How old does my avatar need to look to have sex?

As it was clarified later, the RL age was meant, not the avatar age. Heck, Robin Linden just days ago talked with the group Second Life Children! There is no problem with child aged avatars, and LL even recommend child avatars to put their RL age in their profiles.

I personally think Age of consent should not be tied to socialization at all. Humans have not genetically changed as a Species during recorded history on a objective level. All changes have been the result of culture and technology. Culture doesnt make someone an adult, nature does.

However no one will ever get a culturally unbiased apprasal. So instead Age of consent will inch back and forth over time. Eventually as the need for teeangers to be able to have sex with adults disapears, it will go upward more.

You do have point on whats happening to kids recently. Id add that part of the current results is our over medication of our children for hyperactive based "disaorders". 10 years ago while picking my Daughter up from school the line for the kids to get their Ritialin (basically a legal "downer" was out the office door.

Okay perhaps my information on LL policy was not complete - you are saying LL said its okay to call your avatar a certain age under 18? That might be a relief of some people who hadnt heard.

I do not think this means Avatars "under 18" can have sex though even with other avatars "under 18" Im pretty sure the ban on sexual content is for all Avatars "under 18".

Point of clarification: Ritalin is actually a stimulant.

As for the rest of this, I think people are going a little overboard looking for things to worry about.

This is not about whether your avatar looks 15 or 18 and where that fits in the age of consent. This is about avatars that look like children--preadolescents without secondary sexual characteristics.

Characters that look like teenagers are not really the issue, since at least biologically, teenagers are technically 'adults'.

This is about avies that look 12 and under. I don't think anybody is going to be debating ages of consent in that range.

You're right, and I apologize. I googled a bit, and this page cleared it up. The passage in §182 StGB really means "...and in addition exploits the lack / inability of sexual self-determination of the victim", not "...thereby exploits..." as I read it. The wording is a bit ambiguous.

This is quite a surprise. I didn't know the law did change so much; although according to the lawyer's statement in the link above it's still decided on a case-by-case basis if a 14-16 year old has the needed maturity to make such a decision.

Ahh Ritalin. The friend of bad parents and lazy teachers everywhere.

Ahh - you are right. However its effects on those with high energy levels resembles that of a downer. Resulting in a "calmer" child.

Of course Alcohol, a depresant, often results in people acting less calm in medium dosages. So I suppose that makes a sort of weird sense.



Well me personally im not so sure - see, its not the rational people who will AR you most times for going about your business. Its the irrational ones.




Is it? I dont see Linden Labs being as clear on this stuff, however. I agree thats what this should be about becuase thats what is identifyable.




Adults in that they are capable of sexual reproduction and the bulk of their growing is complete , yes.
But completely mature biologically in mid teen years? Not in most cases.




For SL age of consent for avatars and players is definitely 18 - I dont see it as debateable.

But I dont see where they said its about avies 12 and under anywhere. Although you are right thats where the bulk of the uproar is from - Child like avatars having sex with Obvious adult avatars. .

Well here it is - in real i am ery small, 4'6" REALLY!!!! Im just small, look normal nut small. So in Second Life I chose to be me, small and pretty. Guess What???

I got banned lota places, accused of being a pedophile, etc etc. Im 26 asian girl, small and thats it. Lesbo Island wouldn't even let me in!!!!!

My friends grew concerned and made a beautiful avie for me. I like it, but it's NOT ME. But what can I do? The GESTAPO says if you look like a child you MUST be engaging in illicit and possibly illegal practices. Linden Nazi's basically said if you 'appeaer to be a child' and engage in sex, you will be banned.....

When I go to clubs, buy cigarettes, buy a six pack in real I get carded. So in REAL I appear to be a CHILD!! IM 26 YEARS OLD!!!

This entire issue is extremely stupid. Linden is afraid they will loose thier company due to law suits however cartoons are NOT considered child pornagraphy in the USA or anywhere else! Linden is becoming PARANOID AND SELF DESTRUCTIVE.

Now they Choose to age verify over an issue that involved a 54 year old and a 27 year old. I WILL NEVER VERIFY! WHY YOU ASK????

I recently had my IDENTITY STOLEN! It is the worst thing and I would not wish this on my worst enemy! My credit is destroyed and my account have been bled DRY. My financial losses are now into the 200k range. Why in HELL would I TRUST LINDEN WITH MY INFO WHEN MY OWN BANK LOST MY INFO??? As far as I can see banks are heavily regulated and controled, so if THEY CAN LOOSE INFO, how can Linden ever hope to keep us safe??

There are after all alternative Metaverses out there. I am looking for a NEW WORLD so I can run (not walk) away from Second Life!!

I suggest MASS REBELLION AND MASS EXODUS FROM SECOND LIFE! They steal from us and so now we have the power to put Linden Labs into Bankruptcy. Premium accounts pay for service yet get NO SERVICE! Thier product fails and they NEVER address ANY concerns TRUTHFULLY to ANY PAYING CUSTOMERS!

Just my thoughts. (or is it the thoughts of the person who stole my identity??)

Perhaps you should state all this you just wrote in your sl profile description and say in there too that your avatar is not mean to be underage and is simply meant to reflect accurately your height in rl ... if it says that on your profile then where is the problem? I dont see that you will have any, if anyone tells you that you are a child av tell them to read your profile.

Elinah

Please forgive the tangent, but some quick shots can't be allowed to stand uncorrected.

Experts who are firmly in the camp that ADHD/ADD are real disorders concede that it is overdiagnosed, with 2:1 being the number I recall (i.e. only half the kids diagnosed with ADHD/ADD actually have it).

However, I recently finished participating in one drug study involving a ritalin-based drug, and I'm now in another long term study. The results aren't published yet, but I can tell you that at least for me, as an adult, taking methylphenidate (the generic name of Ritalin) made an obvious, measurable difference in my ability to remain focused and accomplish work. This isn't just casual observation, but is based on diaries, weekly questionaires, weekly interviews with a psychiatrist specializing in the area, and periodic objective tests. Yet the stigma created by remarks like yours caused me to hold off seeking a diagnosis for about ten years, prolonging a significant drag on my career.

So while overdiagnosing and overprescribing does a disservice to those who don't need it, ridiculing those who are legitimately ADHD/ADD and who benefit from drug therapy does an equal disservice to them.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled never-ending, often silly, always pointless debate.

Her comments and mine were related to the over medication of children - so Im not sure how they apply to you personally (hopefully none except historically, this is an 18+ forum)

In my own Life ...

My daughter's teacher actually asked me to have my daughter put on Ritilan when she was 6. Not "have your daughter evaluated" but - "Go take your daughter to get a prescription for ritilan"

This is the same school that had the line out the office door before lunch time / or Pill time I guess.

I refused of course to let a teacher tell me my daughter needs a drug. She is 16 now and has a 3.99 GPA.

I have read studies that seem to agree with my personal experience. Some that suggest your 2:1 number is on the low side it might be higher than 5:1.

But your post is correct. Its not the drug thats bad. Its giving it / or too much of it - to people who dont need it. Its the teachers/phychologists/parents at fault here, not the chemical.

I don't disagree with you at all. But I do believe that the misdiagnosis ratio is higher thn 2:1, at least in my observations. But no offense meant to you or anyone who is being helped, by this or any kind of medication. I've had issues if my own that drugs have helped with.

Way over 18. The particular study was actually being done because the drug in question, while shown to be safe in adults, had not yet been tested for effectiveness on adults.


This, of course, is not just inexcusable but borders on professional incompetance, in my opinion.


Stay observant, though. I was in the top ten in my school, 800 on the math SAT, and ivy league. My ADD didn't really hold me back until grad school. (ADD causes ABD, if you know the latter acronym.) I had clear symptoms as a kid, but the non-hyperactive type, and with good grades, no one would have been looking for anything. (Though ADHD wasn't well known at all when I was in elementary school.)

Of course, given the way the teacher said it, it's likely there's nothing there to worry about in your daughter's case.

Could well be. I think the number I recall was an off-the-cuff estimate from a well-known professional, not based on any hard statistics.

They are not considered child pornography in the US, but judging from other remarks, it appears that they are considered child pornography in Germany and perhaps other countries.

However, even in the US, they can be considered illegal obscenity. Different part of the law, may or may not survive legal scrutiny, but still on the books as far as I know. The FBI article cited several times in this forum refers to such a case, and even there, I believe that there was enough RL stuff involved that it wasn't worth anyone's time to question whether the virtual stuff counted.

Usual IANAL disclaimer applies.

a whaaaaa? O.o?

I don't think you need to be so upset. Yes, you are in a difficult position at the moment if you want to look like your real life self. I would guess the number of people having similar trouble must be very small.

It's hard to make a change of any kind that will not negatively affect someone, however, you must be able to set aside your own personal annoyances and regard this action as necessary for a number of reasons, not least of which is that the societal taboos in place to protect children depend upon shock value.

I believe we need those taboos in place to protect our children, and adults must make sacrifices at times to make sure those protective taboos remain strong. The world does not revolve around any one person. The legality of any issue is not the place where our morals rest. If something is not against the law we are still free to include it or not in our fabric of society. Legality = bare minimum, to me.

Some people don't have common sense and its not the ones creating their avs. They also shouldn't be forced to look 25. Saying its not a "Magic" formula isn't a very nice thing to say to those that are worried. Some may be ARd just for being short or other reasons. Look at one of the posts on the recent pages in here. Someone already gets banned in places for being short and thats it. The only answer you give for this is to be taller. Well its her real life height and people get all bent out of shape over it. She has the right to be short. I can't believe you are saying "It's so easy to look 25 or 40. I don't think its very nice. Some people also have very different opinions of what age avs look and may AR just based on that even without asking.

You really think LL will investigate? I don't think so.

Why do people want to have sex with avatars? I find that disturbing.

So don't do it.

Ask them. One things for sure its safe sex. What's disturbing about it?

Yes...some people MAY AR you for looking short but you know what..those same people might have already AR'ed you for looking like a griefer..or for suspicion of being underaged in game. People will always AR unnecessarily... and there isnt a think anyone can do about it. You seem to paint LL as a company that just reacts without first looking into things.. do you REALLY believe that is how they are? Do you really believe that they are just going to ban short avatars...for no reason? Of course they arent, Of course they will investigate first.
As I said in my other post...yes people have a right to be short. I totally agree with you there..and LL doesnt disagree either, they have never stated that you cant have a short avatar.. but thats doesnt mean that people who suspect you of being involved in ageplay arent going to AR you...so you have an option, you can make your AV a little taller... or you can have people ..quite wrongly.. abuse report you and have to find yourself doing a lot of explaining. but remember.. be short and be proud of it!! If you are going to stand up for your "young" looking "short" avatar..that isnt 15 but could be... then do it loud and proud!

I've figured out why you fail to see a problem Alice.



Minor. Not "child of twelve or less" Minor, meaning (probably) under either 18 or 16. LL haven't even stated which jurisdiction's rules on age they use, so no-one knows for sure.


So while everyone else here is discussing the problem of ambiguous avatars you're stuck thinking about sex with six year olds.

Im not stuck thinking of sex with six year olds. Im saying...quite clearly that there is an easy method to fix the problem. So AGAIN... if your AVatar looks like it is 16..or 17...or 15, then make it look older. If there is a hazy grey area... make sure your AV is past it!

Incidently... Seems so many people seem worried about this issue, and many people are complaining (quite rudley I think) that LL have not clarified an issue. Why hasnt a single person put it on the Jira issues list? I think that would have a more positive result that sitting on a forum calling them things like Nazi's and shouting that "THEY WONT TELL US!!!!"

And that is the problem. "If your Avatar looks like 16 or 17". Who decides this and that is the question. Also the answer shouldn't be, make it look older. I'm old enough in real life, I want to be young looking.

dont worry .. with that attitude, no one will offer.