Is SL a "game" or another word?

Alright then, virtual manifestation of a real world >.<

Of course there are those that hypothesise that the world we're in is already a simulation, which would make SL a simulation within a simulation!

I wonder if our avatars ever think the same thing...

orrrr ..... SL is the true reality .. we've been looking from the other side of the monitor all this time!

Don't ask me about the alts!

I think the idea is much older than Elizibethan. Its just no one before or since has found a way to say it better.

Most concepts involving human thought and behavior root far back in history. Luckily. It would be sad if the human condition was defined only by our "Stuff".

Plato thought some words were handed down from a previous more perfect existance. I dont buy it..

A Rose is a different word in a dozen different languages. And it still smells as sweet.

The idea's found in Zen Buddhism and Taoism as well, of course. The idea of a name being nothing more than a label isn't new. However, those philosophies also warned against accepting anything as 'known'. These ideas might be wrong or - and this is a bit harder to swallow - the concepts upon which they're based might change.

This is precisely why SL is not technically a game. In a game, all player must consent to game play. (imagines the "but the TOS is consent to play" The TOS agreement with SL is an accepting of legal terms of conduct while using the product as they percieve it. SL is used both for games, gaming, playing and socializing as well as for work. Therefor, many of the people involved are not consenting to playing a game, unless your definition of a game can be expanded to RL as well. So far the best definition of SL is that it is interactive autocad.

PS read the book Finite and Infinite Games by James P Carse p 1986. Blooming brilliant read

.. and I was having such a good day

Ohh I dont think so.

The problem Philosophers sometimes have is they only talk to themselves and other philosophers.

An Anthropologist would likely not be of the same illusions over origins of words, for example.

Hehe.. an Archaeologist can probably find you dozens of names for a rose that no longer exist. And yet they still smelled as sweet.

*ponders* Or is there some proto-language dating from the dawn of time that we somehow link back to, kind of like when we link to stuff on the forums, back when they worked?

Perhaps the primitive caveman grunt for rose - does not smell as sweet as the primitive caveman grunt for mud.

Ask the guy on those Geico commercials.

I don't know. Is the sweet smell of a rose an inherent part of human experience or merely a cultural norm? In some cultures a dog is man's best friend; in others, dogs are vermin. In some cultures the colour white signifies purity; in others, death. Where there are cross-cultural differences in the perceptions of a 'thing', surely the respective words to label those things carry different connotations.

mmm .. so it IS a game then.

I think

sweet is merely a word used to describe the smell.

The rose still smells like a rose.

A dog is still a dog

the color white is still the color white

whatever they are called -

Whether they are good or bad things is not part of that.

--------------------------------------------

If I call Second Life a Game - who does that hurt? Does it change what Second Life is?

Even if I feel it is a game by someone elses definition does calling it a game change how I feel about Second Life. If I started calling it a Banana, would my perceptions on what Second Life is broaden?

Mainly the only people calling Second Life a game affects are people who are very new and dont know what Second Life is for them yet. And People who havent been to Second Life yet.

For those people were better off it being called a game than some of the alternatives the media is chomping at the bit to use.


Though I still go back to what I said earlier

SL is ..

a mess.

Whether or not you call it a game probably depends on the context in which you're talking about it. If that context is "is it a game or not?" then the answer is "whether or not you call it a game probably depends on the context in which you're talking about it. If that context is 'is it a game or not?' then the answer is '''whether or not you..."

[repeat ad infinitum]

/me pats Bilbo's hand

The reason why Second Life is not generally called a game is because it does not feature the following:

* A fixed method of progression
* A score
* A victory condition
* Intentional conflict between players
* Abstraction of skill
* Rule-enforced fairness

If you believe that it can be a game while not having any of those, then that's OK. But Second Life is not _marketed_ as a game for the reason that it lacks these - and that's good, because people who come into Second Life expecting a game with them tend to end up upset and disappointed when they discover how it actually works. (I spoke to such a person yesterday - their reaction was, "So we just wander around aimlessly?"

That's reserved for the Foums......

I get that, but I'm not talking about things on a scale of good-bad - I only used those as examples because that scale is easier to comprehend within this cultural context. The cultures in which white is a colour of death tend to celebrate death rather than get all sombre like in cultures where the colour of death is black, right?

However, that's gone off somewhere where I don't see how it's relevant any more

What -is- relevant is this: I think Second Life should be what I think games should be. (If we accept computer games as a medium separate from traditional games.)

hhahaha i am sorry. All do respect and i mean it this is alittle extreme reasoning no?

Then ok, role playing is not a game either? Either is some people using sl as a sexual outlet? All those factors you wrote about might be true for some simulation platforms. But Second Life is is Role playing, Buying and selling, etc.........

SL is a place for people to have sex that can't normaly get it in RL

Ooops did I say that out loud? Don't worry...just joking around all

For some it probably is. Not that there is anything wrong with it.......

Hehe. Not at all. As a matter of fact I was getting taken advantage of last night while virtualy sleeping on a sex gen bed. I was like "go at it dood" Not like it bothered me any. I was watching TV

If there are no quests, then how come camping chairs are so popular? People spend time gather tokens (linden) so they can upgrade their gear. Sounds like every RPG I ever played.

Rather than "rule-enforced fairness", I should perhaps have said "removal of unfairness".

Role playing generally features at least abstraction of skill and removal of unfairness. If it does not feature fairness then usually most the people who are on the "losing" side of the unfairness will leave.

Using SL for sex probably features these too.. certainly removal of unfairness (RL unfairness of different levels of physical attractiveness).

some people think real life is a game. Second Life is whatever you want it to be. Its as real or not real as you want it to be. Are you conscious? what do you see. Do your dreams bleed? Did you know Second Life is at this moment being used in metaphysics? Put some soul into your machine. What i really despise since being here is meeting people who try to force their realities into my dreaming life. Stop trying to control everyone and everything around you. Learn to be more flexible, adapt and accept or ignore what you dont agree with. If your beliefs are so solid then surely they will survive being tested when you are confronted with contradictions in this world. When you argue about what second life is you act like frightened children scared of whats in the closet. Who are you debating with? "THEM" or . . yourself. Find out for yourself what Second Life can be for you. And have the human decency to allow others to do the same.

I don't get that.

Are you saying there's something wrong with debating with myself? But how can I be flexible (which you also advise) otherwise?