theif application on the lose

So what do you do when Craftsman posts links on how to smash a skull properly?

Objectively my butt, you aren't looking at it objectively either. You are basically insulting anyone who is taking a stand against the use of this thing in their own form, how THEY deem proper.

You think that a page that links to information and exact information on how to rip off everything in Wal-Mart.com store for free, and send them everything Wal-Mart sells, Wal-Mart wouldn't be ticked at the poster of the info?

They openly posted it, admittedly to 'show it off'. How responsible is that?

P.S. If I posted your bank account info online, but put up a disclaimer that I have nothing to do with how it's used.... since I didn't use it, you wouldn't be mad at me right?

I haven't called anyone names. I haven't called for mass bannings. I haven't closed up my shop and threatened to leave SL for good. I haveencouraged people to calm down and think rationally. Right now, you're speaking out of anger and frustration, and it's not productive.

Again: neither Baba, John, nore Jesse posted anything like you describe. They did not post "instructions on how to rip people off". Yes, Baba posted a link of the bot in action, but that's a far cry from saying "here's a tool to cheat with".

If there IS a page with "exact information on how to rip off everything", please point me to it. I'd love to be proven wrong.

I think it's funny that Go was banned, yet s/he(?) was not the "creator". More double standards from LL.

You HAVE however told people they don't know what they are talking about, when some people have seen it demonstrated LIVE and IN COLOR, and they were morphing back and forth between avs that got saved, and log off and could still change back and forth to the avs, complete with prims.

I have not once called for mass bannings, or threatened to leave, I did close my shop and that's after tons did out of protest for LL backing this (Robin saying copying is not theft), and because my store was visited by a lovely fjakfaskfnsak Canetti, starting to copy prims of mine.

Angry? You bet I am. Frustrated? Hell, yes.

But I think you should look again before saying they never posted the information. In the blog itself they stated they put it up to show off about it and that it was never intended to be sold. The page was removed of sorts, but was still accessable at last time a friend checked. It's not currently in the specific page it was, but it's still in their database as a page.

I didn't take anyone's word for them posting the info til I saw it myself. That link is mysteriously gone, however, and I'll admit I'm not a web genius, but something about a parent directory of a cache of something or other. Basically, the page is still there if you know where to look.

How does Kaneva differ from Activeworlds or There?

"You’ll be able to paint your apartment, select from one of three pre-set furniture styles, and add art to your walls. Best of all, you’ll be able to earn credits to buy from our expanding catalog of home décor items,"

Nothing about building your own content at all. It doesn't sound like it's even as capable as There, the *least* attractive of the 3d virtual worlds I know of.

Do we have proof this person was banned?


According to many, she was an alt. She probably just deleted her own account.

Not saying that you or the others are wrong, but its a possibility she just deleted.

Robin said that it wasn't theft and may not be a copyright violation.

You know something?

Copying is not theft.

Copying may not even be copyright violation.

Copying items that you don't own, yes.

Distributing copies you made, yes.

Copying something you bought, for your own use? That may not be. Do you watch TV? Do you have a VCR? Have you ever recorded a TV show to watch later? Is that theft?

You sure you're not jumping to conclusions?

But I paid the cable company to get that show to use and I use TiVo now and PAY to use that service (god it's the best). In any terms, for a TV show, even one taped off a local network, that network has in place funds for them to be able to antenna broadcast for free.

Aside from that, Robin's oozing post of love about it doesn't do anything but fan flames, by supporting the software because THEY haven't implemented anything. Read the entire post from Robin, it's totally taking the blame off not only LL for not having anything in place, that does the job it does, but for not having anything that stops it from copying maliciously.

You ARE taking someone's word, since you don't really know what you're talking about.

If you're a programmer and you own the right programming tools and you know where and how to download it, it's possible to access it.

But directions to download, compile, and use it were never distributed to the general public. Even using the program is a pain, since it's not documented. Any documentation that's out there was added by GeForce Go - so don't blame libSL for THAT.

I have a copy of the source, and I know exactly what it does and doesn't do. I'm not taking anyone's word for anything when I tell you: it can only copy prims. It doesn't copy textures, clothes, avatars, or scripts. Yes, it could copy the prims in a furry avatar, and yes it can copy prim hair and prim skirts. However, SL is not composed entirely of furries, skirts, and hair.

And again, I have the original version that was developed for testing purposes. I've also seen the version that Go sold. They're not that much different. Go cleaned it up a little, but it still doesn't rip anything other than prim definitions.

Right right, copyright infringement and theft are two DIFFERENT things.



However, I truly believe in SL its different. But nothing we can do as we have to use the RL laws and apply them when we believe something ill has occured.


(This is no directed at you btw, just chose your post to quote )

Think about it- In RL if anyone could walk through your neighborhood and say, "Hey! I like this house, and i want it" and could take an EXACT replica of your home, go buy a plot of land, and erect the home- im sure that would be considered theft. That is different from turning on the tv and recording a show. or turning on the radio, and recording a tune. Youre talking hundred of thousands of dollars being taken and used by someone who got it for free. Of course, in real life, this is an imposibility-atleast to a degree that large. But in second life- its now possible. Sure according to copyright laws if you copy something such as a song off the radio- that isnt theft, UNTIL you distribute it without written conscent from the copyright holder- you are commiting infringement. If your friend buys a CD and you burn it- thats theft.

What is happening in SL, is very different from the usual song/television examples. This is more inline of the fictionous home-taking example I gave. Or, on a smaller scale, it is similar to burning a CD- you are taking something that costs money, making yourself a complete copy of it, and not paying anything (other than the cost of a blank CD)- if you go onto distribute copies, thats even worse.


In real life, if we could walk to the stores and take copies of food, electronics, and goods, for our personal use- you can bet that we would have new laws asap to stop this type of behaviour.

Go ahead and record a live dj session stream from a club for your own personal use, thats one thing. But to go and take complete copies of ones builds, homes, structures etc? agan, that is equivilant to the fictionous example I gave of if it were possible for us, in RL, to go anywhere and take copies of ANYTHING as we can now do , to some degree, in second life.

Unfortunately its true, copy it for your own personal use and it isnt theft. However, in Second life, due to the things that can be copied, that go WAY beyond a sound stream, it very well should be. And linden labs should put an end to this.

If you could duplicate anything you saw in the real world for free, with no need to buy raw materials, then copyright law wouldn't even be an issue: you could simply dupe anything you needed. Not a great example.

The closest real world analogy is copying of books, CD's, and DVD's. All of those can be done trivially and cheaply. And you know what? The rate of media piracy in the US is going DOWN, through both education and enforcement.

So tell me again how the possiblity of piracy will ruin all IP related businesses.

I guess I was editing my post while you were posting- I added the burning of CDs.

All Im saying is, copying a sound stream for your own personal use is fine. However, a sound stream is VERY different from copying someones builds for your own personal use- THAT is theft, and that is much the same thing as burning a CD.

It seemed like Robin Linden was saying its ok for those people to copy our items as long as they do not distribute it, so does Robin then think its ok to burn CDs off of someone? Or use a p2p program to copy hundred dollar software? I guess she does, as long as she doesnt distribute it.


( I still think Robin is a male)

I was sent the link that gives out the parent directory and the title of the page was easy to get to from there, if you saw the original. How this person got to get the parent directory to display from a website, I don't know. And besides... taking someone's word for it huh? Aren't you doing that by saying that you KNOW no one in LibSL released this themselves?



Who saw it where?? And obviously since you mentioned 'added' that means it came from LibSL. Also, you are taking someone's word that GeForce Go wasn't a LibSL alt.



Just because you saw what was the original doesn't mean it wasn't modded as the day went on. And considering that Ge sold a VERY similiar version... interesting indeed. However, as I said, as the day wore on there was things released to it. So buying the original doesn't mean diddly as far as what happened. Again, I saw it with my own eyes, so I'm not even taking words for it.

If that's the case, then it's not the same program any more, and you have even less reason to throw blame at libSL.

It doesn't really matter. You've got your mind made up, so I'll stop bothering to try to clarify things.

And yet, you failed to mention taking words on things, when you so clearly pointed that out.

It does matter though. Just because someone painted something a different color does mean the originator changes does it?