Yes Or No Voice Activated On Property

Hi Sue

As someone who occasionally attends events at Sue's club, I am happy to read this. I am not anti-voice. But one of my major concerns about voice is that I frequent a lot of dance clubs and live SL music events (I'm at one right now, a Reggae singer as I play hookie from work) and I don't want to hear the voice chatter drown out the music.

Hope to see you at another one of your events soon Sue. I've just kind of turned into this live SL music groupie.

Whenever people don't agree with you, you always say, "you misunderstood my point"

I think you missed MY points. Reread my post above, and take it for what it is, not as a flame against anyone.

Is that also why although voice is now available grid-wide to the masses, you can rarely find a sim, or significantly large contingent of residents using voice?

I've look long and hard and have found very few people using voice. What does this tell you?

Isnt it ironic that even after this feature was force fed on us, and all of you pro-voicers rejoiced over its implementation, you are now having a difficult time finding a steady or continuous stream of people to talk to?

Which would explain why you are still on these forums complaining, and attempting to coerce people to enable voice on their land.

How frustrating must that be for you?

You misunderstood my posts - becuase first off you refered to them as flaming, which they werent.

Secondly my point of bringing up the lack of a Wide Community demand for voice had nothing to do with me saying LL shouldnt add it or not.

So your response explaining why they should add it as opposed to my "flame" obviously must have been missing some of what I was saying.

I have made no statements with reguards to the rest of your content of your post - Me not commenting on those , does not constitute me not understanding them.

If I had made statements CONTRARY to your statements and at the same time misjudged what you had said, then perhaps I misunderstood. However thats not the case.

Your definition of flaming is a bit namby pamby anyhow. The only person Ive ever really flamed on any forums is Squeezeone.

Once again, the ignore option is your friend.

Be clear about this. Your use of "gamers" refers to those involved in the FPS (First Person Shooter) genre...which pits players against others in combative, and sometimes cooperative play. Don't mistake SL as being limited to that kind of environment. And when you say the "majority of gamers", it's my belief you're only referring to those involved in an FPS. If I want to play HALO...I play HALO...I don't play SL.

There are times and places in which VOIP - enabled communication with others can be a benefit. That was one of the reasons practically everyone who wanted to do that used either Skype or Teamspeak. Conversely, there are many of us, myself included, who think that forcing a voice-enabled client grid-wide is stuffing a feature down our throats that has the potential of changing the environment in which we work and play here.



Ummm...yeah, we did kinda need to be asked. Something that makes such a fundamental change to the environment of the game, really should have taken place only after some feedback from those who play it. Especially with a world that claims to be looking for some sort of "democratic" community-building.



Because SL is not a game. It's the prototype for a 3D web browser. Period.
Your insistence in pigeonholing SL into some easy to quantify category is what's hard to understand.

I have it enabled on my land, though I don't use it myself. I figure just because it's not something I have an interest in that's no reason to limit people who do want to use it.

It's not force fed on you. Was the game Halflife 2 force fed to you? No, it's a product. Products aren't force fed.

In my previous post, notice how I said the "gaming community" was begging for VOIP. SL is inherently close to a "game" and houses a lot of gamers...so naturally LL thought it wise to add the OPTION of voice.

It's a necessary step in virtual worlds...one that is optional, and one that we must learn to embrace.

No archer...not just FPS...I said GUILDS and CLANS...this isn't just FPS. I thought that was obvious. FPS don't have guilds--RPGs do.

You don't get my post man...you just don't get it. I can't even reply to you.

Man oh man...you guys love TRYING to tear apart my comments. I swear, even if you DID agree with me, you feel the necessity to flame me.

Just an observation Michael - why is it that when viewpoints vehemently agree with yours you herald the speakers as honest and direct but when someone disagrees with your viewpoint with the same passion they are "flaming"? I know - now I'm flaming too



I too have been gaming for several decades. As a matter of fact I was doing it back when data was still being loaded from cassette tape on computers with 4K of RAM. I have seen a lot of gaming environments in that time and I still have yet to see where you can make any statement of what "the majority of gamers" want to do. There are certainly environments that are made for voice, such as combat/flight sims and first person shooters but for every one of those there is another that needs voice like a hole in the head. my point here is that you cannot simply claim that this particular user base wants to do anything just because "everybody's doing it". To make decisions that way shows an appalling disregard for the customer and the uniqueness of the community's dynamics. Everybody is *not* doing it, and not everyone *wants* to do it.



Technically Michael, "we" do not need to be asked if we support modification of the U.S. Constitution to limit freedom of speech either. Will you feel as casual about not being consulted if that happens? Keep in mind I am not making a direct comparison between the two - just speculating about the true meaning of "community acceptance is optional".



Would you like a list of really cool things that were not only dreamed up and implemented without an indicated desire from the masses, but implemented under fierce disapproval from same?

Sorry Michael it is NOT a necessary step and it does NOT have to be embraced. However to your arguments credit, so far from what I have seen (granted it's only been 3-4 days) life on the grid has NOT collapsed. As long as the voicers respect the wish of the non-voicers, then I think we can get along.

If you guys can seriously look me straight in the face and repeat this:

"Adding voice to SL is a complete disregard to the community, and its wants."

...If you truly believe this then you need to do a LOT more research into VIOP, gaming, technology, popular trends, and virtual worlds.

After you do that research, come back and make that blanket statement again. Maybe after you research and explore a little more, you'll see that VIOP is a positive thing...one that has been implemented because of the want for it...the want is why it's hear...it's hear because we wanted it...(I say WE not in the SL communal sense...but WE in the worldly digital sense)

"Necessary" and "optional" are mutually exclusive.

Oh, I see. You're talking games like WoW and the like? Because there are guilds and clans built around tons of FPS games, Michael. From HALO to the latest Tom Clancy shooter. But, Michael you said "gamers"...just WHICH "gamers" did you mean? Maybe you should be a bit more specific when you refer to things like that.



Perhaps if you didn't issue sweeping statements that allude to the majority of the world's population supports you and your sentiments...I might "get" your posts. But you continue to try and lump SL together with some other "game" you've been playing. It's not.



Personally, I just think it's because you're wrong. *shrugs*

In 1995 a friend had just gotten his internet connection and the very first thing he showed off was a proggie that let you talk to people on the other side of the world over the internet.

I wouldn't call anything that's been around for over 12 years "relatively new".

I'll look you straight in the eye and tell you this:

"The way LL implemented voice seemingly disregarded many in the community, without asking for their input about such a major feature addition to the client."

THAT'S what the majority of people have been upset about, I believe. But...I could be wrong.



Some of us are watching this issue very closely as part of our research. I don't think VOIP is a bad thing, at all. I don't think I've seen a single post in the forums that alludes to it being a negative. What's being said is that its inclusion as a part of the SL client - and being dropped into the grid - is a dodgy thing, at best. SL had VOIP...it was called Skype and Teamspeak...and if people wanted it...they used it. It wasn't an inherent part of the game.

See here's where the problem lies in discussing this with you:

People say "Adding voice to SL without consultation of the SL community shows disregard".

You edit out what you don't want to hear, namely "without consultation", and repost the sentence as an example of the "blanket statements" of others. And this after making me sorry that I don't have a dollar for every time you've told us what "We", "the Majority", and "everyone" thinks and wants.

You tell Colette that she claims people misunderstand her statements every time someone refutes her but then make the same claim when Archer refutes you and claim you can't even talk to him about this, entirely because he disagrees with you.

BTW - there's a ton of the "worldly digital" arena that could care less about SL at all. How does the actual SL userbase warrant less consideration than "Joe Digital the Non-SL Gamer"?

Skype, Google talk, msn, Yim, all have voice facilities, all are easily available.

They do misunderstand me though -

I dont see how they think -

"LL shouldnt say the community asked for this when they dont make an effort to talk to community. But of course they can add whatever features they want"

Translates to:

"They shouldnt add this becuase it disreguards the community's wishes."


I consider that being misunderstood.

Phones have been around even longer than that. Telegraphs even longer, AND they are faster than text messaging:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/06/morse-code-trumps-sms-in-head-to-head-speed-texting-combat/2

Not much new under the sun, really.

Can't we all just get along?

But isn't it ironic that all the new phones have text messaging as an option? And more people use that then actually talking to people? What does that say? Hmm.. Just food for thought

No sweetie I agree with you - that's the point I was making with that and other statements I made. It's similar to how any, and I mean ANY objection or reservation about voice equals voice should be banned any and everywhere from now until eternity.

Anything other than tongue-wagging unquestioning approval of voice means you are trying to burn voice users at the stake. This to me smacks of a basic inability to accept that the feature has its own built in set of disadvantages as well as a fear of less than universal acceptance, as if the speakers are attempting to convince themselves that voice is as appealing to everyone as they need it to be, and blowing off all evidence to the contrary.

The way I look at it, people are reporting here in this thread that they are doing exactly what they were told would be the only thing necessary to prevent problems with voice. The difficulty is coming in because the numbers of people saying they're shutting off voice in these forums are apparently scaling quite proportionally in-world and voicers are feeling discriminated against because nobody wants to talk. Someone made this observation earlier - the percentages are not going to reverse themselves in-world no matter how badly voicers need them to.

Now is that bad or good? I dunno. What I do know is that there was no "majority" of anything begging for voice in SL. And since the SL community is the only one that counts in the question of SL voice...

Wow yes! Great observation!

I actually can't stand it when people text me rather than talking when they are communicating by phone. I purchased my phone with the intention of talking. I did not buy a phone looking for a typewriter or IM unit.

I have several friends that refuse to call and talk on the phone, preferring to text me over and over again to my dismay. Even after I have told them repeatedly that I do not want to receive 30 text alerts for a three sentence conversation, they persist. So I ignore all text messaging, and as a result, have not had conversations with some people in some time.

Point is, I expect to *talk* on the phone. I don't want phone text shoved down my throat just because everybody's doing it. If I wanted to read conversations I would use e-mail. Similarly, if I wanted to voice chat I would pick up the phone.

Okay, just for fun, let's compare:Which seems more concilliatory, which more confrontational?

But this might actually relate to voice. Everybody learns somewhere along the line that text can be unintentionally inflammatory: that joshing email taken the wrong way, that blog post that inspires a flame-fest of comments, etc. Maybe, when intentions really aren't hostile, voice just might "sound" less hostile than text.

That one kinda grabbed me too.

I can't speak for gamers, I'm not one. I can't speak for Virtual World 3D Internet Advocates, I'm not one. I hated that stupid book when I read it . All I can speak for is Me. (And *sighs* I guess Chas ). My use for SL is purely Recreational. Escapism. I maintain a wall between 1st and Second Lives for several reasons, Annonnimity and Personal Safety among them. That wall will not be removed. If not using Voice can't permit me to enjoy my Second Life, then I will go elsewhere, with no regrets.

I don't feel LL(singular) has an obligation to run new features by us, it would be nice if the did get a pulse on what residents may or may not like, but they can and will make business decisions on their own. They trumper SL as some sort of Community but it isn't.

I don't have issue with people who choose to use this "Optional" Feature, nor with those who don't, for whatever reason.

The cell phone texting analogy is interesting. Oddly enough, I hate text messaging. I rarely used it. Seeing a group at a table in a restaurant texting away, and not speaking to each other drives me nuts, to each his own I guess.