Landbots - What can be done?

The problem with makeing bots illegal is all the false bot claims that come in, I was called a bot a number of times, before i made a bot.

Anyone with a fast connection would suddenly be a bot.
I have a 8mb connection to the net, apparently that makes me a bot, by several peoples comments, before and after I actually ran bots.

If you don't like the code ninja then don't sell your land below current market value. Seriously, that will stop it.

If no one sold their land below market price or made boo boos transferring land, then this whole issue would be pointless. there would be no below market land for anyone, botmaster or the outdated land swooper. But that will never happen because people do sometimes need to make a quick sale and unload property. And no matter how many steps and warnings are added to the selling or transfering of land, someone is always going to make a mistake.

I have been thinking about the issue of banning bots for a while, and basically don't see it as a tenable solution. Sure in the first waive of bannings a large number of people will stop botting, but they will be replaced by people who are less receptive than the current botters. Those people would not return accidentally bought land, why should they, they run the risk of getting banned anyway.

If you need a example of why this is doomed to fail, look at WoW and WoWGlider, Blizard has to sue the creator in a vain attempt to get him to stop. Wasted money, wasted time, wasted effort.

As for catpcha, forget it. It wont work, since there are already highly refined methods for cracking them. All it will do is increase the end users frustration because they keep getting it wrong and someone got the land instead. Although it would be ironic to see all the people complaining about bots, then complaining about the catpcha system.

I'm curious if any of the land barons are actually under the delusion that they are doing this for the betterment of SL or whether they know this is just about the green.

Marcus

I've found it more interesting that the most vocal of them and the ones we have been told are activly cornering and lobbying the Lindens in world are in fact well known Barons.


*Edit* One other interesting point is even though the bot masters are being so villified, no one seems to be having a problem swooping up their land when they sell it.

There is a certain level of irony there too, it's like watching a mini industrial revolution with the farmers running around trying to smash the machines in the factories.

But I would still like to know if they believe the FUD they are talking or are just using it as a tool because they know if they told the truth about bots, that being they don't have an impact on SL to any great extent and they (the barons) are only worried that they will go out of business, no one would care.

Personally if they would stop spreading the FUD and just admit this is all about money and power, everyone would be a lot better off.

Marcus

I'm not a land baron.

But it doesn't take much intelligence to see how the land bots are not good for anything but the bottom line of their users.

It is discouraging indeed to see that so many efforts have already been made, in terms of talking to Lindens, to get some solution to the problem.

I have to conclude that there will be no solution to the problem forthcoming, and the people running the bots are free to say "haha f*** you all," as one did on another forums.

coco

Downgrade to basic account and tell lindens " Another fine piece of pirate premium account "

^^

Yes that was rude what that person did Coco and I despise any smugness from anyone on the issue. My position has always been for the end user who only buys land to start up there shop or place one of the houses they bought from you or another content creator on their new plot of land. I still have yet to see that person's interest entered into the argument reasonably.

*Edit* Whether I as the end user give my support to a handful of bot operators or 50 Land barons and swoopers, in the end it is still the same for me with neither side concerned with how much I or any end user has to pay for land.

Not everone is "villifying" the bots tristan. If there is a market for resident's to dump their land, then there will be someone to provide that service. What's the difference between bots and people that advertise that they buy land at $7 -8/m? The bots have automated and are controlling that market. The market does not exist because of the bots, it was always there.

As far as errors in listing property, well I don't speed irl so I don't get photo radar tickets. Be very careful, check and double check.

I can't be bothered to read yet another 100 posts today about the evils of land bots, so I risk repeating something here that someone else has said and if I do that I apologize.

I just hope that those people who are rallied in anger realize that not all bots are [bad/unfair/evil/destructive], and that any solution they pressure Linden Labs for should not be all-encompassing. A solution should solve a specific problem, in this case the problem of *land* bots, and should not be an overly large blanket.

Example please, I know that land bots are all about money, so are the barons. But I want to know what detrimental effects bots have SL?

I have already countered the "Lag" issue in another thread, but if you any other "issues" regarding bots impact on SL, I'm all ears.

I have seen both sides spout that same response (ie "F you all", so trying to paint the botters as renegade cowboys not interested in anything but money, while the barons and their supporters are altruistic, is a fallacy.

marcus

/me applauds

I could go for that!

And none of the barons seem to have a problem with the land bots swooping up the land when thay want to get rid of the land fast, because thay have a new deal.

Actually had a few say thanks for that one.

AND im pretty sure the actual number of parcels taken and kept has dropped from accidental sales, and so has the complaints over it. Not to say that people dont complain when people it happens, but alls thay do Is have to ask, no fuse about it.

About 90% of the time i end up on descent terms with the person I return land to, and actually spend time talking to them. Im sure it scares them when it happens, and thats part of the reason why I do make the fact that I return land so public.

About 60% of the turns im asked where thay can get one.

Why not while at it only allow "the morally righteous" of SL access, and just ban everyone else.

marcus

I state again, differently this time, that land bots will cease to be a problem when land trading ceases to be a profitable business. LL couldn't give a shit right now.. it's a heavy sink for them, currently. It will all go away soon.

Before either of you get your conspiracy theory undies in too much of a bunch, I don't think any of us who are land dealers have been anything less than vocal about the fact, unlike a self-proclaimed "creator of copybot", a device designed purely to steal content, and a good friend of a bot owner and bot user, both of whom seem to forget to mention that fact every time they try to divert a landbot thread from its original purpose or troll it hard enough to get it locked.

Of course land dealers are going to be the most vocal about this issue. Do either of you know what a Political Action Committee is? It's a rl group that actively lobbies government against a specific problem or for the benefit of a specific group. I doubt any PACs are comprised of people who have no personal interest in the cause they support. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that those who have the most to lose will be the most vocal.

But whether I'm a land dealer or a hula dancer doesn't change the fact that one or two people using bots are able to control an entire aspect of the SL economy. Argue all you want ... but I challenge you to show how that's a good thing. In first life, governments are quick to break up that sort of monopoly, since monopolies are the death of any free economy. And that control issue is always going to happen with landbots. Even if everyone has a landbot, there'll always be one that's faster and it will get all the land deals. You never saw that kind of one-person domination prior to the appearance of landbots. I was damn good at land pouncing, but even at my best I only got less than a quarter of what I jumped for, and I only scanned the listings actively off and on for less than half the time I was online. I spend most of my SL time building, dealing with my other SL businesses (rentals and sales), exploring and socializing with friends, and working for various SL groups that benefit all, like the Arbor Project and Social Action of Second Life. That's a far cry from the sort of market domination you see from a bot that's online 24/7/52, scanning the listings that entire time, and getting 99% of the deals it jumps for.

Oh, and tristan -- obviously you haven't seen my very vocal and very visible campaign to boycott land sales by known bot users. I think you'll find that most land dealers abide by that.

Oddly enough, My land sales have gone fast lately. Normally sold within 30 seconds after its put on the market.

Thats really paying attention to those slandering messages you post.
Seems like a large minority of people want descent land at a good price over whose selling it.

Not to mention those messages dont have a drop of truth in them

Good for you. But what does that have to do with the fact that I was responding to tristan's accusation that land dealers are buying the land your bots steal despite all our upset over it?

Seems your abiding land dealers delay my sale 30 seconds. Seems like a hole lot of abiding dosent it?

Iv been AR your slander thats involved in them.
thats 10 AR's today

*seconds*

Do away with landbots and the only one who wins are land traders, do away with land flipping altogether and the whole of the community benefits.

Again, I don't see how the fact that you manage to sell your land despite the fact that land dealers aren't buying it has to do with the fact that I was responding to tristan's accusation that land dealers are buying bot land.

Of course you're going to sell your land anyway. There are thousands of residents out there and the active land dealers are only a small percentage of that. But I'll say it again so even your reading disability can understand it: tristan said "One other interesting point is even though the bot masters are being so villified, no one seems to be having a problem swooping up their land when they sell it." I replied that we do have a problem with it, and the land dealers at any rate are boycotting it.

Sheesh ... head ... brick wall ... that's what trying to communicate with you is like.

I never claimed I wrote it I said I sold it. And it was never designed to steal content, although it could be used for that, it was designed as a development tool. But don't let facts get in the way of a good smear campaign. We all know you don't think to high of them.



I challenge you to prove it's true. You claim all these horrible things are because of bots and not once have you shown any proof of your claims. It's just more FUD.

Yet again Herzog you have proven that you use the same tired tactics to make your point, FUD, lies, character assassination, claims of "you might be a baron but your looking out for the little guy" altruism.

For once I would like to see some thing other then hypocritical self righteous diatribes from you.

marcus

Actually, I believe about every land sale has been to a land dealer.
Thats all im pointing out, seems like half of SL are land dealers though.

You might of gotten 10 land dealers to not buy my land but you have seemed to miss the rest of the 5,000 or so.

Sorry rev I saw it with my own eyes. For every land dealer that boycotts there are 5 others ready to take their place. Posting lies about people in the mainland search listings doesn't change anything. I encourage anyone who is interested to search through the archives of this forum and see that this is just a rehashed argument with bots added. See there was once a time where people were actually getting their land stolen out from under them by land barons on occassion. Some posts were quite interesting to read. I encourage others to do so as well.