Ejecting an intruder from my land

Advices for quiet scripting:

1/ Set Busy mode
2/ Wear a banner "I'M SCRIPTING, I'M NOT REALLY HERE"
3/ Turn off sound. If you don't want to turn off all audio, mute noisy residents. It takes the same time than ejecting them and is less rude.
4/ Optionaly: write a notecard explaining what a scripter's screen looks like, and why the scripter cannot see and interact with the world.
5/ Let them do what they want.
6/ If everything fails (which i doubt) go scripting underwater. If you have no water, terraform water. It's free.

What an excellent distinction! Looking back, that's exactly what most bothered me about the intruder incident. He was interrupting me at a time when I did not want distractions.

There's not much point in being modest about my AV's body -- as many posters have made clear, nothing can stop the camera lens from going through walls. But my assumption was that entering Editing Appearance, while nude and standing behind a closed door, was a clear sign that I was not interested in chatting with random strangers who arrived unannounced.

So locked doors and security are my way of keeping people out of my face when I'm not in the mood for chatting (which I find a rather tedious exercise in the SL interface). Whether or not they can eyeball me is beyond my control; whether or not they can engage me in conversation, otoh, is completely under my control.

Thanks, that perspective will help me frame my interactions in the future. I won't think of it as a "privacy" issue so much as a time-allocation task.

I've been mulling over your posts and find your perspective very informative and interesting, although rather limited.

Yes, SL can be a place to share creativity -- and I've been awestruck by places like Svarga and Caledon and the Gardens of Bliss -- but that is just one purpose out of many. Those specific places can be appreciated in the context of sharing visions without expecting that everyone in SL wants to share everything they have.

If I had the time and money to buy a big chunk of land or an island, there are several projects I'd love to develop and share as showcases of my own interests and digital creativity. But right now I have just one little plot of land and its purpose is very different. It's not an especially creative build, not something that warrants exposure to a wider audience. It's a retreat from my hectic RL schedule, a place to listen to music (because my RL stereo isn't working) and unwind.

AVs can go ahead and look -- as you've discussed at length, there's not anthing I can do to stop them -- but I'm not interested in sharing my time or attention with anyone else while I'm at home. When I'm in the mood to socialize, I TP to public areas in which social interation is at least one of the acknowledged purposes.

Yes Regan. That's exactly what we think when we script. We are not interested, well, we *cannot* share our attention because our attention is not here. SL world is obscured by a pile of windows. Like when your are listening to music, you attention goes to the music. It is a time-allocation task, and even IM are disturbing. I have to leave the scripters channel because when a scripter don't script, he talks with other scripters and he talks a lot, beleive me But we cant' handle both at the same time.

In the set of notecards i've written for newcommers, there is one explaining that, if an avatar does not answer or notice their attention, it is not a lack a respect. It is simply that he/she is not here. I had negative behaviours, even had insults in-world from residents lacking to understand this point.

A point about "I'm at home". I have no "home" in the sense you mean. Or i am at home everywhere. As the concept of virtual land for me is: computer resources, the concept of virtual home for me is: a computer directory.

BTW, just noticed a strange thing in your post : if you listen to music in SL, you have a working stereo, the one on which you play SL audio. So, streaming your music to your PC will do.

Life generally becomes a lot simpler if you avoid the "should" and "ought to" and deal with the reality of human nature. Should there be true privacy in SL? Of course there should. Is there? No. Should people respect locked doors in SL? Of course. Will they? No. Should people you invite into your RL home snoop in your bathroom medicine cabinet? No. Will they? Yes. People are inquisitive in nature (current White House occupant excepted) and they will by nosy because that is just the way people are.

If you are hanging around on the ground, you will get visitors; lots of people just wander around SL looking for green dots on the map. Leave aside the should's and the oughtta's and accept the fact that you will have unwanted company from time to time. Some will be polite and some will be 15 year-old obnoxious kids with no manners; most will be somewhere inbetween.
There are tools at your disposal for getting rid of pests without banning the entire world. For example, get a vistor counter and use a visitor message warning when you don't want to be disturbed. This way you know someone is close by immediately and they can be politely messaged "I'm scripting right now and would like not to be disturbed." Anyone who continues after than, you can feel justified in booting them from your land.

Oh, dear. I'm the first to admit that I'm completely at sea where audio is concerned (proof of which is my currently non-functional RL sterero unit). So I don't really understand your remark about my having a working sterero.

What I've got is a Chameleon2 radio receiver which I bought in-world. It broadcasts web radio stations very nicely and looks spiffy, too. Glowing numbers and knobs that really work!

So aren't I streaming music OUT of my PC, rather than to it?

Either way, it's a joy. I gather it's possible to stream through land options as well, but that's rather cumbersome when you want to change channels often or turn the music on and off quickly. Not to mention I had no clue where to get a radio URL, and the Chameleon came with a list of over a hundred stations, which was very convenient.

One of the bonuses of playing SL is that it motivated me to undertake my first computer build, which included (for the first time) real audio speakers as opposed to the tinny little embedded speakers in my laptop. So I'm entering a whole new frontier of sound that I've basically ignored up until now.

But I digress from the topics at hand.

Now, i don't mean to come off as an arse or anything similar, but this thread reminded me of something I'd said on another forum:

Second Life is not reality and no matter what others may say or think to the contrary - myself included - your Avatar is NOT you. The first post in this thread showed something that worries me each and every time I see it, personification of the Avatar.

It is all well and good to want privacy in a Virtual World, but please do not make the mistake of thinking of your Avatar as more than computer data - thinking of it as what you'd LIKE to be is fine, but never forget that it isn't YOU.

I have seen this in/on platforms far less able to cause this issue - text based chat services where role Play occurs for example.

Now, I'm aware that after this post of mine there will be those that will rise up and attempt to 'correct' me in this line of thinking: Please don't. It just shows that you'd like this sort of thing to continue - and really it does not ever end well.

Lol! Yes, I suppose my comments can be interpreted very literally to that effect. It's so hard to communicate tongue-in-cheek tone or flippancy in a forum post, especially among strangers, so I'll fully accept the blame for sounding like I'm on the edge of losing touch with reality.

Having spent some 40 years in various fandom cultures (especially Star Trek), I can certainly attest that the line between fantasy and reality can blur all too easily for some people. But if I was prone to that level of immersion, I would have succumbed long before now. If anything, I've irritated at least one of my SL friends by continually forgetting to refer to her SL character as "she". Regardless of the screen image of a young man in front of me, in my mind I'm always addressing the middle-aged woman at the keyboard. I've never met her in RL, but I know she's there.

So what exactly is MY avatar then?

I don't role-play in SL, which clearly creates a character that is separate from the author, so I suppose my avatar most closely resembles a personalized metaphor for "session in progress." So crashing in on my AV is crashing in on my computer session. It's intrusive in the same way that spam or unsolicited IMs are intrusive.

Or maybe my avatar is just an animated paper doll for an adult. I -- who loathe shopping and makeup -- just adore buying clothes for my avatar and trying out new skins, new eyes, new hair. Regan Turas is the little dyke doll that I never had as a child because the only dolls available were those stupid, boring Barbies with their femmie pink outfits. Regan gets to wear jeans and men's clothes and look stone-cold butch.

Or perhaps Regan is me in the way my name is me. My name is a set of sounds or a squiggle of lines on paper, both meaningless without the social context that ties them to me. To say my name is NOT me may be literally true but misses the human obsession with symbolization. Is it any wonder we can identify so strongly with avatars when our species becomes violent at the desecration of symbols? A flag is not the same as a country, a carved image or statue is not a god, yet people will react as if they are one and the same.

For better or worse, humans are almost compelled to make connections between reality and abstractions. We create a social context for ourselves which is largely symbolic rather than real. So to dismiss the digital context of human interaction so easily, with such apprehension, is almost arbitrary. Why draw the line there and not in the million other places where we use symbols?

Edited to add another thought:

Another dimension you're ignoring is that of play. It's quite possible to immerse oneself deeply in play and still be able to pull out again. Reality is deliberately and consciously suspended, rather than lost. To the more literal minded, this activity can appear unsettling. Sometimes the alarm is warranted, but that's not always an easy call for anyone to make when it's not their own psyche in question.

Using the same logic you could ask: Should people kill each other? Should people sell and abuse drugs? Should they drive drunk? And so on. People are not supposed to do these things, but they will do them, they're criminals by nature it seems. The real important question is: Should we tolerate it? I don't think so. Let's advise them to do better, and use disciplinary actions if they fail.


It's not worrying at all, it's human nature. If you communicate using a webcam, the webcam image consists of pixels only - only data, just as your SL avatar. Nonetheless you wouldn't want to be watched all around the clock, whatever you do.

Avatars in SL are tightly connected to the human behind them, while at the same time they develop a social life on their own. There are celebrities in the SL world, as well as business people with a reputation at risk. There are many valuable assets tied to an SL account and people can't just change their name. Watching them in private situations means that the watcher is able to take screenshots, post them on forums, sell them to inworld magazines or plainly talk about what (and with whom) they do in the privacy of their homes.

It's also human nature (or at least decent upbringing) to respect other people's privacy. Most older residents show the needed respect and manners, only some newer arrivals, coming from games like WoW, assume that SL is just another MMOG, a large entertainment park where everything is free content to explore and interact with. Even other avatars are viewed as content - I can sit within my own home with a poseball next to me, and some goon is bound to cam through my walls, past the locked door, and hop onto this poseball (female + nearby poseball = content, let's interact). I don't want to be reduced to avatar mesh, like an NPC in a game.

SL is not only a place where some gamers hang out in their free time, three hours in the evening; it's a place where people work and live. I work during the day and run a shop, and also expect to be able to spend some private time with friends in my own home. Newcomers need to learn that SL is a world not a game, with both public locations and private areas. They need to learn that a house in SL is a home, not content for the masses. That's why I'm a little worried when I read:

Sorry Jeff, as much as I like and support the idea to help newcomers, perhaps you should learn first before you attempt to teach. You're fairly new as well and seem to have a completely wrong idea about some aspects of SL, when it comes to respect of private property and privacy. Please don't pass that on.

Ishtara, I've pointed out in others places that Second Life is nothing more than a computer program created by Linden Lab, which exists at their whim. I've also pointed out that it isn't a Country, a world, or any other such notion that seeks to apply Real World terms/conditions to what amasses to a large, open-ended, business friendly game.

The Avatars have become celebrities, the media connects the Avatar to the real person and enforces this notion that an Avatar is a real being. Frankly it doesn't matter what a real person is able to accomplish in Second Life or how much they make from in game sales converted to real US Dollars: At the end of the day this can all vanish in an eye blink should Linden Lab decide to pull the plug. At the end of the day the people running real businesses in Second Life are taking a risk with a game that allows them to do what they do.

I'll state again: At the end of the day Second Life is little more than a game - yes you can run a real life business within it and make some money, but that is a risk each person that chooses this route takes.

At the end of the day - it is all computer content and is thus content. Comparing it to a web cam, which shows a real person ..... There is no comparison.

Have you ever watched a small child running and playing, and after a Few moments, the child Falls down on thier hands and Knees? Tell me, do you Feel for a second the jolding shock in Each of your own corresponding body parts? the sympathetic Burn of the scrapes on the heels of your hands, and Knees? it's a Common enough sensation, I've spoken to Many people who have all experienced the same thing. The Child is NOT you, so why do you Feel so Physicly even for a second, the childs shock, and pain?

Have you ever watched the driver of a Car you are riding in when they accidentally scrape the Curb? Nasty sound aside, do they not Wince in sympathetic Pain? I've asked Many drivers this and they all say the same thing, when one becomes Familiar with the vehicle they are driving they can Feel the contact. The Car, a Ton of Inanimate Insensate Metal, Rubber, and Glass becomes an extension of thier bodies to a point where they can experience sensations through it.

No, in the Literal sense, our Avarars are Not our bodies, and minds. This is perfectly true, However this does NOT alter the fact that we as players and as human beings personalize them, and Internalize them so on a Psychological leve we DO feel through them. They are not Real, but they are Real to Us. That ability to empathize, even with the inanimate is a Very human characteristic. Some people think they are demonstrating a Rational frame of mind by saying "You shouldn't feel anything because the Avatar isn't you" but all they really display is a Lack of Empathy, and that Lack of Empathy, either in game, or in a Larger sense In RL is the Primary cause of most peoples Poor interactions with other people. they simply Cannot Fathom how Other people are effected by thier words, or actions.

As it was pointed out to me earlier, peoples Psychology plays a strong role in how they conduct themselves On Line, as in the case of Overly defensive people. They are bringing thier Needs for Intense personal security In Game. But what disturbed me was not so much thier need to place cordons about themselves so much as the Need or desire to take thier concept of security to a Level where they are Lashing Out. Making preemptive strikes BEFORE they determin whether they are being in any way threatened. Translate those actions into RL terms, and discuss them with a Psychologist, and see what s/he has to say about it. That is what i found disturbing.

I feel a Need for security, and yes, it IS based upon RL experiences, but i Know in my Mind i Cannot Be Hurt by a Guest in my Home. At worst, i can be Inconvenienced by them, but that is all, but NOT everyone who wanders onto my land means me Malice. I have sufficient Empathy to Not want to Harm someone because of the Past actions of others.
People here have said "Well, why should i wait for them to make the first strike?" Well, In waiting, and being polite, you Might actually Meet someone who could be your best friend, or More. On Line, I recently Married a Woman who introduced herself to me by Following my Girl Home. a Sin that seems to have Many people ready to launch every weapon they have at the Intruder. Had I chosen to do so, i would not be Married now, or be as Happy as i am. Nor would she, If i may speak for a Wife who Thanks me every day for taking her In.

Privacy is a Good thing, but like anything that is Good for you, it becomes Toxic If you Over Indulge.

Angel.

Nice, but your still telling us your understanding of the matter is still greater. Sorry.But again your are placing yourself before those that are feeling such reactions. Your failing to understand the there are many many diff people in a wide range of social, age, eco, etc.....SOme have had real life issues with abuse etc. Assuption is a dangerous thing to do with peoples emotions and why they do such odd things. Your in no position to explain human nature to us in anyforms. If you had any backgroud in human behavior you would underdtand why I am not agreeing with your views. Sorry But yet again I have to say "The Human expience Is a powerful thing on sl! assuming about others without logic means nothing.................." Please if your going to try to play Psychologist.....don`t. Because you have no real background to do such.

Angel, it's because of empathy that I don't see an Avatar as anything more than a bunch of computer data - attempting to compare computer data to a living, breathing being is another poor way of defending such things.

Aside from that .... no problems with yer response.

Do you mean : not answering or answering too late from the point of view of the person trying to get my attention (that's why I have been insulted) is a lack of respect? I'd like to understand.

Sure, the avatar is not much more then some computer-data. But I have to agree with Angel, the emotions and feelings of the person behind the avatar are very real.

Maybe you have some emotional blockade at your keyboard, I don't have this.

If someone is SL calls me names, I feel that RL. If someone treats me badly in SL, I feel that RL. If someone take no notice of what I see and experience as my privacy in SL, I feel bad about that RL.

My emotions and feeling don't stop at the keyboard or mouse. For a big part it is an exchange of emotions and feelings with other people... through a medium with avatars.

Look at it as this: When someone tells you some good or bad news through the phone, are the emotions of the feelings of the news not real because the phone is just a dead thing that uses analog/digital data to send messages between people?
Well.... SL is my phone!

Morwen.

Hello Solar, Morwen has just outlined well my view on this but can I quote back to an exchange I had with Jeff yesterday?

Your mention of avatars being a pile of pixels is all very well .. physically. Physical behaviour in SL is way, way different to reality.

I'd forgotten the original post so just reread it. I find nothing 'worrying' with Regan's attitude or behaviour, physically or socially.
Social behaviour is what inspired the stranger to ram his camera through a wall and burst in on Regan on what was a private activity.

You say the avatar isn't us. Mine is. With the minor exception of machine or server glitches I am (and feel!) responsible for its actions. It speaks my words, it goes where I direct it .. sometimes .. but it is an extension of me. When I speak or am spoken to, I, the person, am communicating with another. This in my view, is a world.

You can banter on about data to your hearts content but this entire thread I think Regan will agree, was based on Social Behaviour. Physical behaviour was the symptom, not the cause.

I think this would carry more weight when discussing pixelating av's.

Is it not a matter of degree? I don't think a low res web cam with a grainy picture and jerky motion is terribly realistic either. Its like reading a book, it's all in your imagination!

I wasn't referring to your example, just to the general point that you just arrived here, don't seem willing to respect the play nice rules most residents agree about, and yet want to tell other newcomers how this world works without the will to understand it first.

In the very least, SL is a place where people come together, spend a lot of time and have to coexist. One needs to be polite and respect fellow humans wherever one meets them; it's really that easy. Avatars represent a real person with feelings that can be hurt and with a privacy that can be invaded. No matter if you view SL as a game, as a platform, an online service, whatever - it doesn't change the fact that you don't only deal with digital data only when you interact with other human beings.

If you want to nitpick what SL actually is, then let's agree that it's a medium of communication, like email or a chat client. I talk to and interact with other people all around the globe, ergo it's a communication platform. And as such I have a representation there; if I use a webcam, I'm represented by my camera image, if I use a phone, I'm represented by my voice, and in SL it's a 3D avatar. Wiretap into my phone, intercept my email or spy on my SL avatar - it's all the same, you violate the private sphere of a real person.

Besides, a lot of things in our lifes have become digital data only. The money in your bank account is just data. The wages transfered to you by your employer are just data as well. It only works because everyone agrees to accept digital data as currency. Of course you can get cash from your bank, but they don't have the complete amount of hard currency owned by all customers available in your local branch bank. And if the banking system of your country collapses, or the economy fails and the inflation rate shoots through the ceiling, all you ever worked for in RL suddenly becomes almost worthless.
Also, many businesses depend on services provided by other companies. A phone sales company depends on a working telephone network. A webshop can't exist without the internet. An eBay shop has to rely on a single service provider without any competition. The fact that they depend on unreliable technologies doesn't make their business any less real.

Actually Morwen .... yes, I do have something of an emotional blockade. I don't expect anyone to believe me here but when it come to Empathy - still amuses me that Angel chose that particular word - I've got the bases more than covered.

I'm an empath. This means I don't have sympathetic feelings when I see someone crying ..... I actually feel what they are feeling. On occasion it can happen over a long distance - happened more than once while I was using AOL, despite defenses in place ..... and it has happened while I've been using Second Life - only worse. I just chalked it up to a very strong emotion from the person - after reading a few things here and there I know that isn't the case.

Maybe it are my motherly feeling or whatever, but when I see someone seriously crying, I feel the need to care. Too hug and hold the person in pain... to help him or her.

I am very emotional and I live by emotions.

Wonder who is better of.

Morwen.

It would be interesting to learn opinion of participants of this discussion about suggest to developers SL to add to all residents SL (not only to land owners) an opportunity to be invisible by own choice.
/13/92/157916/1.html#post1374715

An interesting concept Pilot, but one which I fear would compound the problem rather than remedy it. As some of your thread posters already point out. the option of being invisible is open to further abuse by the very griefers and other uninvited guests you are hoping to avoid.
I'm sure many land owners don't want their creations to be invisible, merely secure. In this way, the elimination of allowing cameras through walls your avatar cannot walk through would be the more understandable cure. Newbies don't forget, take a while to adapt to what is available to them here and an option on being invisible I think would merely make things worse.
A closer parallel to the real meaning of solid would be a far easier concept to grasp .. and appreciate.


Edit: Are you suggesting just the contents of a land plot are rendered invisible? or the building? and what of visitors travelling through - would they pass through structure and avatars utterly unaware of co-existing in same space?
Seems a lot more heavier engineering Linden-side than merely making walls solid?
Would make for some rather boring and/or confusing landscape and scenery?

Becoming invisible? Ermm... no, I don't want to hide.

I want people to walk up to my door, see that its locked and think "Oh Morwen is busy or doesn't want to be disturb by anyone. I will come back tomorrow" and create a landmark.

I don't want them to use them the camara to peek into my house, I don't want them to tresspass locked doors. That is all.

Right now I am building an galary for my work I did as photographer. The door is locked as it all is far from ready. Inside is an visitor counter installed with a range to 15 cm from the inside of the door (the building is 16 by 16m). So the visitor counter only catches someone when that person tresspasses the locked door.... and that means a direct way to the banlist of the two parcells I own (the galary is not at my house). No discusion. So there are already 3 persons on the banlist because of that... and those are persons with accounts that are least some months old.

Edit: Maybe doors and walls should get some mark that makes it impossible to be penetrated by the camera and makes it impossible to move objects/avatars through. The (land-) owner should be able to set this mark on the walls and doors.

Morwen.

"Client Menu", "Disable Camera Constraints", set your draw distance to 256 or above.

Anyone can look into your build from across an entire sim. Ban people all you like, but you will never get around the camera abilities.

About twenty years of electronic communications learned me that they must not be used as real life face-to-face communication. Lack of NON-VERBAL CUES leads to false interpretations and severe misunderstandings. Is it first or second degree? Just kidding or being sincere? Depending on the choice you make, your relation to the person may go the wrong way. You can think he is unfriendly when he could be your best friend, and vice-versa. That's why smileys have been invented for. Carrying non-verbal meta information.

Problem get worse when bandwith get lower, and chat is the lowest bandwith communication after Morse code. Video-conferencing (the wideband one, not webcams) does carry non-verbal information. The telephone does, in the inflexion of voice. SL does not. So, not reacting emotionnaly is essential if one's want to avoid mistakes.

My social relation inside SL are similar to one i have in a professional context : deeply implied in the role, weekly implied in the private person. It is not emotional blockade, it is emotional management. In that way, my avatar is not me. It will never engage in a personal relation. I, the human, will possibly, once i've met the person irl. The same applies to my relations over the internet.

I'm not roleplaying, byt my avatar is an agent to which i assign a role. Representing, in Second Life, the part of my personality necessary for the game. "Hurting" my avatar is not hurting me. It is hurting my computer session, as someone said. Reacting emotionnaly would certainely affect me irl, which i don't allow.