How old does my avatar need to look to have sex?

Yes but how can you tell the difference between 15 and 18?? It isn't that simple. Does height make the difference?? The only common sense I can see is if you have a pre-teen skin and short height. There is definitely a lot of gray areas I can see so there is confusion and there are many posts concerned with this confusion. So it does exist and its a fact based on all of these posts and questions about it.

I agree with you. Many are just looking for 'gray areas'.

No there isn't much difference av wise between a 14/15/16 year old to a 18/19/20, but the problem that has occured is down to avs looking around 4/5/6 being used for sexual purposes.

A teenager has an adult body and you tend to reach an adult height around 13 for girls. Teenagers or adults don't dress in toddler/junior clothes with pig tails and only around 3ft tall and have adult bodies. Child avs having sex is the bannable offence, not teens. If you are adult enough to come on the grid, you should be adult enough to be able to work out yourself what would be considered acceptable.

Ok aside from the fact that short people generally are not half the size of grown men. Nor do they wear doll dresses while engaged in intercourse inside rooms full of childrens accessories. If you freeze frame the video on the group listing You can just look at the name in the search in SL and get such quotes

"I'm a fun lil girl, looking to have a good time"

or find such wholesome groups as Preeeen *****.

So yes while avatar height vs. real height in SL is certainly skewed it is not that skewed.

OK... I really dont think its that hard is it? When you make an avatar...if you think to yourself something along the lines of "hey this avatar looks like a child and I am going to go and have sex with it" then you have made a child avatar. If you have made an adult avatar...and people keep saying to you "boy... your avatar looks like a child" and that wasnt your intention.. then you just have to make it look older.
I really think there are only grey areas if you want there to be grey areas. There is no need for all the fuss over it. I am sure that LL are trying to get rid of CHILD SEX on the grid... not intentionally trying to go out and bust people whos avatars look 17 rather than 18.

Make your own decisions..and do it honestly. If you are trying to look like a child and go and participate in "age play" then you deserve to get caught...and probably will.

Because SL is more-or-less worldwide, residents should respect BOTH the LL Terms of Service AND the laws of the RL country that they came into SL from. Americans are not allowed to gamble on-line so there has recently been all the hoo-haa about casinos in SL, but they still seem to get used by those from countries where online gambling is still legal.

Before coming to SL, I was in UK, where it is illegal to carry a gun. Should UK SL-ers be prosecuted if their avatar is found carrying a gun in-world?

Under-age sex should not be allowed in SL full-stop - I agree with LL on that one.

One could say LL ought to ban anyone who contravenes the laws of their own country in-world. But then there are probably several countries around the world where it would be illegal merely to join SL!!!

People have a right to be worried. There can be a large difference in opinion on what is a child avatar and thats a fact. Some might view some of the shorter avs as child-like while some might not. Some prefer to be short avs and want to be like their real-life height which is short. Some people like to wear cute dresses and wear pigtails, big deal. Some people have purposely made their avatar short and not they haven't said to themself this avatar looks like a child when they made it. Some people have stated that their avatars are in fact kids but still get asked the question even though they are just short and thats a fact and they are worried. They still have rights to be short too and someone saying that doesn't mean they should be worried. And for crying out loud, if we can play as kids on the SIMs then we should be able to on here anyways.

Why would people be "worried"? surely the only people who need to be worried at all should be people who participate in Age play. Remember, LL are not banning short avatars..nor child avatars Just people who are participating in ageplay or sexual situations with a child avatar. I am sure there are people who will want to "test" the system by intentionally making avatars that look like children and then say "but my avatar is really 200yo". Its silly, there need not be a fuss over this... unless you are into child sex in which case...I think you should be VERY worried... heel, I am worried for you if thats the case.

Why would people be worried? Not sure but they ARE and thats a fact. They aren't making a fuss about it they are expressing their concerns and have a right too. It's not silly, these are genuine concerns.

I know someone that is quitting second life already cause they will no longer be able to be short in SL and their alt is a kid avatar on a PG SIM. They like to play that role I guess cause they were abused when they were a kid. Not sure why but this person is quitting because of the new policy. That to me, means someone is definitely worried.

It may only be my interpretation...but I see a lot of people TRYING to make an issue out of something which should be plain and simple. I understand people not wanting to be banned... and that can make people a little anxious but there really is no need for it.
I have found every Linden I have ever talked to to be fair and understanding... if you have doubts..maybe you should try contacting a Linden? or Better still, ask some of your friends. I am sure you will be able to find people who can make a mature, rational decision about how young your avatar looks ...and whether or not you are participating in age play...although, as I have stated before, I think everybody already knows weather they are here for that or not.

I certainly do not want to stop people from voicing legitimate concerns on a board... but I am also entitled to an opinion.

Im not sure they are trying to make an issue in all cases.

The concern is that they arent into Sexual Ageplay - but some busybody, moral crusader will AR them for being a teen Av and having sex.

Considering the current perception is LL is jumpy on this issue and might ban first and ask questions later - people do have a legitimate concern.

Of course some who are in support of Ageplay for freedoms sake are agreeing with the concern as yet another reason the ban isnt right - WHICH makes people think that peopel are looking for an issue that doesnt exist.

The Issue however is -
CAN I BE AR'd becuase some person who doesnt know me sees something and decides my AV doesnt look liek an ADULT?

You think it wont happen? Thats being Naive

Just Last night -
my av is 5'5 - My avatar looks clearly adult, isnt flat chested or anything like that. A player about a month old saw me next to one of my more Amazonian friends and the first question she asked was "Are you Fran's daughter?"


Now then are we going too take away the power to AR from all people too clueless to realize women's ages arent based on their height?

No?

Well then it is a concern.

As long as Stupid people are allowed to AR - then grey areas ARE something to worry about.

I find it ironic if this is true - that Germany came so hard down on the sexual ageplay then.

If this is true - this is basically just State approved child abuse.

A 14 year old's brain isnt done developing - and obviously 14 year olds cant make mature decisions. They are not capable of making informed consent on sexual relationships with adults.

Being Abuse reported...and being banned are two VERY different things though and as I have said I have never known any of the Lindens to be that irrational as to ban without some sort of proof.
I see your concerns over height, and it is certainly a bit of a worry fresh in peoples minds right now, but there is a MASSIVE difference between a small avatar and a child avatar wouldnt you say? I have seen plenty of small adults in my time, and you can still tell that they are adults. It really seems to be AV's that are CHILDREN..that are engaging in sexual play that is the issue. Maybe LL could make an "AV Age verification plan" ...where we all give our Secondlife social security numbers.......
lol

There's more to the German law than just the age of consent. Both partners have to be in a certain age bracket. There's also the issue that it's 14 for males and 16 for females.

Well, I forgot one more restriction, I'm sorry. The legal age is 14 as long as the other part doesn't take advantage of a youth not being able making informed consent. But 14yos can be very different. Some already are capable of making such a decision - others still play with dolls and lego. So everything has to be checked in each individual case. But it is an "innocent until proven guilty" scenario. Of course the law would look closely at the relationship between a 14yo and a 24yo, but as long as there is no evidence of exploitation both are doing something legal.

Another interesting question in the whole topic: what about lets say two 16yo avatars having sex? Would be perfectly legal for them in real life. In fact that happens thousands of times all over the world each day. But in SL it would be a reason to be kicked off?

I'm sorry, but you are wrong on both counts.

I don't think so. There are laws governing coercion and exploiting a victim's lack of capacity for sexual self determintation. Some of the laws depend upon a complaint being made.

AN unclear rule that encourages people without common sense to AR short Avatars for having sex is a bad one.

People shouldnt have to ability to cuase others to be investigated without a clear reason. As it stands I can Ar some I think looks 16 having sex , and they might (and likely will in the current political climate) be investigated by LL. Since its easy to get banned, becuase you have no rights protecting your account- This is a pretty big issue.



The different isnt all that massive to someone without common sense -
Many of the sexual ageplay "child avatars" use adult skins, adult hair, may wear lingerie , etc.



Right now all avatars are required to be "over 18" but not required to look in any certain way.

Thus they can look 6 years old but they still have to be "over 18"


------------------------------------

This height problem is partly LL's fault - they made the default avatars so tall and didnt provide a way to set height people understand who are new.

When You ask women how tall they want to be they in most cases dont say "6 foot 6"
The want to be 5 foot something. But they dont know what 5 foot something is.

Those of us who have found a way to make out avs realisitic human heights shouldnt get they witchhunt police sent on us.

There is no general restriction, the age of consent is 14, a complaint is not enough, it has to be proven on individual basis that there is some kind of exploitation involved. In general a 14yo in Germany is free to do sexually what he wants. And the age of consent is the same for girls and boys. If you are able to read german, please look at the following website:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzalter

If you think the difference is massive then please explain to everyone else how to tell a 15 year old AV from an 18 year old AV.

Because sex with one will get you perma-banned from SL forever, with complete loss of all inventory and no appeal. And the other is fine.

I completely disagree - an adult having sex with a 14 year old is ALWAYS child abuse in my opinion. Always .. even if they two are married legally. And reguardless of what the laws are. There is no informed consent for people who are not done maturing. Reguardelss of how they act. These legal ages are a throwback to when Adults married their children off when they were teens for economic and social reasons.

However thats not the topic of this Thread or These Forums at all. Legal Consent in ANY country does not matter one bit. The Age minimum for sex in SL is 18. Period.




This was made clear in the Ageplay notecard and follow up Robin Linden Conversation.

No avatar is allowed to be under 18.
They may look under 18. but they are not allowed to be under 18.
So obviously two 16 year old avatars arent allowed to exist - let alone have sex.

In real life two teens having sex isnt a crime, nor should it be - but that doesnt affect Second Life.

I can't speak German but I can see that there are paragraphs there regarding 14, 16 and 18 year olds.

Maybe the information I'm reading is out of date or is a law that isn't really enforced. For example in the UK sodomy (or buggery as it was known) between males and females was technically illegal because the law was never repealed.

However I read these sites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1045383.stm

Of course you totally have the right to that opinion, and you will find enough experts to say the same. As you will find enough experts to differ. I don't see it at a throwback into old ages - in my eyes there is a difference between a 14yo in 1907 and one in 2007.



I'm sorry, I didn't make it clear enough. I meant 16yo avatars played by adults, lets say 26yos.



The big question is: why should SL, where everyone is a legal adult (at least by TOS), be more restrictive than the actual law? And why only in that area, when you still can be a murder, drug dealer, slave dealer and so on?

It is outdated. Paragraph 176 is about children *under* the age of 14. Paragraph 182 is about teens from age 14 on, and in the todays version there *has* to be proven evidence that exploitation took place.

There is no difference- it was Child Abuse then too. Yes I am aware I have just said throughout most of history Most Cultures sexually exploited teenaged women.

By Throwback I mean thats where those age numbers come from, meaning ages of consent were not decided based on a child's needs - but those of adults back when they were created. There has been a trend in recent years in many countries/states to increase consent ages.



you were clear enough - but you missed what I was saying

No avatar is allowed to be under the age of 18 - reguardless of their apearance. This was decided a couple of months ago. There was a stealth/ hush ban campaign on Sexual Ageplay carried out after the fox news story.

SO if you are not allowed to SAY your avatar is under 18 .. even if you are 92 in real life .. how can a 16 year old Avatar have sex?

Sorry, but a teenager of today is both physically and mentally more developed than one from 100 years ago.




Here you are wrong. Both months ago *and* today LLs stand is, that child aged avatars *are* allowed. Not allowed is sexual ageplay for child aged avatars. From a notecard of the Second Life Children group (sorry for the capitals, i didn't make it like that):

***
FELLOW MEMBERS OF THE SLC. AS YOU KNOW THE LATEST BLOG ENTRY BY THE LINDEN STATE HAS SPARKED HYSTERIA IN SL ABOUT CHILD AVATARS AND AGEPLAY AGAIN.

WE SPOKE TO ROBIN LINDEN AND SOME OTHER LINDENS TO TRY AND GAIN SOME SOLID FACTS ON THEIR NEW POLICY CHANGES

ACCORDING TO THE LINDENS THEMSELVES IF EVIDENCE IS RECORDED VIA CHATLOG OR SNAPSHOT OF YOU ENGAGING IN SEXUAL AGEPLAY IN PUPLIC OR EVEN PRIVATE PLACES YOU CAN BE UP FOR ACCOUNT DELETION.

IF YOU ARE NOT ENGAGING IN SEXUAL AGEPLAY, THEN YOU ARE NOT BREAKING ANY OF OF THE NEW RULES AND SO HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.
***

Child aged avatars were never forbidden, and according to LL there are no plans to forbid them now.