The King is Dead

Normally if someone says that there has been a crime commited by someone else who's name they know I'd say to the accuser prove it in this case I'm telling you the accused prove it since you smell like the bullshit you keep spewing and until you actually give us real information and real transparency then nobody's going to believe that your not a lying, cheating, crooked thief.

One possible explanation for the high bids today (as high as L$0.26 today) is that some traders are under the impression that mr. p must purchase the shares. Perhaps some people don't realize that he can create as many as he wants out of thin air.

Top Open Buy Orders (Bid)
Shares Price per share
100,000 L$0.13
100,000 L$0.127500

Top Open Sell Orders (Ask)
Shares Price per share
18,262 L$0.15
100,000 L$0.16
90,344 L$0.17

Someone at one point was asking for a list of people who were screwed the most by this... i believe that information is available now.
Just go to the Research This Company page on wselive.com, and either view the major shareholders list, or find the pie chart and mouse-hover over the slices to see names.
One warning... at least one person in the list was there before... the one who is sell sell sell.

Has anyone had any legal advise in this matter?

just my opinion

All the evidence is given. The judge scratches his head "so let me get this straight. You invested virtual money in a virtual bank, inside a virtual world on the internet. The virtual bank offered a gazillion% interest to be paid in this virtual currency. After a ban on gambling in the virtual world, there was a run on the virtual bank and the price of virtual assets fell. The virtual bank ran out of virtual money, and if it were to liquidate its virtual assets, because of the fall in their value they would still not have enough virtual money to pay everyone off. So they introduce virtual bonds to be traded on a virtual stock exchange. When virtual trading opened the virtual bonds were only worth 15% of their original value. To be straight with you all i can say is go and find a virtual court that gives a shit."

again just my opinion

And having done that, the records of his dept to them would be where exactly? They are VICTIMS of the Ponzi, Not co-conspirators. deleting records would serve no use to anyone but the Originator of the scheme.

Angel.

whether true or not - it doesnt make the Scam any less bad.

In fact I think this is the sort of thing Nick is Counting on.

You left out the fact that those Virtual Dollars have a REAL World cash Out Value, so REAL money would have been stolen.

Some people Love to conveniently forget that fact when you are urging people to forgive theives and i'm beginning to wonder WHY? since it's a fact we have ALL known since day one in SL.

Angel.

What's done is done guys. We all knew this was a risk and while I'm not exactly thrilled with losing that money (honestly, I hold no hope that any of us will ever see the majority of that money again) its done and over with and there's nothing we can do about it now. If we do see it again, YAY! BONUS! However I doubt it will ever come back around so we have all of our money back. Thankfully I didn't have a ton of money in there.

However, I think ya'll are partially pointing the finger in the wrong direction. If the mass of you who did go ballistic and tried to yank all of your money at once had kept a level head about you, then just maybe this wouldn't have happened. Maybe I'm being naive but ya'll who went nuts didn't help anything. "OMGWTFBBQ! I CAN'T GET TO MY MONEY RIGHT THIS ABSOLUTE MICROSECOND! THE WORLD IS ENDING!" Chill, people. Honestly. I know some of you had tons of money in Ginko but for crying out loud, the first rule of ANY investment (and whether you guys want to admit it or not, this was an INVESTMENT, not a BANK and it did carry risks with it) is you never part with more money than you are willing to lose. If you were not willing to lose all that money, why in the hell did you essentially give it to a perfect stranger to do what he would with? I had a small chunk of money in there to draw a few extra L a week in interest and that was it. Yeah, it sucks that its gone, but thats the risk I accepted when I deposited my money. If you guys weren't willing to accept that risk, then you shouldn't have deposited your money. And freaking out when the *$#% hit the fan did not help anything, it only made everything worse. Knee jerk reaction but still.

As for Nick...if it was a scam, he's gotten away with it and I see no way of making sure he's held responsible. LL will take no part in it, you'd be hard pressed to get the FBI involved, and I see it as a perfectly flawless plan. AKA: you're effed, get over it. If it wasn't a scam, then it sucks to be him right now, and I only hope he's doing what he can to get us our money but ... like I said, I doubt we'll ever see it again.

Speaking of LL...I still see no point in the initial gambling ban in the first place. I mean, yes, the US has laws against internet gambling for MONEY. They have laws banning gambling for $$$. It never says anything about points, tokens, whatever. Not so far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Now, I can see where it can get messy concidering you can cash Lindens out for $$$. That's where it all gets iffy. I /could/ get into the Japanese game 'Pachinko' and how they get around the gambling ban there but ... I won't. There is no doubt in my mind though that this whole thing will fall by the wayside eventually though. I just wish everyone else had thought of waiting for the storm to pass instead of flipping out. Its called patience, and a great deal of people could stand to learn how to use it.

Helps explains why hes resisted over and over providing much in the way of documentation of the non SL "Investments"

that isn`t entirly true as his local IRS can screw him back tenfold if they would get all the info, even if it means he`s immune from every one else as this is real money when cashed out

They don't have a cash out value, you offer them for sale on a market. So no real world money has been stolen.

I do feel for all who have lost out in this. If it was a scam then is it not time to tip your hats to Ginko for their ingenuity. Cut your losses, sell your bonds for whatever you can and put the whole thing down to experience.

When he sells the $L for real $ then that would be a completly different case. maybe he will pay tax or maybe he will withdraw the money to a country that will not look too closley at his accounts

If Ginko had possesed Investments to support its level of debt it could have massively slowed the bank run by simply detailing them.

Any blame pointed at people for not keeping their money in a Ponzi scheme is missing the bigger picture.

Perhaps, but one doesn't HAVE to have the intent to set up to defraud for it to become an illegal Ponzi scheme.

Even Ponzi himself in his autobiography said that he had the *intent* to really invest all the money in some grand scheme so he could pay everyone back plus all the promised interest; the feds just stopped him before he found that investment (that, and the fact that he would have owed SO MUCH MORE money in interest by the time he did get around to investing it properly, there is no legit investment in the world which would have been able to return it all).



Actually, that is the lead-in to all Ponzi schemes. Big promises of returns, obviously high-risk, but the schemer shows through his "confidence" (and initial success in the early rounds of the scheme), that he is smart enough to mitigate the risks and land the promised returns.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the original intent was. What matters is where the @(*#$%(&*% money went and how it was (mis)handled.

That's for a judge and jury to decide, but I don't think you will have to worry about that in this case. What a lucky lesson for you.



Maybe. Maybe not. They may not get money from *you*, but they may get money from Linden Lab, as I am sure any suit will name them because they are a significant party to the deal. The only "revenge" anyone could get from you is to get you banned. Yeah, I know; it wouldn't amount to anything, really. Again, lucky lucky.



Well, why don't you help us appreciate its complexity by EXPLAINING IT IN DETAIL? Oh, be sure not to leave out the part where the @(*$&*(@%& money went.

It's hard to appreciate the complexity of something contained inside of a black box.

Which is better...the potential that everyone might have gotten some of their money by slowly pulling it out and not going insane, or everyone freaking out and being stuck in the situation we're in now?

To quote a resident:

"What I know: ... - A ponzi scheme at 10% a year can last, even without new investments, 11 years fairly easy (as you can invest the money at a low safe return), at which point people are very willing to give you more money without any new disclosure."

Check out who said it - clearly it was a *very* well-informed individual when it comes to Ponzi schemes.

The original post is here.

/130/7e/71981/8.html#post750699

The first condition was impossible. Most of the "Money" does not exist. The only way investors could have gotten their money out was for other investors to come along and put their money in the "bank".

In other words .. a Ponzi scheme.

Actually if the Ponzi was propped up for the current round of investors it would have ended up costing LATER investors much more money in the long run.

Ultimately, it would not have mattered. At some point, there would have been a run on the bank for whatever reason; as time went on, even smaller runs would have pushed Ginko to this very point, precisely because the whole scheme is unsustainable; the longer it runs, then more likely it will fail with less cause.

Your argument is the same one many people used in the original Ponzi scheme. It's kinda like being in a room slowly filling with sewage. Someone makes waves, a bunch of people get a mouthful, panic, making more waves, and everyone drowns. The point is that, eventually, the room will fill up to the ceiling, and everyone drowns anyway. By that time, it will have that many more victims.

No, the best possible thing to happen with a Ponzi scheme is for it to be uncovered and stopped quickly. Yes, it sucks for those who get burned, but better them than many more folks, and for even more money later.

(lol here I am agreeing with Talarus on several threads, I guess as long as were not arguing over Bots we can co-exist )

They can take whatever position they want; it will have no effect on them being NAMED in a suit. It would then be up to a judge and/or jury to decide if they were liable and, if so, what damages should be awarded to the plaintiff(s). You'll note I was not arguing the merits of a suit naming LL as a party; that's up to the Legal Beagles to decide when it gets to court.

Yes, I guess my stay on your ignore list must have been very short. It was nice and cozy, too; I had it all to myself.

You might wanna put in a bigger bathroom, though...... <.<;

Put Squeeze there instead.

He deserved it more anyhow.

---------
Although maybe I should put Nick P there -

Just incase I lose sanity and fall for one of his future investment schemes.

You are a bad person. Why? Because you want to lock me up. The only thing worse to a man than being locked up is being dead. You want to do this not because I commited some cruel crime, like running over an old lady, but because I have run my business in a way that, while entirely legitimate, does not please you. A way that makes you suspicious. People who caught the "something for nothing" bug are outraged when the risks involved in acquiring high returns materialize. Even when they materialize for other people. I'm not surprised.

The bottom line is that nobody has lost a single cent.