Landbots - What can be done?

Yes?

I'm having trouble finding the part where I said "land bots let regular people take power back from the land barons". All I said was this is a power struggle between the barons, who once had it, and the botters, who have it now.

marcus

You really like the word lie.

But as I said before, that was a mistake since I was unaware you could code and therefor couldn't lie about it.

marcus

To whom do you refer when you say they should read threads? If its me, and I'm pretty sure it is, you would notice that I was involved in that thread to so I have read it. Maybe taking ones own advice is in order.

marcus

More lies.

This not a battle between bots and land barons.

This is about 40+ residents who worked for a living being kicked aside, to channel all the land deals and the profitability to an exclusive set coders who use tools created outside of SL to gain an unfair advantage. It's also about bots hammering the database to death and most of all, equal access to all aspects of SL.

I hang on Robin Linden's word, that this is "unfair" and no amount of lies from you will change that or convince me otherwise.

Oh, okay.. so you aren't claiming moral superiority for either side?

What ever weedy, talking to you is like talking to a 4 year old on a sugar rush. Pointless and repetitive.

The facts of the matter are this, the bots are here and no amount of whining by you or the other "dispossessed" barons will fix it.

marcus

No, I'm saying they (and I include myself in the botters side) are as bad as each other.

marcus

While I don't support landbotting, I should mention that "equal access to all aspects of SL" has never been guaranteed at any but the trivial level.

Ahh so basically you instead have told Weedy to prove something she already attempted to prove, and then saying she wont be able to. Thats not fair at all.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, by the way, that you didnt tell someone to give what they consider proof knowing full well they recently had already attempted to do so.

So.. your argument is that you're doing a "bad" thing which hurts some people and makes you money, but you feel it's OK to carry on doing it, because even if you stopped other people still would do it, so you stopping wouldn't stop people getting hurt, it would just stop you making money?

That's unfortunately an all too familiar argument from various businesses in SL

Yep you got it in one. I ask weedy to prove something she is claiming as FACT that she has only ATTEMPTED to prove but so far failed at.

marcus

Nice that you assume my answer before I can give one.

marcus

Well, I did ask it as a question. *shrug* You described your own "team" (landbotters) and land barons as "as bad as each other". Typically people who do things that they themselves think are bad have some justification for continuing to do so and the one I suggested was the most common. What is your reasoning behind doing it?

thus the part in my post about you not agreeing.

In my opinion-

If someone makes their best efforts to prove something - Its okay to say "well I dont agree" or even "You havent proven your point" Or even "your wrong"

However, its rude to tell someone who presents facts as best they can to then in a confrontational accusting manner tell them to
Since you are not only being dismissive of their point of veiw but you are also being dismissive of them even attempting to present it.

Its a few more things than rude as well, but it might take a scholar to understand those.

Ok sure I see your point, now if you read every single post of mine and weedy's you'll see that more than once weedy has presented "facts" without any proof, to which i have asked multiple times if she can support he claims. He response, nothing.

So when you came in on that last post I can understand why you would think its unfair, but then its also out of context.

marcus

Ok, I used the term bad in reference to most people opinions to botters and barons. But I can see how that can be misinterpreted.

I am yet to see any evidence that any one as lost their "jobs", as weedy would put it, because of landbots.

Competition drives innovation.

marcus

No, its in context. Since you and Weedy both have debated this before than you know Weedy's arguments. Restating facts already referenced should not require a brand new thesis, even facts you and she dont agree on.

Its also true not all the facts about land bots are availble to us as users.

For example -

How much more resources does a typical land bot user consume on a per account and per household basis than a typical user? - Does Linden Labs even know this?

How many bots on average do the land bot owners use?

How much smaller is the number of land bot owners than the land barons they replaced in this part of the market?

How much is the proffit taken by the bots comapred to that of the land barons they replaced.

How much smaller is the "bargain slip through" land deals than before the Bots?

Some of these facts might be imposible to prove. But Many can agree on the general trend in some of those statements.

Landbots - What can be done?

Nothing The bot-runners have already won. LL won't do anything and any resident action is AR-able by the bot-runners. It's game over for the rest of us who are here to do things other than being mindless consumers. The logical outcome will be:

1) The mainland broken up into 16m2 ad plots from end to end interspersed with the occasional mall or casino.

2) Total resident flight into island rentals.

3) SL limps along as a gang-run clipjoint until a better-managed 3D metaverse MMO-type thingummy comes along.

Might as well start making the funeral arrangements. SL's got a terminal condition and there ain't no 'getting better' on the horizon

More lies.

On what authority do you qualify this statement?

Truth is, you can't.

I see you have decomposed into personal attacks among the falsehoods.

Pretty much what I would have expected. No suprise there. I'm just thankful you are here hanging yourself with lies and attacks for all to see.

Hehe no matter how cynical I get theres always someone more cynical out there =)

Stop making sense, it confuses the bots JK

No seriously, these are very valid questions, which merit a response from LL very soon, otherwise this issue is not going away on it's own.

They, at the very least, owe us an explaination on these points.

It's nice to see voices of reason in this fray. Thank you Colette.

Problem is, though, the more people who DO what I did, the higher the prices rise all around.

As for your last paragraph - I never considered there to be any shame whatsoever in land dealers who buy land below market value and resell at market value (lowest end or not).

No problem with that - everyone could do that who wanted to. As you have pointed out, we could all get right in there and look for low-priced land, too. (And everyone, of course, everyone does hope to sell their land for more than they paid for it.)

Now NOBODY can look for low-priced land. Well, they can look for it, but they will never find any, because we now have bots which find all of it in an instant.

There is none left for regular land dealers or for regular people.

This notion some people have of, "Well, no problem, if everyone just gets a bot" - well, true, but I also have no intention of making the land bot sellers richer, either, and we shouldn't have to do that, anyway, to access something that was set up by Linden Lab one way in the first place.

"You are going to play our game, now," say the bot runners, who are, in fact, playing a different game - literally, a different version - from the one the rest of us are playing. "Play it or get out - your choice," is their message.

If others are like me, the response will be - you can have it.

That's not good for SL. Nobody likes a tricked and dirty version of what they are trying to participate in, and tend to leave and lose interest, rather than responding by paying the the bot makers even more.

coco

I don't think anyone who is following this issue - general user or not - has any misunderstanding that land bot runners are buying up ALL the land.

And I don't think anyone here has said anything that could possibly mislead anyone on that, deliberately or otherwise.


I don't think the "average" users care that land dealers are getting a raw deal.

Average users - like me - care that WE are getting a raw deal.

coco

The other problem with that notion is that unless everyone were using the exact same bot on the exact same computer setup with the exact same connection type to the Internet at the same distance from LL's computers etc. etc. etc., one bot is always going to be faster than the rest and get the lion's share of the deals. There will never be anything remotely like a level playing field with bots around.

We're seeing that now. From my own observations, Landbot Hax gets around 70% of the bot grabs, Elanthius's bots around 20%, and Zor's around 10%. I think Zor's results are skewed because his bot is online far less often than the rest so it's impossible to tell how well it would fare overall in a head to head competition. But there is a clear domination of the market by Landbot Hax among landbots.

There you have it - in a nutshell.

coco