Gambling Equipment Removal List

Agreed putting the stuff to privet islands and restriction of where you can have it some how needs to be done.

yes a cleaning is in order.

I don't see the casinos as the same at all

Oh yeah I don't want any kids real or depicted in my SL.

I hate the little bastards LOL N/R J/K

Strife,

If you come back to look at this, could you possibly nudge LL into giving you a list to amend to your OP as to any specific types of "games" that are definately banned?

ie, the one's listed on the orgininal Blog, as well as any others LL feels that should be added.

Be sure to note that the list is NOT all-inclusive and that changing the name doesn't make it "legal" *chuckles* I know "brainiacs" that have tried that already *rolls eyes*.

Also, IS there any LL policy on what is, and is not, legal? If this policy is on a case by case basis of what an individual Linden "thinks", then that makes the thought behind this about as intelligent as the battle at Waterloo.

~Jessy

I wasn't talking about child porn, SL should take those people to court and deal with them harshly. I was obviously talking about general XXX content which SL seems to accept, despite most of it is against copyright laws I'm sure it must be.

However, if they clarify their position and section it off to one continent they could police it much better I believe.

Point taken about the cost of moving servers and company though! Although I'm sure paying someone in India (for example) to do the technical stuff is a lot cheaper wages wise.

R

I see 'ON A ROLL' mentioned. I have one of these machines. But the 'pay in' feature has been disabled and the winner doesnt win a thing. Does this still constitute an illegal machine?

If the player can't pay in, then there is no wager and no policy violation. It's as simple as that. Of course, that doesn't mean that a Linden will pay attention to how the game is set up when they decide to return it.

I think that's one of the biggest fears ...

Rokku, I don't think you understand how the relevant U.S. law, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act ("UIGEA" works. It does not target internet gambling activity per se. It targets the funding for internet gambling and one of the ways it does this is by requring all financial institutions subject to U.S. law to block payments to site operators for internet gambling. Linden Lab could move its offices and servers to Mars and it would not matter if they rely on money that must eventually flow from or through a bank or other financial institution that has US locations because the money would be blocked from reaching Linden Lab's account. Further if Linden Lab operates a separate platform where only non-U.S. players could log in it still wouldn't matter because the UIGEA specifically authorizes banks and financial institutions to block funds even if they cannot verify that those funds are being supplied for internet gambling, i.e. all they have to know is that the Linden Lab provides internet gambling and that money going to Linden Lab is coming from a U.S. player and they can block the funds.

sapphire moon sim up and running with video poker,linden protected,i guess it safe to bring out games again

Wow that's amazing, what your really saying is that America can tell the rest of the world to abide by its laws and decisions.

America really has a 1984 style grip on this planet doesn't it?

Frecking amazing, and truly scary, because it demonstrates how people's freedom is being destroyed, but I'd rather be on their side than against, so get me a grey uniform and I'll enforce their 'Brazil' (80's Terry Gillian film) style laws as well.

Anyway, are games of skill allowed? If someone made a SL version of 'Millionaire' where u choose from 4 questions and win money, would that be ok because you are using your knowledge/skill?

Or if you guessed the next answer to a mathmatical question within a certain time, say 10 seconds?

R

depends on who owns the game,if you friend of LL you can have any game in here.

So are sploders allowed or not? I have seen them still being used and upon inquiring was told that after a call to LL the decision was made that the sploder didn't fall under the policy.

And who pray tell told you that? Any traditional sploder which requires payment to participate and then randomly gives out linden dollars to the participants is not allowed because it meets the criterion of SL's anti-gambling policy. That is why Linden has removed sploder balls at many clubs.

Clubs are now putting in alternate versions to sploders where players pay money in and then vote for a winner so it is more like a spontaneous popularity contest funded by the various players. Since the random chance element is removed from these games, they are allowed.

Problem is games of "SKILL" are allowed. ANd other said Sploders are not allowed. Then again i am still seeig Slot machines around as well.

[12:12]  Talirion Loon: hi XXX ;)) i think i need now to contact you directly ;))
[12:15]  Talirion Loon: like i heard zyngo is now also ok, and i think you sayed some ppl some things about my games, but no one visited me the creator or answered any request of me ;)) Questions about this games: Streetz, Gemds, Dragonz, HackIt, SoloDices, Sudoku and Pictz! i think that are all for the moent ... i i know you have tested them ... most of them only SoloDices not because of the name ;))
[12:24]  XXX Linden: i'm not sure about SoloDices
[12:25]  XXX Linden: all the others are okay
[12:25]  Talirion Loon: thx .... test solodice iam sure you will not get over 0 points ;)) lol and me or some good players will get about 10k ;))
[12:27]  XXX Linden: i'll check the solodice and let you know...

So you see all games are legal now only solodice needs a check, but iam sure it will be ok if i fight a little bit more ;)) its only the dice in the name ;)) lol

As for the slots, it could be a language barrier and don't relise slots are against the TOS or just waiting for a Linden to nuke them or tell them it's a no-no.

On the sploders, I've seen "timed sploders" in some clubs and the owners saying they're still legal, but since they still use a random number, to me I'd consider them illegal.

"timed sploders" as you say are not allowed. But regular of normal money balls devices are still ok. As for slots, well if you pay into them and you don`t get your "PAY IN TO" back in the next turn. Its concerned gambling. Hence Slots are gambling.



Could be a language barrier well could be, but i hope i explained more clear now.


Usagi

Yep. All that shows is even some Lindens don't understand the gambling policy or don't understand what zyngo is or both. It's not even open to debate unless one is simply going to pretend that one doesn't understand English. For most zyngo games currently running on SL a pay in is required, randomly generated tiles can affect the player's score, and there is a payout to the player with the highest score within a set time period. This is not rocket science and it's kind of sad and pathetic to know how clueless some Lindens are about what games their own policy actually covers.

If the UIGEA regs are adopted in their proposed form and banks get wind of what zyngo is, Linden Lab could find itself in a bad situation where banks refuse to clear payments from SL players to Linden Lab citing the UIGEA regs requiring them to block funding to any site operator of unlawful internet gambling.

Some people may think that the banks will never find out but think about how many disgruntled people leave SL every day and how many of them would be happy to write their local congressman about zyngo to try to stir up trouble for Linden Lab just for spite. Lord knows there are plenty of congressman that have nothing better to do than call for investigations for such trivial things. Don't forget this is the country which has no end of real substantive issues for its federal legislature to address yet congressmen are happy to waste hours upon hours of time to pass a motion to change the name of french fries and french toast in the their commisary to "freedom fries" and "patriot toast" because they are upset at France for badmouthing the US government for invading Iraq.

I make and sell a timed sploder, and I can guarantee you it does not rely on any random numbers. It has a fixed countdown clock, and pays the largest cut to the last person who pays in. It tells you how long it is, and when it starts - it just doesn't show a countdown.

I've sold about a hundred of them since just before the Gambling Ban was announced, and have yet to have a single buyer tell me one has been returned. I can't recall exactly where, but I believe I saw at least an implicit approval of these types of devices from a Linden. I've seen a lot of /Residents/ contest the legality, but haven't seen a single Linden do it.

Buckaroo Mu
Mu Industries

Yeppers. Since it has no random generation of a factor that affects the outcome of the game your sploder product is fine the way it is.

All i gotta say is what the heck. they ravaged into my plot and returned lots of items left the zyngo but returned 5 DMC. Is there a difference. Free DMC! Its only the right thing to do. They are both equal in my opinion. Same gameplay. Different maker, Different name. So what!

You cannot disriminate against one for whatever reason its not right at least in legality.

Different Linden staff might do things differently. One might not be sure, so they may return the items. Others might know more about the various items and be more selective on returning an item. At least the zyngo was left.

I am holding boxing tournaments is it legal to bet on who wins? If anyone knows for sure pls let me know If not I'll ask a linden directly. thanks!

Dear Sir or Madame,

I used to operate Myth Gaming. Upon the declaration that all wagering in SL was banned, I immediately pulled my poker tables, 12 in all and stopped a business that employed 48 people around the globe. It amazes me that the 1000s of hours that were spent creating a gaming room such as Myth was killed overnight. I understand the logistics of the wagering business and I understand why the ban was implemented. Saying that, I'm sure you are well aware that overnight, underground poker houses have opened up, and are very very prevalent in Second Life. Anyone looking for a game of poker can find one. Why is it that I cannot legally operate a poker house when the people that have these underground poker rooms are not being held accountable. There have been a number of stories that have been relayed to me that those people operating these back rooms are warned and they simply just move their operations. I have visited at least 3 of these poker rooms, and NO I have not reported them. Why didn't I? I didn't report them because I don't think Poker is illegal.

Here is another set of issues I'm having with Second Life. Since the closure of Myth Gaming, I have paid my tier in time, each and every month. I had 4 islands, now I have 3. I sold one so that I could keep up on my payments and not loose what little assets that I have remaining in Second Life. I have started working extra in RL to keep up with my Second Life obligations. This month I checked my PayPal for the island fees that were charged and long behold I see a transaction for: Foreign Transaction fee. Here are the details that I copied and pasted.
Debit Card Purchase (ID #xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)


Original Authorization

Date Type Status Details Amount
Oct. 21, 2007 Debit Card Purchase Completed Details -$195.00 USD
Oct. 21, 2007 Foreign Transaction Fee Completed ... -$1.95 USD
Net Amount: -$196.95 USD


Related Transactions
Date Type Status Details Amount
Oct. 18, 2007 Authorization To SECOND LIFE.COM 1 800 8606990 GB Completed Details -$195.00 USD
Oct. 21, 2007 Debit Card Backup Funding -Bank of America Bank Account xxxxxxxxxx Completed Details $1.95 USD
Oct. 21, 2007 Debit Card Backup Funding -Bank of America Bank Account xxxxxxxxxx Completed Details $195.00 USD
Original Authorization:
Additional Authorization:
Total Payment: -$195.00 USD
-$1.95 USD
-$196.95 USD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fee:
Foreign Transaction Fee
Amount:
-$1.95 USD
Status:
Completed
I called concierge at LL, and they told me that the payment processors of Linden Labs are in the UK. Now that's interesting, why was I not informed of this, and why am I getting charged a fee for being in the US. If LL is in the US and cannot allow wagering due to the processing of currency, when and why did they move their processing to the UK and is LL now a UK based company, and if it as UK based company can players resume wagering practices in SL? Are all US players of Second Life with premium memberships chareged this foreign transaction fee?

I personally have held to the laws of Second Life and RL, I have a legitimate concern with these backrooms and am hoping the that new Skill Game Protection Act will pass through congress and LL will act appropriately. Poker is a skill and therefore should have never been included in the ban in the first place. Poker does not involve a conventional pot of monetary value. Each person that plays poker knows that it is skill. No matter what your cards are, you can still win depending you ability to read other players, your ability to bluff. IT IS A SKILL. I hope LL comes to the realization that poker is indeed a skill based game with some of its components being random, although these random components can be controlled by the player. If a player does not receive 'good' cards they have the option of folding their hand, and not wagering or putting money into the pot. Again it is player controlled. Poker therefore would not be considered a random game with a pot payout.

I look forward to hearing from anyone at Linden Labs and hope to get this situation resolved. Why should a legitimate business owner suffer when others are profiting on what that business had build from the ground up?

Sincerely,



Mithik Vavoom *Second Life*

Myth Enterprises LLC

Bravo!

Well said, good points, every one... in all the researching I have done on the net, just about all card games are considered skill based games, so your question is more than valid. Sadly, I doubt anyone at the Lab will actually do anything or change anything in order to ensure that illegitimate gambling is held accountable for the same rule that legitimate gambling has suffered from. See it is just as easy as it ever was to remain anonymous in SL, get busted, and open a new account... simple.

The real shame here is what we are witnessing is nothing more than an echo of what is happening all over the internet. Instead of allowing the entrepreneurial spirit to thrive as you would expect anything "American" to, you see the real truth up close and personal. The feds walked in to SL and put the fear of G.O.D. (Government Of Doom, Destruction, Death, Deception, lots of D words will fit here) in Philips ear. See in the real world, if you don't play by the corporate Gov's rules, your corporation doesn't really have a chance in hell of surviving. It was a survival based instinctive reaction to kneel down and become subservient to the will of the man. Not as if LL hasn't made enough dough to move the servers off US soil, but then they'd have to leave home, break a lot of ties, and dissolve alliances. Then they'd be on their own, in a big bad corrupt world where it pays to give in.

I honestly feel sad for Phillip and everyone else who believed in his dream, in a different world it would have flourished as it should have, into a wondrous and beautiful thing of indescribable magnificence. Instead we see it choking on the same agenda the whole country is choking on, indeed the whole world is choking on, becoming yet another victim to the game that is being played on us, the people. If I-Net gambling was allowed to exist for Americans, and properly regulated, it would be a huge boon to our economy. Without going into all the boring numbers of it, I would direct your attention to many of the web sites that have been set up to provide the information about the truth of the impact of the ridiculously biased and special interest serving bills (that's right, all sports wagering is illegal, EXCEPT FOR HORSE RACING... look it UP) that were deviously snuck through congress. Suffice it to say that while Americans are continuing to gamble online, now all the money is leaving our economy and not a cent is coming back, and that's Billions of dollars a year people.

American's make up more well over half the number of online gamblers (actually closer to three quarters), and even with the current legislation continue to do what they do. instead of allowing there to be American based gaming providers for these people, the4yare forced to look to other countries to satisfy their desire to enjoy what they should be guaranteed the FREEDOM to do within their own borders, where at least a good portion of the 7 plus billion dollars they spend a year could remain in their own economy, and the winnings they receive through regulation could be taxed to also inject a much needed 1 plus billion dollars into a collapsing economic disaster of apocalyptic proportions.

No my friend, LL is not strong enough nor powerful enough to stand up to the kind of influence that is playing this game on the American people, and indeed the entire western world. The only way they could is everyone else did the same. Do not condemn them as your suppressor; understand that they are in the same boat you are.

The only fix for SL is to fix RL. Research the facts about the world, and history that have been horrendously distorted and concealed. Think I am a crazy conspiracy theorist? Damn right I am, and it's only a dirty word if you are still standing in the stocks with the rest of the herd.

Gambling is but a fraction of a fraction of the liberty that is being denied you. Press on with your campaign for fair and just treatment, but direct your efforts in the right directions. Every ounce of strength that the people have left in them is going to be required to recapture the true American Dream that the founding fathers laid the groundwork for wide awake, and we let slip away when cunning and self serving little men hypnotized us to sleep. Recapture the dream, wake up and fight for it as a reality, and dream about it no more.

God bless us the entire world over. In my mind, every one of the world's people are Americans in their hearts, the true American, who believes in the liberty of the individual and the power of a just people's will. The republic is not so much a country of geography, as it was a great idea of hope for everyone, equally, and peacefully. We all want the same things, when you remove all the crap that the current state of affairs has burdened us with.

Knows this will be removed for straying off of Strife's clearly stated topic, but I am saying it anyways, and I will begin saying it every chance I can, because our lives and the lives of those to come all hang in the balance. This is the endgame people, if you can't see that by now, you are too much a deep sleeper and must overcome the desire to sleep in.

Save the Republic of America you were raised to believe you lived in...
Vote Ron Paul 2008

resmod do your worst.

I Just had mine returned to me today and a warning issued about the use of gambling equipment in SL - I am appealing the decision because this sploder does not use any randomly generated numbers in selecting the winner nor the amount won, it is in my mind a game of skill (to be the last person to pay into the pot when the known timer countdown ends).