Ejecting an intruder from my land

I never understood why people take the time, trouble, and expense to Log Themselves into a Highly Social environment and then take almost Insane efforts to Cut themselves Off from the Humanity they find there.
There is some Very disturbing thought processes going on there.

Angel.

Yes, very disturbing indeed. It is almost like if you don't like do as them, have other opinions as them... or for heaven sakes disagree with them and even dare to express so, that they try to push you away... isolate you out.... try to put of range... And sometimes they seem to need no reason at all.

Very disturbing indeed. Every now and then it even shows here on the forum.

Ahh well... basically, their lose.

Morwen.

So because this is a social environment, you think it's "dysfunctional" to not be willing to let someone sit in your home on your furniture and watch you undress?

Why is it so horrendous to you that some people want some privacy in their own homes? I just don't get this.

Sure, there is a lot of socialization that goes on in SL. But there are also parts that have been inserted specifically for some private time. Otherwise, there would be no point at all to "owning" land and building houses. Everything could just be done in public squares.

"Socializing" is NOT all there is to SL.

I think that people who believe that every second spent here should be publically viewable are the ones who don't understand the purpose of a large portion of SL.

Where did I say that someone unasked watching you undress is acceptable? If you read carefully what I said before that I expect people to behave polite and listen to my rules on my land.... Your example clearly is over the line and if someone would not leave the room an eject/ban may follow fast.

And yes, certain parts are inserted to be private... but make clear it is private. Lock a door, put out a sign...

And wiith that said, is that suggestion you make that I think that every moment in SL should be "publically viewable" is not correct. Only thing I say is that the frontdoor is not always a border that cannot/should not be passed.

And yes, I still think people act at times too protective of `their land/house"... meaning banlines, security systems that throw you back, rude langauge when just stand at the border of someones land.

Morwen.

Interesting perspective, because I've never seen SL as a "Highly Social environment."

In fact, the chat interactions with other AVs are what I find least interesting about this world. Chat conversations are almost always shallow and trivial because it's so difficult to rise above the limitations of the interface. IMs are only a hair better. I find this forum to be much closer to a social environment that I do in-world encounters.

My fascination with SL is centered on the visual creativity and expression of imagination, with places such as Svarga or the Gardens of Bliss. Occasional chat exchanges are pleasant, but not what I'd consider to be riveting inducements to spend time in-world.

Which is probably why I was particularyly peeved by having a stranger barge in on me. I'm not here to chat, to make friends, to go clubbing. I'm here to build, to learn how to script and to applaud what other people have created. If I were the only AV in SL, I could still quite happily fly about and find plenty of activities to keep me occupied.

Different strokes....

I'm only passingly sociable, I'm quite shy to be honest and I spend a lot of time scripting on my own. However, one thing about SL is that there is almost no public land at all, or rights of way; expecting nobody to ever enter your land is unreasonable unless you're in a private sim where there are such things or you own it yourself. And some people - I'm sure not yourself, but they do exist - do that, banning everyone, having aggressive security devices, screaming abuse at anyone even coming near them.

And of course at the other end of the spectrum we have people who think it's their right to just wander in wherever they want even if it's clear they're not welcome and they're intruding.

In general people most are between the two extremes. I've found that if one says "excuse me, this is a private area" most people apologise and leave, and similarly, if I'm looking around an interesting build and I find I've intruded on someone, saying "oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise I was intruding, I do apologise" results in people being very sensible about it. Sometimes in the former situation they don't, and then you have to use the ban tools, as you did.

One thing that helped me greatly was installing a little cottage on my land with a door which could only be opened by me, and a doorbell. Almost everyone would ring the bell when I was inside, since it was clear I wasn't to be disturbed. Actually, I mostly script now in a little glass pagoda thing facing the ocean, and people rarely bother me there even if they are wandering about, since I'm not visible from the road or my shop.

Oh well.....

Have you studied Environment Psychology? IN RL I am a Interior Design person REAL LIFE...I have studied from first level univ to grad levels.......I can see and undertsand why people do surround themselves with protection devices? because in their real life they feel just as scaried/and or peaceful life. They just bring it over into sl. Its basic 101 Environment Psychology. Not everyone feel the same as you. SL sl is a game. But for some its just a extention of their rl.... AND NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!its not disturbing..How can you say this? Are you those people that have rl feeling of fear or other emotional factors causing to act as they do? Ever since P2P its been a nightmare for people privite lives on sl.
Just my " yen worth of understand


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To add on to this I think you missed the point of this topic. This person felt confused, and they should be. Since ( there are many people from around the world )and how they view social behavior!!!!!!!!!!!people really don`t understand the concept of how to act in these BIG GAME and the cultural diff people ahve in how they life.....Saying "Cut themselves Off from the Humanity they find there." This remark is too exteme since it was not meant as this at the start of this topic..........Oh well..... Again Just mY 2 yen worth of experience of understand such issues.

The Human expience Is a powerful thing on sl! assuming about others without logic means nothing..................

One thing to keep in mind about SL is the only way to TRULY have privacy in world is to buy an island and close it off from outsiders. Bans on your parcel may keep "intruders" from walking in, but they are ineffective against camera movements unless you have a parcel has a centerpoint that is more than 45m from any border since camera panning range is about 40m. And camera panning penetrates solid objects. So walls will not protect you either.

Yes, you can set bans, you can have locked doors (which can be penetrated quite easily), you can buy "teleport home" security orbs (which SHOULD BE banned as abuse or disabled by the eliminaton of llTeleportHome), and you can set bans on your land. But in the end, it is a false sense of security. If you see someone close to your border, turn your back to them, hold the alt key down and press the down arrow. If your camera takes you to where you can see them, make no mistake, they can see you too. And they are breaking no rules by doing so.

Were you within your rights to ban the likely newbie? Yes. Should you have? Well..thats your call. But maybe a polite request that the person leave might have been just as effective. Most newbies are harmless. They are just exploring and trying to get a feel for the "world". And we were all newbies once.

I fully agree with that. I come into Second Life to see other people's cerations and share mines. What would be the interest to contemplate my private world and share it with nobody? "My house" in SL has non sense for me. It is not my house because i'm an avatar, a bunch of pixels, and a bunch of pixels don't need anything like a "home". Like it does not need anything like "bar", "kitchen", "bed", "shower" because a bunch of pixels does not drink, eat, sleep, wash.

About "locked door". What doors? Avatars don't need doors and I never use them. I don't behave like a human and don't have to. My avatars' right is to use my avatar's capabilities, not to limit myself to human capabilities. Avatars, remember, have telepathy, telekinesy, and can see without being there.

Why should I "walk" when I can send my camera? This is far more efficient since it does not use the simulator and the network. And with huge video RAM, my camera goes far and fast. I walk as few as possible. I Teleport, Sit, use scipts, which are more efficient ways to move in an avatar's world. This is also my avatar's right *and duty* to use programming techniques to move efficiently. This is augmented reality, remember.

So, something like a "locked door" in SL seems really alien to me. If i really need privacy, I build a closed box and if a Resident enters it, i will politely ask to leave.

Well, those are your opinions... and somehow I can understand them, but I don't agree with you.

My locked door is a sign I give. And yes, you can pass through and look behind it. But there you tresspass my privacy. Worse, you don't respect it.
Mostly my land and house is open to anyone, because I agree on sharing and enjoying the creations of people. More, I love to meet people.
But when I have a serious conversation someone, I want my privacy. And I expect people to respect that on my land.... even if game mechanism allow different.
In RL is not everything you can do allowed, so it is not in SL for me.

Morwen.

Call me an asshole, but usually I push people like that around with phys objects, and or shoot at them with low push/high gore bullets to make them feel unwanted and try and fly away. Then I usually trap them, pull them back down, put them in a box and toss them around until they bitch at me. Then by that time they either decide to port away, or I launch them 4 sims with a nice big push bullet.

This is normal for us at our house, then again, you'd have to actually see where I live - In a dirty junkyard themed land with a shack made mostly with rusty tin metal and cinder blocks as my house, messy looking white-trash furniture, all behind my giant abandoned warehouse themed shop, all roadside, about a sim or two from the infamous "freebie warehouse". So you can imagine how much fun my partner and I have just hanging out at our place

YES I could put up no entry, but I like to respect my neighbors. I always hated it when I'd try to fly away and get cut off by this ugly invisible wall with NO ENTRY all over the side. And YES I could just not do anything and add them to the ban list. But thats no fun, and there is no lesson learned.

People should sometimes think of just walking into ones house, especially if its very small, made of cinder block AND has a giant bloodsplatter next to the door with floating text over it, completely visible before you walk in, saying "nero busted a noob's face for breaking in...yes, this is our HOUSE!!!".

We have locks on the upstairs door with the bed inside, yet people try and try to find a way in even after its locked. Most of the time they dont know about poseball/camera angle or the ability to slide yourself inside with a prim.

So, really, I think of myself as doing a public service. You can imagine what kind of people *cough*newbies*cough* do these things at my property. And Im the one to give them their first random beating for walking into a place they had no idea they shouldnt be going into. They'll be more cautious next time the scenario comes up though, yeah?

This is essentially what homes are in SL. Closes boxes. There's little pieces of the grid where we can be alone while afk or in another program or while having a private conversation or scripting, or building, or watching a movie or whatever. Some view the physical representation of the house as their box. Others see their entire parcel as their box. The interpretations may differ somewhat, but the underlying idea remains the same.

Not everyone who comes to SL is here to look upon others designs and sense of style, and share their own. Some come strictly to chat, others to roleplay, and stil others to play games and hang out as it were. I too employ locked doors and a security device, because when I'm home...or in my box as it were...I'm not looking to socialize. I may be in photoshop or here on the forums, or even just trying to have a private conversation with someone either "face to face" or remotely without outside distractions. Having a door that says "Sorry...but this place is locked" seems a better idea than to have to verbally ask everyone to leave, as after some time I may become irratable and say something ruder than I'd like.

If I'm at a game pen, I'll talk to anyone and everyone. In a club, either as a patron or employee, I do the same. I help people out when I'm out and about shopping, or if they happen to catch me pretty much anywhere but inside my box. For a long time I too was one of those types who's say "Hey, come on in" to random passerby who'd wander up onto the porch, but there's only so many times you can have someone pop into your house and act a fool, or pester you asking for handouts before you get tired of it. Or rather...so many times before I get tired of it. You may comepletely different than me.

While I respect those who have open door policies and have crafted large beautiful estates for others to enjoy, I also respect that not everyone share that mentality.

~EDIT~
(Queitly wonders to himself if Nero ever finished that skin they talked about...and if he's still squatting on Paper Street)

You mean like the Paper St. House?
It's been a looooong time...

Indeed it has. But mentioning Paper Street is a perfect example. It was deliberately designed, built, and listed as a squatter house. Someplace to wander in, sit down, chill out, and just exsist. Even had free movies and cartoons and such. I used to spend many a night there when I couldn't sleep. However, I only did so because that was it's purpose. To be an open door hostile type build for those with no place else to go, ya know? The door was unlocked and the place was listed under Search as a squatter house. Had their been so much as a locked door, I doubt I would have spent any time there, let alone as much as I did.

So again, I can understand, and respect, and appreciate those who build for others to enjoy, but at the same time, as Nero can attest to....just because some places are meant to be public areas where you can shoot the **** as it were, not all areas are.

Yep! I loved that place, its changed alot around that neighborhood. I eventually moved out, but not because it changed. The only thing different about the house is its physical aspect, was rotated 90 degrees, has a basement and a better yard. New and improved I guess you could say. Havent been there in a while but Im still in touch with good 'ol loch, the creator of the place.

But anyways, yeah, I loved the old fight club squatter house, People came, people left. Was perfect.

These days, I've got my own big plot of land, split down the middle. In the front roadside is my big abandoned warehouse shop. People are free to come and go as they plaese, stand around and babble on about everything and nothing as long as they want. Hell, I could give half a shit if they had a gun battle in there. But when they go behind my shop, over the fence into my junkyard and INTO my house without saying so much as a "hi", I think I've got the right to take it upon myself to rip 'em a new one They can hang in the yard if they want, but hellllnawww, walking straight into my house? hah.

(and yeah, I finally finished that skin before I moved out of the house Even tatted it up a bit later down the line a few times, did so for my partner as well. Yes, you heard right, I'm partnered...lol)

I respect privacy of any Resident as long as I know that he/she wants privacy. A locked door is not a sign if i don't use doors. When i see a nice building, I explore it with my camera. I don't "enter". So, i cannot notice the closed door.

For my own privacy, i've built a 20x20x20 closed box. No windows, no doors. If you get in, you know you have crossed some sort of barrier. In the center of the box is a radar sensing every minute à 10 meter-radius sphere and delivering a message "This is my private area, please be kind enough to leave". This can't be missed.

So in your terms.... If I take a binocular and look through the window into someones house I am not breaking her/his privacy? After all that way I cannot see if a door, a fence or whatever is locked?

Don't know about the US. But over here in The Netherlands I may get a visit from the police for that.
And you may not handle RL values or whatever in SL (stating it is just a game), but many of us do.

Morwen.

Morven, an avatar has no eyes. "Seeing" in SL is in fact using a motorized camera. You have no other way to "see". That's rooted deep in technology. The environment is downloaded into your local graphic memory, and you move a viewpoint into this memory. You don't move your avatar. So, comparisons with RL have limits. In SL, you are using a monocular. Always.

Second Life is not Real Life. It is more. And avatars are more than human. Some RL values apply, some don't due to their augmented capabilities.

You are missing the point. Many things that are illegal in RL are not illegal in SL. Peeking in someone's RL windows is illegal, as is keeping a slave or having duels to the death in RL. They are NOT in SL. You have NO entitlement to or expectation of privacy here.

I was ejected from someones land today for the first time ever. I was looking at an empty plot on a private sim, and guess I wandered over the property line. I was thrown in the air and landed in the middle of the property I was looking at.

No one was home anywhere around me, and I thought it was a bit rude to do that. I would have said hello if anyone had been around!

But I will admit that as a newbie (only been on SL for 2 weeks so I guess I still am) I would walk in peoples houses is they were unlocked. Not when anyone was IN them, but I wanted to get an idea what people did with their houses.

Now that I myself have a house, I had someone walk in and say hello yesterday. I was polite and we talked for a while. I wanted him to not feel as lost as I did at first

But going back to the OP, I think what you did was fine. It seems like he needed a lesson, and he got one!

Well, first I wouldn't call Second Life more then Real Life... Real Life is for at least for me still more then Second Life.

The whole point is (forced by rules, by laws, by TOS or not) what is decent to do. You say rules allow me to do this and I am capable to it, so I do it.
And there I disagree. I say, even when you are capable to do something, it doesn't mean it polite, nice or decent to do so. Interpetation of human values it is about (and the result of that is not always enforce by rules or whatever).

When someone comes up to me and ask me if she/he can look around in my house (and as said before, the door to my hosue is mostly open). I will have mostly no problems with that and I will be happy to answer every question in the best way I can.
But someone gazing into my house from a distance gives me a "voyeur" feeling.

Morwen.

No, I am not missing the point. Even when the rules, TOS and whatever allows some things, doesn't mean it all decent, polite or nice.
Yes, maybe by the rules of SL I cannot enforce my privacy. Human interpretation of some values should do so.

Morwen.

But the value of respect is not diminished by your augmented capabiliites. If you trespass, even with just a camera, on to another's land then you are showing a complete lack of respect. No if's, and's, or but's you are being rude and inconsiderate.

But if I'm using my camera and I'm not within that distance then you have given no sign, by your own logic, since you also pass through walls like your cube to see itno houses.

By your logic, you have no private area.

Not necessarily.

There are 50+ members of my RL extended family in SL and given that we live in several countries we come to be social with each other more than the rest of the SL community. So yes we have our private family only space. I don't know of another environment where it is so easy and comfortable to hug your cousin who happens to be 10,000 miles away.