 674
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06-25-2007 14:48
From: Aleister Montgomery People like army instructors or football coaches often belong to a genetic phenotype that was no longer needed when the human race stopped throwing heavy or pointy things at animals in order to kill them and started to breed lifestock. But they never go extinct, because they always elbow themselves into a position of power and always manage to find some poor, shy woman who falls for the chauvinistic caveman type, whom they can elbow around in the bedroom in order to breed more close-minded knuckleheads. That type of person gets away with insults and hate speech (e.g, "Are you f***ing f*gs or sissies?!?"  on a level that no other person could risk. If an employer treated his employees that way, they could sue his *ss off. Such behaviour doesn't "strenghten" anyone. It breaks people. Of course it seperates those who are easily broken from those who can't be broken, but for the price of the former being emotionally scarred and the latter being turned into intolerate knuckleheads themselves. I'm all for free speech, but strongly against abuse and misuse of power. Its obvious from this that you have no clue just what a drill instructor does. They do not use insults or hate speech. In fact if they did the military would get rid of them quickly as they would be useless in their job. And they do not want to break people, a broken person would be useless as a warrior. What they do do is break down the individual stubborness that keeps people from acting as an effective team. They give their trainees a common enemy that they can pull together to overcome. They also weed out the people who do break as individuals and are too weak of personality to withstand the rigors of military service. Beforte disparaging a group it might behoove you to actually know something about them and to not attack them from a position of ignorance. |
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
Posts: 2,114
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06-25-2007 15:05
From: Reitsuki Kojima Knowledge + Unintelligibility = Failure to spread knowledge. only dim bulbs can't glow...i sparkle and shine all through The MFSL (that's mother-you-know-whatin-second life for all the various unelightened sliprocks in the world) don't play crazy...don't play dumb with me...get yourself together...and try to learn somethin...better ya self! lurkin around in forums sayin silly shizzy aint helpin nobody... i'm on a mission to save the world! spreadin knowledge love and joy all throughout the mfsl! step up or step back! but make ya feet hop! beeyotch!
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Ya girlfriend says she loves meh! But it's just the jewlreh! Multicolored carots got ya girlfriend kinda curious!
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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06-25-2007 16:49
From: Jumpman Lane lurkin around in forums sayin silly shizzy aint helpin nobody.
Says the King of Silly Shizzy... 
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~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Sunspot Pixie
dread heliotrope
Join date: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 493
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06-25-2007 17:10
From: Cocoanut Koala Yes, I was thinking you were operating out of a sort of tough love concept, or the army sergeant mode.
But I don't think that actually works well, outside of, perhaps, the army or football, where incurring wrath of your learners is actually a useful tool, because you are trying to create a state of aggression that can be turned on or off as necessary.
In other realms, that kind of toughness (or humiliation) does not work well in teaching. And the Resident Answers forum is, at base, for teaching.
coco Additionally, no one I know of, including myself, signed up for SL to be a participant in Kyrah Abbatoir's Basic Training Camp. People who join an athletic team or the Army CHOOSE to subject themselves to that sort of thing. In short, Kyrah, you're not our coach, you're not our sergeant, you are just another SLer, but the fact that you liken your behaviour here to those professions is very informative indeed.... Maybe you should petition LL to put a warning on these forums that they are to be considered a "School of Hard-knocks" if you want to run the place like boot camp. Or apply to be a resident moderator? I agree about the stuff in schools today - wanting to eliminate "Fail" and not keeping score during physical education class, etc. - I think it's ridiculous. HOWEVER - that in no way relates to behaving with common civility, and in NO WAY makes people who try to promote common civility a a bunch of "Bambis". Good grief!
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
Posts: 2,114
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06-25-2007 17:24
From: Ann Launay Says the King of Silly Shizzy... get on ya knees...bow down 2 da king
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Ya girlfriend says she loves meh! But it's just the jewlreh! Multicolored carots got ya girlfriend kinda curious!
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Kismet Karuna
Tosser
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 195
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06-25-2007 17:28
From: Ravanne Sullivan Its obvious from this that you have no clue just what a drill instructor does. They do not use insults or hate speech. In fact if they did the military would get rid of them quickly as they would be useless in their job. And they do not want to break people, a broken person would be useless as a warrior. What they do do is break down the individual stubborness that keeps people from acting as an effective team. They give their trainees a common enemy that they can pull together to overcome. They also weed out the people who do break as individuals and are too weak of personality to withstand the rigors of military service. Beforte disparaging a group it might behoove you to actually know something about them and to not attack them from a position of ignorance. While I agree with the main thrust of this post, drill instructors do insult. They sure as heck did when I went through US Army Basic, they did when my father went into the Marines, (and how!) and they did when my two younger cousins went in the Navy and Army a few years ago. Maybe you're thinking Air Force Basic? Insults that I was personally called? Sissy, maggot, HITLER - yes Hitler by a drill Sgt. from the next platoon because he found out I speak German, (and had a German last name) and he had some sort of rage still brewing in him over his ex-wife, a German girl whom he met while stationed in Germany. Also, it does take a special person to be a drill instructor, there is no question about it, my stepfather was an Army Drill during the Vietnam war and yeah, he WAS special - growing up with him around was well, you can imagine.  Now, whether or not that's due to genetic predisposition, environment, or a combo of both, is obviously open to discussion. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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06-25-2007 17:42
From: Xio Jester Being a born & bred American who lives in an environment where politeness is often seen as weakness, and deserving of disrespect/punishment, I agree.
Folks use the term "grief" waaay too much. If this was a mainly American message board, you better believe that the majority of current "forum addicts"/frequent posters would post a LOT less, if at all. Hell, how many folks play an MMORPG with a mostly American population? Lotta "griefers"? Thought so. Happens *shrug*, it's not "the end of the World".
I hate the fact that they even have this ...name... "grief-ers". Do they hurt you so bad that you actually feel "grief"? Like when a relative dies? lol...let's hope not. I'm all for abolishing that "tag"...but it ain't gonna happen...just like a World full of politeness ain't gonna happen.
Take a breath, and use your wit/sense of humor, intelligence, maturity or if you MUST, an AR or TP to deal with..."griefers".
(...and "for the record", no...I didn't say it's immature to AR abusive users every once in a while.) Where IS this place where politeness is seen as weakness, and encourages disrespect and punishment? And among what age group? That is just totally off the wall. I've lived in many places in the U.S. (I am American), and mingled in all SORTS of socioeconomic circles. Just walk around in any major city. Whoever this group is that views politeness as weakness is a very small group. coco |
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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06-25-2007 17:46
From: Jumpman Lane get on ya knees...bow down 2 da king Never going to happen...but have a nice day. 
_____________________
~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Aaron Edelweiss
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 115
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06-25-2007 17:49
From: Kyrah Abattoir Okay this is probably just a random thinking, but i was wondering if peoples where considering being hatefull was a form of griefing.
And if no, where does it start and where does it end.
I see a lot of peoples in SL and on these forums that seems not to understand that someone can simply be hatefull with them without having any specific needs to grief them. you can hate all you want in your own mind. When you open your mouth, it becomes griefing. |
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Sunspot Pixie
dread heliotrope
Join date: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 493
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06-25-2007 18:07
Hay Gais I Wear My Pants Backwardz! Lookit Meeeee!
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If we eat our soup in the rain, we'll never run out...
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
Posts: 2,114
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06-25-2007 21:24
From: Ann Launay Never going to happen...but have a nice day. heard it all before...don't you know who i am...just like juggy...i'll tell ya... Im the gawd d@m jumpman, beeyotch...i keep hoes knees dirty! tell that shizzy to ya self to sleep unfitful at night... but Jumpy knows better trizick! I bring tha ho outta ho-hopin hoes... zipper-drop quick! Trick!
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Ya girlfriend says she loves meh! But it's just the jewlreh! Multicolored carots got ya girlfriend kinda curious!
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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06-25-2007 21:27
From: Jumpman Lane heard it all before...don't you know who i am...just like juggy...i'll tell ya...
Im the gawd d@m jumpman, beeyotch...i keep hoes knees dirty!
tell that shizzy to ya self to sleep unfitful at night...
but Jumpy knows better trizick!
I bring tha ho outta ho-hopin hoes...
zipper-drop quick!
Trick! Jumpy, you just got here and you already jumped the shark. That shizzy shtick is older than my greatgrandmama's breeyotches.
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
Posts: 2,114
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06-25-2007 21:28
From: Aaron Edelweiss you can hate all you want in your own mind. When you open your mouth, it becomes griefing. Linden labs doesnt think so..it's why ya never see your tormentors in the blotter...why the blotter is anonymous...and just when you think you've won...some fresh made avi with spectacular weapons is he he ing in your face...short of a sim-shut downs, the Lindens do;'t (and most properly should not) care about your petty squabbly arguments.
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Ya girlfriend says she loves meh! But it's just the jewlreh! Multicolored carots got ya girlfriend kinda curious!
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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06-25-2007 21:53
From: Raymond Figtree Jumpy, you just got here and you already jumped the shark. That shizzy shtick is older than my greatgrandmama's breeyotches. $100L says he's under 16 ......
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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06-25-2007 21:53
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Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Sunspot Pixie
dread heliotrope
Join date: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 493
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06-25-2007 22:30
Yes, very interesting. Thanks Raymond. I loved this part: "Don't let assholes rent space in your head." Willpower why hath thou abandoned me!?
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If we eat our soup in the rain, we'll never run out...
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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06-25-2007 22:34
From: Sunspot Pixie Yes, very interesting. Thanks Raymond.
I loved this part: "Don't let assholes rent space in your head."
Willpower why hath thou abandoned me!? If you do let them rent space, make sure they don't go over their prim allotment. Another favorite quote of mine from elsewhere is "harboring a resentment is like taking poison hoping the other person will die".
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Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
Posts: 2,114
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06-26-2007 01:36
From: Raymond Figtree Jumpy, you just got here and you already jumped the shark. That shizzy shtick is older than my greatgrandmama's breeyotches. jump I N a shark! i aint tryin to here that bull shizzy! one of ya snitch-trick rat-fink beeyotches would surely drop a dime to a Linden if i used my usual locutions...so i switch it up for the soft, the squisy, and the tender hearted... surely ya realize this... slippery slippery sliprock!!!!
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Ya girlfriend says she loves meh! But it's just the jewlreh! Multicolored carots got ya girlfriend kinda curious!
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Aaron Edelweiss
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 115
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06-26-2007 02:34
From: Jumpman Lane Linden labs doesnt think so..it's why ya never see your tormentors in the blotter...why the blotter is anonymous...and just when you think you've won...some fresh made avi with spectacular weapons is he he ing in your face...short of a sim-shut downs, the Lindens do;'t (and most properly should not) care about your petty squabbly arguments. Wasn't attempting to define LL's position, nor have I been griefed, hate based or otherwise. The original post seemed to be asking the difference between hate and griefing. I defined it in the simplest way I know how. I'm not clear on your last couple of sentences. Perhaps I missed some context? |
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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06-26-2007 03:06
"Many's the time I've found myself neglecting a warm bed, a hot meal, or a chance to go out for a cup of coffee with a friend in order to answer some mean-spirited note from some 16-year-old mouth-breather who achieves transcendence only through pointless debate with strangers." Really funny about the mouth-breathing, but sad about the writer missing out on life. He knows it's pointless. He knows he's hurting his real life, so why does he do it? He writes: "For many of us, our psyche demands that these insults be met and overcome." This seems to be a case of an apparently intelligent person being a helpless serial victim of his own psyche. He knows it's happening, but he can't stop himself. "met *and overcome*" ? He deluded Repeat after me: Never wrestle with a pig. The pig enjoys it, and you just get covered in muck. |
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Sunspot Pixie
dread heliotrope
Join date: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 493
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06-26-2007 03:55
From: Jumpman Lane jump I N a shark! i aint tryin to here that bull shizzy! one of ya snitch-trick rat-fink beeyotches would surely drop a dime to a Linden if i used my usual locutions...so i switch it up for the soft, the squisy, and the tender hearted...
surely ya realize this...
slippery slippery sliprock!!!! Yo man you not EVEN a good poseh Yo! You ain't legit Yo! Don' be front'IN nah. Hey Yo mah do'bell be playin' the melody to Nobody Move biatch! Fo' sheezy! DAT SHIT TIGHT YO! 
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If we eat our soup in the rain, we'll never run out...
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Cortex Draper
Registered User
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 406
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06-26-2007 04:54
From: Kyrah Abattoir Lets turn it upside down. Why would we always have to be nice? Because in RL people who are hateful eventually get beaten up or murdered when they insult the wrong person. And no-one will morn their passing. Of course on the internet they can cowardly hide behind the safety of their screens and insult everyone. |
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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06-26-2007 07:04
From: Jumpman Lane one of ya snitch-trick rat-fink beeyotches would surely drop a dime to a Linden if i used my usual locutions...so i switch it up for the soft, the squisy, and the tender hearted... Time to play "Guess that Alt". Whoever you are, I hope this new persona is temporary. It's about as funny as a rerun of "What's Happening Now".
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Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
Posts: 2,114
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06-26-2007 08:17
From: Sunspot Pixie Yo man you not EVEN a good poseh Yo! You ain't legit Yo! Don' be front'IN nah. Hey Yo mah do'bell be playin' the melody to Nobody Move biatch! Fo' sheezy! DAT SHIT TIGHT YO! you R E A L LY don't know who I am! playboy... i'm real as it gets! you ain't even walkin round me rl! square biz beeyotch! fall dead ,cime back and fall dead again, Jumpy ressurectin hoes... might as well B E god in your world
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Ya girlfriend says she loves meh! But it's just the jewlreh! Multicolored carots got ya girlfriend kinda curious!
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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06-26-2007 08:18
From: Raymond Figtree Time to play "Guess that Alt". Whoever you are, I hope this new persona is temporary. It's about as funny as a rerun of "What's Happening Now". I dunno Jumpman is so totally ridiculous it can be amusing. Its not like theres a lot of comedy competition round here. It helps to know Jumpman is whiter than Vanillia Ice, sort of SL's version of Malibu's most wanted. Of course if he was less obviously silly - the things he says would actually be offensive, so Im not sure wed want that. |