lindens latest blog: dob a neighbour

People form opinions about sex for all types of reasons. Religion would be one example

Congratulations! U win teH forumZ!



It's completely irrelevant actually, about as relevant as someone's race, skin colour or sexual preference in this case. Linden Lab haven't explained *why* they've made the change, only that they *have*. Neither do they have to tell us, actually.



My voice is as relevant (or irrelevant, by your thinking) as yours is, we're all sharing our opinions using the medium that is provided for us to do so. My reasons for objecting to SL being treated as a place to get free and easy sex are as relevant - or irrelevant - as yours are for thinking that it is.

Why do people have sex in Second Life? Because sex in their real life isn't very good, is non-existant, or they aren't able to engage in whatever kinks and fetishes they feel they want to in real life (with or without their current partner) for whatever reasons. Surely instead of running off into some fantasty world to pixel hump strangers whilst typing one handed, shouldn't more focus be given to fixing 'real life' first?

I've had a few 'unwanted sexual advances' from strangers, and thankfully *I* am mature enough to treat them with the contempt they deserve... but how many thousands of newbies have been greeted by someone waving prim genitalia in their face and decided that "if this is second life, I'm going back to the first" never to log in again?

Broccoli

i dunno how many newbies have fled, bleeding from their virgin eyes when they sl has *gasp* sex . . but i know for a fact that many new residents have fled from the game after seeing grief in welcome areas. After seeing people push their beliefs and thoughts on other residents uninvited and in a aggressive manner. No distinction between that type of grief and what youre proposing. Thats my opinion. Because while i allow for your type of play you may or may not allow for mine. And thats not acceptable to me

I don't allow or disallow for any type to play. I don't want to talk about beliefs or religion, or force it down anyone's throat in any welcome area. Honestly I don't care what people believe, and anyone should be able to get on SL, irregardless of what religion or lack of therein that they hold. Hence why I don't think it should be in the conversation.

Read what you're saying there very, very carefully.

You are *not* allowing me "my type of play" because you do not feel there should be any restrictions on adult behaviour in SL, and I do - and if you were allowing me, you wouldn't be attacking me for saying so.

Every time you attack someone for somehow infringing on your "rights" to express yourself ... you're doing it to them.

Broccoli

That's a potentially interesting question. Some would say th.....



Ah! It wasn't a real question then.
You already had the only possible answer.





/me has an image of flying over, or Google Earthing, RL neighbourhoods - and seeing great big banners - "PLEASE FIX RL".


*Smooooooooccchhhhh!*

Broccolli,

I thought there were restrictions on adult play in SL without a blanket ban.

Adult play is not allowed in PG areas, allowing those who want to buy adult play free mainland the opportunity to do so.

Owners of private islands can say what they do or don't allow.

As long as areas are properly labelled/tagged you can do what you want in your areas, we can do what we want in my areas, and we compromise on some common behaviour in the public areas where we meet.

How strongly peoples views are being displayed in this thread simply exacerbates my fear that the moral police will seize upon this opportunity within SL... it is so easy to take something out of context, to take the moral high ground without wearing the shoe on the other foot and so easy, now thanks to LL, to exert your will on others and punish them for being "different"...

*sigh*

It's the end of the world as we know it...

Just becuase one is a furry does NOT automaticaly mean he is involved in questionable sex acts.

Furries does NOT = beastiality.
I have YET too se ANY furry av angaged in beastiality.
beasiality MEANS sexual intercoars between a human and an animal.
SEx between two furry av's does NOT = beastiality.

Furries DOES = What is a "furry"?
A furry is an anthropomorphic animal character. Some examples of anthropomorphic characters would be cartoon animals featured in animation, such as Bugs Bunny, Scooby Doo, or Donald Duck. Some may also appear as mascots or advertising characters, like McGruff the Crime Dog or the Exxon Tiger. On the other end of the spectrum, furries can be talking animals featured in fairy tales, such as Aesop's Fables or literature, such as Watership Down. Also, actual furry fans themselves are also sometimes referred to as furries.

What is "furry fandom"?
Furry fandom is defined as the appreciation, promotion, and production of stories and art about anthropomorphic animals, as well as the exploration, interpretation and examination of humanity and human values through anthropomorphic expression. This includes works such as animated cartoons, comic books and strips, text stories and articles, artwork, costumes, and stuffed animals.



NOn human avatars is ROLE PLAY, PRETEND, MAKE BELIEVE. that is what SL is about isn't it?

I'm a furry But I have NO intrest in sex, Or Beastiality, or Kinks or BDSM. it's not my thing, Should I be banned too just becuase my av is a furry?
Please stop generalizing.

no i dont agree with that Broccoli Not even one little bit. I know thats where you are coming from but i think its not sound logic at all. when i say play i mean anything you do in world that does not interfere with another residents playstyle. This may be hard for you to grasp but many people live their entire second lives without repetitively subjecting fellow residents to content that interrupts their playstyle. Even if that requires retaining play to your own private land which you pay tier on. In a public space, i dont have a problem with anything you think or project as long as you are not interrupting me. i allow for your type of play. If youre unsure what is an annoyance air on the side of caution and dont subject me to it at all. But i really do not care what you do on your own property. im not curious enough to creep around, pan my camera and spy on you. And in that case, its irrelevant how annoying you are because i cant see it, its none of my business and i dont go looking for trouble uninvited. On the other hand .. your position is i dont like what you think or project in this world whether i can see it or not. Whether im invited or not. Whether its a private residence or not. You want to control the thoughts, art, sexuality of every resident in sl. And guess what? not only is that an impossible goal but its immoral, agressive and highly offensive to me that you would even try. You trying to control the adult thoughts of other residents does not fall into the category of your playstyle. Because, as i already pointed out above, i only allow for your playstyle if it does not interrupt mine. Therefore your insistance to force your opinions about what are acceptable playstyles is in itself not a form of playstyle and therefore i not condradicting myself at all.

Like in the other thread, I'm pretty sure no one has said "If I see a furry, I'll AR them."

I'm sure some people have thought it though But I don't think being a furry would be an ARable offense. Being a naked furry running around with prim-parts is, but so is being a human and running around in the same fashion, so I don't think you have anything to worry about.

EDIT; Okay, I've seen one person specifically rail on furries.

Our new moral compass, Daniel Linden makes it clear in an email interview with Hamlet Au (previously Hamlet Linden) on New World Notes that this is not a change in policy, just stating what the TOS has always said

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2007/06/broadly_ambival.html

*cough*

Looking for an unbiased new source - http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/

Sorry Folks but I have to agree with Zap. I do understand the concern with the vigilanty thing but after all, we should all be smart enough to know that SL is a business and Businesses are out to make money. I seriously doubt that SL will bend over backwards for the Warriors of Innocense unless they have Mega Bucks. I tend to believe its the Corps, if anyone, is behind the clean up. Everyone is saying what a bungle SL made by posting the Blog, I believe it was an excellent PR tactic, to dowse a little water on the fire that was started by the struggling Journalists that wanted the "Story of the Year" Award.
As far as what is REALLY going on here, I realize alot of you are trying to protect your rights, and that is fine. But evidently the majority of you have not had Naked Men with attached penises drop on your head from the sky, landing on YOUR land while you are talking socially with Girlfriend and friends. Then asking him to leave he stands there and tells you "I am sorry, I am new, I had no idea" and not leaving nor dressing. Then finally you eject him and he sends his nude wife in to shout obscenities at you.You eject her and they both stand outside the land boundry and keeps trying to get in. And this is totally LAME compared to what REALLY goes on around here. These are the types of ppl that do not, will not, and never will respect YOUR rights as an SL resident. No matter what your into.
Do I sound like a Vigilante? Probably...but its one thing when ppl have their own private area to do whatever they want, and another when they bring their own ideaologies to you on land that you are paying for.
I agree with Zap, Enough IS Enough....

Quick reality check here... my last name is not "Linden", therefore I don't have any ability to control anyone else's behaviour or implement any policy or policy change that might do so. The most I can do is report anything I think breaks the rules - as any of us can and should - and allow the powers that be to make that decision.

I'm just sharing my opinion, as you are, and Linden Lab will do whatever they want regardless of what either of us say.

If those engaging in 'adult' behaviour kept it out of the way in their own private or well marked areas, then maybe none of this discussion would have needed to happen in the first place.

Broccoli

Exactly!
When I joined SL, there appeared to be a very simple and reasonable set of guidelines for community standards.
http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

They were simply summarised as:
"The goals of the Community Standards are simple: treat each other with respect and without harassment, adhere to local standards as indicated by simulator ratings, and refrain from any hate activity which slurs a real-world individual or real-world community."

It then went on to outline a very reasonable set of Behavioral Guidelines - The "Big Six".
We had to go down as far as Number 5 to get to what now appears to be "The Big One":
"Indecency
Second Life is an adult community, but Mature material is not necessarily appropriate in all areas (see Global Standards below). Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M). Names of Residents, objects, places and groups are broadly viewable in Second Life directories and on the Second Life website, and must adhere to PG guidelines."

So simple!
If one does not want to risk exposure to seeing sex and/or violence, then keep to PG rated areas.
Sex and/or violence in a PG area is a breach, although one must assume that if it is only detectable by camming into a private area, then the reporter would be guilty of a breach at least as serious as the one they are reporting.
Sex and/or violence in Mature areas is (or is broadly) OK as long as it not intended to show disrespect.


KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid!

But then:

The suggestion of introducing an Adult rating within the existing Mature is on the face of it incredibly stupid, but perhaps it's just LL admitting that they never policed the ratings. People bought any First land that they were lucky to enough to get, regardless of ratings.
The new Adult-within-Mature rating would be intended allow 'PG-people' to remain in Mature areas without necessarily being perceived as buying in to Mature/Adult content. 'Mature-people' in PG areas would just have to sell up or go PG.
That embodied a uneven treatment of residents. Perhaps that should have been a warning that Mature-people are considered inferior by LL.

And then:

daniellinden happened to the Blog.
And LL have yet to clarify anything.


KISS for gawdsakes!!

Quick reality check here...

They always had to keep it to Mature-rated areas.
If LL had policed that simple rule properly in the first place then "none of this discussion would have needed to happen in the first place."
If LL began to police that properly, starting right now (as they claim to monitor AR 24/7), then all of this discussion, Adult-rating and daniellinden's extraordinary outpourings do not need to happen.

What about people who have internet radio on their land that plays music with offensive lyrics. I used to have 'the Edge' on my land and occasionally it would come up with music with very nasty lyrics ( I don't just mean the odd F-word, which I can take that sort of thing like water off a duck's back) but stuff about death, kiling and hatred.

Is streaming music an issue here - especially as the land / club owner has no idea what tune might be coming up next?

I totally agree that this is all rather too late in the day. If it had been enforced from day one, the world would be very different than it is now, and not only would the blog post not have been needed, but neither would the outcry from residents have happened.

Broccoli

The blog post wasn't needed full stop. We're adults here, we know right from wrong, we know child porn is illegal.

Linden Lab obviously thought so.


Actually you'd be surprised how many aren't, since they removed age verification.


You'd be surprised how many don't.


You'd be surprised how many people stand up for it as a 'freedom of expression' in avatar form.

Broccoli

To such an extent that they've tried to bury it with a lot of updates since then.




Yup you're right on the avatar form, the blog was talking about RL photos but I've debated the avatar form before and as far as I'm concerned it's a paedophile fantasy being played out but like I said, I don't need a blog to tell me about that.

I'm more concerned about Robin Linden's Police force to be honest.

It depends how it works out. It could actually be a good thing, as long as it's controlled and organised properly and not just a fast track abuse report thing with overreaching powers and not the need to check things out properly for context.

For example, you could abuse report a landowner for a couple having sex in the front garden of their house, even though the landowner isn't there - it's not the landowners fault that someone is behaving inappropriately on their land.

We just have to trust Linden Lab... after all, what other options do we have?

Broccoli

I would suggest a reasonable approach would be
1) All sounds should be restricted to a parcel as a matter of courtesy to others.
2) Anyone moving around in an open area of a PG sim should reasonably expect that they would not be exposed to 'Mature' content.
A pedant would say that the expectation should apply to every sq.m. of a PG sim, and right up into 'space'. A more reasonable view would be the expectation of non-Mature should end once the observer has to behave in an intrusive manner in order to gain exposure to the offending content.

I would say that a club owner in a PG sim would have to take responsibility for their content. If they can't trust their stream to remain what would broadly accepted as PG, then change it.


The problem for residents seems to be that we don't have a proper level of trust in LL to arbitrate on grey areas (or maybe even black and white areas?).
That trust has to be earned, mainly by transparency in the process.

Giving singleminded prejudiced people the power to wield the sword is just as dangerous as allowing complete freedom of expression...

There needs to be balance, as with all things in life, and there needs to be empathy and understanding of opposing points of view.

So long as I get to decide what restrictions you have, this works for me.

Deal?