Can "rape" occur in SL?

...which goes with what I was saying about how they want to keep from having definite rules and pretty much have the community's collective consience be our guide.

By stating in other areas (the infamous "Broadly Offensive" blog was one) that ageplay and rape RP will not be allowed they are actually taking a stand on those particular situations.

They need to do that more to keep people from assuming and misinterpreting what LL means by things.

What do you expect when their own corespondence contradicts itself.

Actually they have mentioned specifically (well, specifically for LL) what "broadly offensive" includes. If you watch that video by Daniel you'll hear the most pronounced explanation of that policy that I've seen to date.

I agree that they need to be more clear in one official posting of the situation, but it's easy to piece together from various areas Lindens have spoken about it.

Also, consensus of the 10 people on the forums doesn't matter...just ask LL!

I personally would like to see people left alone in SL as long as they're in their private space with willing adult participants.

But.

I understand arguments being made on both sides. What I think everyone in this argument needs to realize is that life RARELY serves up circumstances that are black and white. RARELY is anything going to be turn out to be Truth with that capital T, not only because circumstances vary greatly due to infinite nuance, but because some things just don't have any 'right answer'. In fact, sometimes, we have to cut losses and choose the lesser of two evils. Sometimes there is even no palatable way out. Life is like that.

We do not live in an afternoon TV special where the moral is handed out in a pat fashion and there is always a good solution.

We do live in a world where legalities, freedoms, safeties, sciences, test results, etc. etc. are tested, debated, reformed, and discarded in a never ending cycle. While it may feel satisfying to take a side in this argument that insinuates that there is an obvious right and wrong that makes the other folks 'wrong', it serves no good purpose other than the exercise of debate itself.

LL needs to find a way that floats them in a practical fashion through this quagmire as a business, and that's the bottom line for them. We can try to help them see our point of view on ethical matters but ultimately they have to try not to get sued too much, try not to be fighting criminal charges, and try to keep customers, all at the same time.

Trying to determine the Universe's Ultimate Truth Regarding Sex/Minors/Freedom/Safety is simply out of their scope and may not in the end help them survive as a business.

If we all want to debate it, that's great, but none of us have the ultimate answer here and we'd all do well to remember that as we formulate our responses to other people, or when we want to curse Linden Labs for being the next Reich.

You are a bit of a goalpost mover Squeeze - YOU are the one who used other threads in YOUR argument. So a presumed consensus of people on the forums was YOUR implication.

I watched the video I read the Blog and Ive read the Community standards = All three use the term Broadly Offensive => but all 3 do not agree on what Broadly offensive means nor where its allowed if at all.

I agree the Video is more in line with the Blog Post rather than the CS.

Quoted to show how the goalposts got moved.

If the two adults are consenting, there's hardly a sex offense going on.

True, if someone has the impulse to act out a desire to rape — actual, real rape — in real life, the person should seek some sort of treatment. Do you think banning consensual play in SL is going to convince them to do that? Honestly?

I really don't think they're contradicting themselves that greatly, though. Sure things have been worded in ways that seem to go against previous statements, but overall I think it's pretty clear...

"If enough people find it offensive and it is a legitimate concern (by LL's judgement) then steps will be taken to make the concern not be a concern anymore."

Common sense among the professional complainers and nit-pickers would be handy, too. Obviously they aren't going to ban homosexuality or simply being a child-esque av (some of the things I've heard people speculate on). If a mob of people decided furries were offensive I don't think they'd be banned because people in LL aren't so oblivious that they would go along with that. There are no legitimate legal repercussions from being a furry.

LL recognizes that there could be for recreational rape simulation.

It definitely makes sense from a business point of view.

It has been addressed in multiple threads because I addressed it in multiple threads and have yet to be shown differently.

I also don't see how the "goalposts" have been moved. Just because people choose to ignore facts doesn't mean the facts haven't been presented.

No, but by the same token I don't think there are many residents in SL who are qualified to see themselves as therapists in treating people who have a desire to carry out actual, real rape. I doubt very much whether getting their kicks in SL will prevent them from carrying out a real rape.

Two consenting adults who know it's a fantasy, more power to their elbow.

So, for the sake of the one potential rapist who may be using SL as a way to contain his or her urges, would you ban it for everyone?

And FYI, I am in a master's level program to become a counselor with an eye towards a specialization as a sex therapist. So, hrug:

If the best thing someone with urges to rape someone can come up with to curb this desire is to play SL then that person is already too deep. Banning or not banning him isn't going to make a difference.

This implies that you agree with the OP where LL could be potentially blamed for someone's raping spree because of un-expected downtime. I hope your classes go well!

It absolutely does not imply that. No one is to be held responsible for their actions but the actor him/herself.

On the whole, though, I believe venting emotions of any kind in a safe environment like SL, where no one can be forced to do anything and no one can get hurt (at least physically) is preferable to bottling up those feelings. When that happens, emotions and urges often surface in ways that aren't always so harmless.

My point is that if people have an urge to rape, using that as an excuse to allow rape play in SL is not a good argument.

As I said, I don't actually have a problem with people who want to enact that fantasy, fantasy being the key word. As a treatment, I'm not at all happy about it.



Like I said, very few residents are qualified

Can't we just live in harmony without finger pointing everything we don't like?

I don't get why so many peoples think they are qualified to define what is morally right or wrong.

Fundamentally nothing is wrong or right as long as it doesn't make any victim.

Oh quit being so sensible.

haha...how can the idea of nothing being right or wrong be fundamental? Fundamentalism implies absolutes...which your statement implies doesn't exist.

I will agree that we aren't qualified to decide what's write or wrong for others because we are all on equal footing in this world...but this world is RL and isn't owned by a company trying to make a profit and have a certain kind of image that doesn't include recreational rape and paedophilia simulations. In such a case LL decides what's right or wrong on their property.

This was thoroughly covered in a previous thread, and overwhelming concensus was:
No, there is no way to Forcably have sex with another person on line.

That previous thread covered all the wherefors and what ifs and a Great deal of moralizing on whether it is acceptable for two consenting adults to share a Rape fantasy, but after all the running about, the answer was still No.

Rape isn't possible in SL.

Angel.

Wow, did this get added to the ToS/CS when I wasn't looking?

fwiw- not established here, but in another online world I'm not going to name:

"Virtual rape" was pretty much agreed to be possible, unlikely, and it was grounds for immediate demotion, and in some cases, loss of access to that avatar.

"Virtual Rape" was abusing world-privs to FORCE someone else's avatar to do humiliating things without that avatar owner's consent. Whether the owner was online to witness it or not.

Unlike SecondLife, that world had special permissions that would allow an 'admin' type to remote-control someone else's avatar. The purpose was to allow an admin the ability to help or test things for an avatar having problems.

The being over-powered, the victim's loss of control, the violation and the rage of the avatar's owner when these abuses occurred made the offense similar enough in nature to RL rape that it justified calling it "Virtual Rape"

You may as well name the online world, since most of us read the article in the Washington Post that another resident started a thread about recently.
Quote from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/01/AR2007060102671.html :



"Women" also weep on the WoW forums until "post-traumatic tears are streaming down their faces" because the ranger class got nerfed by Blizzard.
I'm not saying that it wasn't griefing going on there, to the same degree and annoyance level as ninja-looting someone else's kill in Everquest. But to call it rape is ridiculous, and an insult for all real rape victims who didn't sit in front of a computer, able to log off at any time, just as easy as switching the TV channel if the current show is slightly disturbing.

Ahhhhh so Tristan Debs needs to read YOUR posts becuase YOUR posts are the "Facts" and the entirity of the matter. And Becuase Tristan didnt read your Posts he "doesnt know what hes talking about before he posts." Becuase YOU "addressed it in multiple threads"

I see now.

Imagine how much you must save on air fresheners becuase your excrement apherently dont stink.




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I dont know who appointed you as arbiter on what is "Fact" around here, nor who doesnt know what they are talking about becuase they might not agree with you.

Interesting that you claim a Consensus of forums posters is meaningless but the opinion of ONE forums poster (YOU) is "fact"

According to LL, this world is owned by its residents.

Absolutely yes. Your just not bleeding and sore when its over. As has been pointed out, the falsely labled ' hug' ball that spins you around into a reasonable rendition of ' doggy style' is tantamount to rape. Now even if this was simply meant as a crude joke, what if this stunt was pulled off on a RL rape survivor? There are people out there who are still emotionally damaged after undergoing such ordeals in their own reality. Even a cartoon representation of sex, against their will, can bring back horrific memories of these dreadful events. So, yes you can always hop off a poseball and log out, but by then the damage is already done.

No. No, it is not, and for anyone to think it does demeans what real rape victims have gone through. It's like saying LL is full of Nazis and we are all concentration camp victims at their mercy. It's not even close on any level.