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Is SL a "game" or another word? |
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Dana Hickman
Leather & Lace™
Join date: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,515
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05-16-2007 20:44
As always, I'll settle in the middle. To me, it's not a platform because platforms need to be sturdy and reliable enough to build upon... It really hasn't been that. It's not a game either because the only things it has in common with a game are you use controls, a mouse, keyboard, and its made from game looking graphics. Those items in itself do not constitute being a game. The entertainment factor is a side effect. I'd say its a virtual world... a combination of those catagorized things, plus a lot more.
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Jesseaitui Petion
king of polynesia :P
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 2,175
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05-16-2007 20:46
I don't mean to be smart ass, but... does it matter? Call it whatever you want. Why fight about it? Platform, game, entertainment, hobby, whatever. Seriously, in the long run, is it really worth arguing about? I dont understand why this always comes up and why people get bent out of shape over it. Its obvious SL is what it is to each individual. Theres ppl who think its a game, and ppl like me who use it as a platofmr and therefore to me, it is a platform. To those who use it as a game, its a game. No big deal. |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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05-16-2007 21:11
SL is not a game because there is no way to "score points" in a gamist fashion without switching over to using it as a platform, after which you pretty quickly have to give up on the game.
You can create points-scoring games inside SL, it's true, but saying this makes SL a game is a it like saying that a field is a game because you can play soccer in it. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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05-16-2007 21:13
Must be summer, rerun time has started.
Those who are tired of the game/platform debate might do well to just pass this thread by and let those who haven't done the debate yet have their fun. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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05-16-2007 21:31
there is always cable programing to watch. Do us a favor and watch it.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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05-16-2007 22:29
Well...if we really want to get into things THIS deep... ...then life is a game. Seriously. And yea, I actually treat life like a game. I was just trying to work in the 'generally assumed definition'. Why is important to realize SL is not a game? Because if people do realize that, perhaps they will start treating it like a platform and allow for an actual economy to develop. Additionally, treating SL like a platform may hasten the day of platform neutralization--where a whole slew of independent companies get their hands on "SL" and turn it into the internet "for realz". It IS a game though, to me. You don't define it for me. Get over your sense of entitlement. Games can have economy.. just look at WoW..even an economist went into its economy. Heres one site about its economy..and yes IT IS STILL A GAME. Both those links show a real economy in a game..something you claim can't exist. I quote one bit.. Castronova: As process, there is no distinction that I can see between “virtual” economics and real economics. Things are scarce. Production technologies allow scarce things to be made into consumer goods. Consumer goods get sold and used. What’s weird is that (a) the things being made are a little strange at first—magic wands instead of diamond rings, gold pieces instead of Yen—and then (b) the fact that everything is a construct of some designer, an aspect that has policy implications. As for blurring or intersecting, again there’s no big surprise from the standpoint of standard economics. Given specialization of inventories and needs, trade follows. Some people have more synthetic world items than they want. Others have fewer than they want. Of course the two economies blur. Why wouldn’t they? If laws, barbed wire, guard dogs, and prison terms don’t stop traders from trading, why would they even pause over some alleged line between “real” and “virtual”? That line gets asserted over and over, but it’s a misleading step. It gets ignored by everyone who actually uses cyberspace on a daily basis. That includes YOU, dear reader—are you actively keeping conscious right now the fact that you’re reading a Web site and not a magazine? Of course not. The fact that it’s a Web site changes some things, sure, but not that much. You’re still reading something my editor asked me to write. And the relationship between him, and me, and you, is what’s really driving your experience right now. The “virtual” isn’t playing much of a role; it’s the relationships that matter. What makes it not a game besides the creators and your opinions? Because if that what it takes - quit calling any card deck based game a game. Quit calling ring around the posey a game. They weren't created as such. Second Life is a game to me. Its a platform to you. Its a toy to others. A world to some. A joke to more. Noone can dfine what Second Life is for everyone, Kenn. get over yourself. Oh yea.. in case you're thinking of dismissing this economists findings based on education, you should Check out who he is first. Heres a wikipedia page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Castronova _____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
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05-16-2007 22:29
It's a toy. No set goals => not a game Not reliable => not a platform Therefore, it's a toy. So, then Windows is just a toy? _____________________
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Abu Nasu
Code Monkey
Join date: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 476
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05-16-2007 22:55
gainMoney != Game
!gainMoney == Game Sums it up for me. |
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Warda Kawabata
Amityville Horror
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,300
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05-16-2007 23:17
If its a game, I wanna know how you win.
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 I rent out land on private islands. Message me in-world for details. |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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05-16-2007 23:30
If its a game, I wanna know how you win. Games don't require a winner or loser. Open ended RPgs often have no 'win' condition. Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have 'winners.' _____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
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05-16-2007 23:38
It's a campsite!
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Kez Oh
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 26
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05-16-2007 23:44
^LOL! Thats more describes it. Maybe throw in dancing.
I can settle with "Its what people want it to be". But at the end of the day its still people in a virtual environment "playing" around doing what they want, just like a MMO, except instead of it being a "specific" MMO this one lets you do what you want. So its "My MMO". If I want to sell something then its a "Business MMO", if I want to chat and dance with friends then its a "Social MMO", if I want to Role Play then its a "MMORPG"....etc. You can't say it looks like anything else but a game because theres nothing else like it because it is a game! Animations, physics, models, textures, sounds..... all things like a game! The biggest problem is people that aren't gamers come in here and say its not a game and don't even know what a game is to being with and think they know what they are talking about. I don't mean that in a mean way, their just misinformed. |
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Kenn Nilsson
AeonVox
Join date: 24 May 2005
Posts: 897
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05-16-2007 23:55
The biggest problem is people that aren't gamers come in here and say its not a game and don't even know what a game is to being with and think they know what they are talking about. I am a professional game designer and programmer...and was, until recently, an associate producer for a video game company. According to Banking Laws, my opinion that SL is not a game is oppressive and I'm not allowed to have that opinion. I must instead get over myself... ...but at least we can all agree that SL runs on a computer...right? Maybe? Am I being oppressive? Would someone like to deny that? _____________________
--AeonVox--
Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music. |
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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05-17-2007 00:08
The biggest problem is people that aren't gamers come in here and say its not a game and don't even know what a game is to being with and think they know what they are talking about. Hahahaha you are so wrong...........simple thought for simple people If its a game, I wanna know how you win. Another great examplesimple thought for simple people Oh strange people live in another country ( example japan )and play in the same VR other ( Japanese simlation )....really makes you think where people minds are these days. |
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Warda Kawabata
Amityville Horror
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,300
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05-17-2007 00:12
Games don't require a winner or loser. Open ended RPgs often have no 'win' condition. Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have 'winners.' I don't regard those as games either. they are toys. And toys are infinitely superior to games. _____________________
I rent out land on private islands. Message me in-world for details. |
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Zephyrin Zabelin
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 153
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05-17-2007 00:20
I think it can be different things to different people, and different things to the same person at different times. That's why I have mentioned before the idea of splitting the grid, so people who want to use it as a toy can enter a grid where their play won't disturb people trying to do something more structured, and where the people who want to be structured won't cause misery and bans to people who are just wanting to mess about.
By all means allow users to pass between the grids, but make it a deliberate act with notification that they are passing to a place with a different ethos. Then those who cannot fit with the ethos of one of the grids can be banned from that particular grid after collecting a critical number of bans from estates within it. |
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Jackson Rickenbacker
Registered User
Join date: 8 Oct 2006
Posts: 601
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05-17-2007 01:13
I dont want to add more arguement to this thread so I'll just give my stance
Real Life = Game Second Life = Job Maybe its screwed up thinking, but it works, and I get to enjoy my real life alot more now that I dont enjoy my second life as much |
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Kornscope Komachi
Transitional human
Join date: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 1,041
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05-17-2007 01:22
It's not a game:
To me, it's unpaid work and some pocket money. It's about creating "art" which I can't do. Learning, communicating. It is a game: It's all about the "High Score" in the top right hand corner. Whoever has the highest score when it dies is the winner. (And cannot take it out!) _____________________
SCOPE Homes, Bangu
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Francesca Alva
Registered Trademark
Join date: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 507
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05-17-2007 01:33
Check out this thread.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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05-17-2007 02:05
I am a professional game designer and programmer...and was, until recently, an associate producer for a video game company. According to Banking Laws, my opinion that SL is not a game is oppressive and I'm not allowed to have that opinion. I must instead get over myself... ...but at least we can all agree that SL runs on a computer...right? Maybe? Am I being oppressive? Would someone like to deny that? Perhaps you should answer my post, since one of the factors of 'not a game' included it having an 'actual economy.' It might be prudent also to prove the man with a PhD wrong in regards to games having 'actual economies' inside of them. Of course if you'd read my post, you'd see that I said to some its not a game. SL is not a game to you, I'm not going to define it for you. But you don't get to define it for me either. I never said oppressive or that you weren't allowed to have that opinion, you just seem to have a persecution complex. You also can't put words in my mouth, or say what I mean. You are not me. Instead of whining respond with proper debate, post proofs of your views, rebuttals of others views. I have, and a accreditted economist disagrees on you about games not being able to have 'actual economies.' I dont want to add more arguement to this thread so I'll just give my stance Real Life = Game Second Life = Job Maybe its screwed up thinking, but it works, and I get to enjoy my real life alot more now that I dont enjoy my second life as much At least you're honest. That your view on it, Jackson, nothing wrong with it. _____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Gillian Vuckovic
Purple Power!
Join date: 4 Mar 2007
Posts: 176
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05-17-2007 02:49
So why not just call it a game then and stop pretending its not? Does it bother you so much that not everyone follows your line of thinking?  _____________________
It's always a party with Funzo!
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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'tis a glory
05-17-2007 03:27
'I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't - till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"' 'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected. 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.' _____________________
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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05-17-2007 05:12
it's a life simulater
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Morwen Bunin
Everybody needs a hero!
Join date: 8 Dec 2005
Posts: 1,743
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05-17-2007 05:44
*giggles*
This thread reminds me how I long ago called Ultima Online "just a game" and was flooded with deep going analyses of RPG's and MMORPG's Morwen. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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05-17-2007 05:52
SL is ...
a Mess  |