Gambling Equipment Removal List

That depends how large role the randomizer plays on the outcome of the game.

Those games of skill are still gambling. The payout does not equal the payin......Its not skill its gambling.

What if the payout equals your skill.... a contest where the best gets a fair amount of the pot while those at bottom almost nothing... That would mean the payout is equal to skill and nolonger a hazardous bet, i would rather call it investing money in your skill.

That is a fuzzy logic really. If your going agaisted 2 others? No Its not skilling its chance. Remindes me of a really had very of cut thoat game on sl. If the egaul amount is not awarded or the person given amount is not return its just another street game.

Not sure what your point is. It's one rule, but not the only rule. If I make a machine where you pay in $10 and always get back $15 that is not a gambling machine.

No it doesn't. LL's policy does not require a minimum threshold for the role that the randomizer plays on the outcome of the game. If it is there together with the other elements under the LL policy it is prohibited.

No, it wouldn't. The cards are randomly chosen. There is no card game that is based entirely on skill.

I took down 2 my computers, 1 old school slot, and one bravo 8's slot. as well as my 2 sploders.
really sucks as the thing is I played them I don't think any one else ever did! lol i never made any $ from them they were just really entertainment so now chess and mah jung /me shrugs

the sploder was fun and people loved coming to events as I loaded it up and we had a good time gambling or not it was not harming anything and my governments laws are just insane!

Well not all machines are doing that today if you are great. just make sure all people know this and it doesnt short them anytime.

Anytime you put a wager in a device and you don`t get equal amount or greater its called gambling. How hard is it to understand skill games are just anotehr form of "CUT THOART" where the fastest or last person adding to the the pot wins.

Tringo, etc, are considered random because the pieces are randomly selected and the skill is only in tempering and managing the randomness. However, sometimes you will have a perfect game where no skill is needed and sometimes you'll have an awful game where no skill could help.

A truly pure-skill game could not be used as a gambling game, because if it was, then a sufficient good player would win every time and could just play over and over again until they broke the bank.

Actually, at least one Linden (Chadrick I think, maybe not) has declared that the Lindens decided that Tringo was a skill game. In the same conversation he said that the Lindens weren't making such decisions on what games were or weren't skill and also contradicted other parts of the policy, so take it with a grain of salt.

Tringo is an interesting beast. You don't increase your odds of winning by paying the game money and you can win money without risking any. So far so good with the rules. It is a skill game, it requires strategy. That said, it is also a game with a random aspect to it, nobody knows what piece will come up next.

In Tringo it's not luck so much that is the determining factor, it's the player. In Tringo the player with the strategy that is best exemplified by the random order wins. In theory that is the player with the strategy that best adapts to the random order wins.

I think for LL what is important here is that all players are equal. If everyone plays the exact same strategy at Tringo, they all win. I think that is the determining factor here. While the game may have random aspects, the outcome of the game is anything but random.

What I, and no doubt many others, are confused about is this.... US makes a law, with directives as to what is and what isn't gambling.... LL make a statement that they will comply with those laws... and this is where it goes fuzzy... WE get asked on the forums what we consider is a gambling device or game?

Some people get visits by various members of the custondians of the platform, and are inconsistant in their actions/apraisal of what is and isn't a gambling device/game.... If you guys don't know, and the law is ambigous.. how the hell are we to know?

Tringo is a skill game... just because everyone gets the same randomly generated peice, dosen't mean that they will all place that peice or any subsequent peice in exactly the same place on the board... many use their skill/judgement to place a peice based either on some previous game plan, or on the basis of experience of prediction that within a few moves, one peice or more still available, will get them the opportunity to gain a better score. Tringo is simplified Tetris with a payout. I have been in games with around 'known' players equalling 20+-% who keep winning, except on rare occasions. Those people are skilled in the game, they see patterns where others do not.

If you want to fully describe GAMBLING... look no further than business... you gamble your product will sell.. you invest hard earnt cash in a place to sell.. you gamble on the amount of advertising you think you will need.. you open your doors and wait for clients/customers to hopefully purchase your goods.. you hope that your sales will always exceed your liabilities.. if your skills are right, and your investments are right, and your advertising is right.. your location is right.. your products are right... your marketing is right.... you stand a CHANCE of winning.

Things like exploders aren't about skill/experience.. they are pure risk... it's not about how much you put in, that gives you no edge... or when you put it in... it is PURE chance.

Is the lottery, which many goverments approve of, gambling? Is the purchasing of shares a gamble? Are investments a gamble? If you want to stretch the imagination, isn't jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft with a parachute strapped to your back a gamble?

In essence, life is a gamble, without some form of gamble, there is no life.

Yes it would. You missed the point completely. The games Jarred referred to include random generation of numbers and/or symbols which affect the outcome. They are not games based entirely on skill either so IF they were allowed under the gambling policy THEN poker would also be allowed (but they are not and neither is poker).
I agree that games where elements of chance affect the outcome remain gambling under the SL's policy even if skill is a determinative factor in the outcome so I really don't understand the point of your initial response now. The element of skill in any quantity doesn't grant a game an exemption under the policy. By the way using the word "wager" in defining what constitutes a game prohibited by the LL wagering policy kind of makes the explanation worthless because what a constitutes a wager is exactly what some people are finding confusing.

Also it's really tangential to the point of this thread but the comparison of all games of skill that involve elements of chance to a game where the fastest or last person adding to the pot wins really doesn't hold water if you try to apply it to poker.

Skill games that don`t pay equal return still break current gambling rules on sl. Why they still allowed is still unknown.If the lindens themselves see these games are not waht the names suggest. The owners will be banned faster then light. People that go around rules on purpose are just too lazy to think of any other way to create fun or enjoyment.

Mind you there are some owners paying extra after paying into a pot pay in 10L pay out 15L . But Those are too few inbetween. More then not are still breaking rules within the game (pay in 20L) and get any where between the whole pot to 1L YES (1L!). But OMG some of those SKILL games as they are called ( and not talking about poker). Are just a insult and are laughing in the faces of the Lindens.

So lindens were lying when they said they had considered tringo OK ?

How the hell would it make sense to play a game if in worst case you can lose 100% and if you dont lose you'll just get money back ?

In all due repect and I mean this
What? talking about i did not say tringo......... I said waht i am seeing in these cases are paying into a object ( say 10L ) then when the pay out occures they don`t get their return of paying this case 10L but instead as I said any where from the whole pot 10L to 1L more times then not you don`t get your 10L . Now this is not skills this is just another form of Cut Troat Gambling devices.


PAY in Doesnt not Equal Pay out.......

What if I make a giant Rubic's Cube that always starts the same for everyone (therefore not random). They pay to try to complete the puzzle within a certain time (same for everyone) then if they complete it they win double back.

Not that I can actually script this lol just an idea.

Anyways would that be gambling?

this is one casino that is not being closed down and one has to wonder why. it has been reported several times but still operates if you are member of the sapphire central high roller group you can gamble .the owner has high stakes games up to 80k lindens per blackjack hand. think lindens show favourites here .and her games are NOTT fair! if people cant even have a sploader or slingo etc games then she should be shut DOWN too. lindens know about this but do nothing.

No.

In tringo "PAY in" doesn't equal "PAY out", in my opinion that is equal because you get "PAYED out" what you "PAYED in" equal to your "SKILL", should your skill "SUCK" then the "PAY out" will be small, i understand you view it differently.

Another example, if you have a 1000 L$ chess tournament, everybody nomatter how good or bad should get back 1000 L$ ?

Did i say tringo? I didnt in my posting. what i did say was in the case of SKILLS some of these pay objects are not giving out the "PAY IN" and "PAY OUT" ex 19L in the result is 1L out.

In all due repect Andy i do mean that. I did not say or refering to tringo. I never played it so i don`t know. But in my seeing of this SKILLED payout device are what are causing fuzzy and outright breaking of gambling rules on sl.




If you say it in this manner then its gambling. SKILLS is how one rides a bike, or skates on ice.

Anytime one have to rely on SKILLS to defeat others in money making example here . Fast and quick reactions means its gambling because your "GAMBLING" your faster then the others.

As a game of pure skill, chess is outside the scope of any gamling ban so far imposed by LL.

hehehe chess game of skill yes. But not inthe content of Gambling in this matter.

Unless you were a third party betting on the outcome of the game. That wouldn't be allowed.

Wow.. is the US laws that broad to prevent betting in private with a friend the outcome of a boxing match, football game, chess game etc etc while sipping a few beers in their own home, watching these on TV?