Voice and Disclosure

I envy you your surety on the distance between our perspectives. What I am saying with that chunk of stuff is, are the nasty stalky horny horrible guys who form the basis of the complaint here:

a) like that when they join?

b) exist solely in the imaginations of those who complain about them, bolstered by the "don't name names" rule in the forum?

c) made that way by the startling levels of body fascism, bitchiness, cliqueism and bear-trap hidden rules-to-be-broken inherent in a lot of places that come nice and high up the search list?

I don't think we are "miles apart" in the way that stops conversation and wheels out the weapons of mass destruction; the question I am asking is, how could we establish whether my a,b & c here are the whole list, and what proportion of the incidents we hear about are caused by problems like these, rather than by some inherent nastiness in the horrible male players whose entire gender is being so offhandedly slandered by the complainants?

I know of club operator splinter groups who specifically set up because the original clubs they worked in had an overpoweringly anti-male slant, which eventually they found distatestful, and moved off to do something with a bit more milk-of-human-kindness to it. I also used to have neighbours on my plot of land who forgot that their chat would "leak" to my parcel, who many times would sit, chill out, and swap stories about how nasty, filthy (yada yada etc etc) all these awful men were... in the strip club they were advertising!

So I'm trying to look at the drivers behind the incidents and problems which people are reporting here: do you disbelieve that these things take place? What would you like to see done to reduce that incidence? Is it all up to the men to "behave" in a sea of surrounding (real and play) female perfection?

You have to admit, I hope, that such an idea raises many questions.

After re-looking through this thread...I see a trend. You guys are mean. I'm not saying this to ruse anybody, or be a troll...I'm serious. You guys don't give an inch, and you have a mob mentality of let's pick on whoever someone else is picking on.

Heck some of you probably have no history on me whatsoever, but you see that a few "known" names are flaming me...and you jump on that wagon with instant insults. The sad part is...those of you that act "intelligent" and "cultured" let these oblivious assuming flamers have at it...why can't someone with some gusto take charge and handle this...

I'm not some fowl-mouth jerk that goes around flaming and trolling--heck, those guys get by without harassment on these forums...but ME? I may not be the most diplomatic jivin' turkey in the bunch, but I certainly do have valid points. Just because my points aren't agreed upon, doesn't mean you need to continue to try and push my buttons and be jerks.

Sheesh.

Using voice will never be an issue with me,we have a choice to use it or not and i chosse not to,besides my partner thinks i'm nuts running around SL with my little avatar if i now start talking to other people aswell she will disown me...especially if she hears me chatting in one of the strip clubs

You've got it wrong (sigh, again!) Michael.

We don't pick on you to make points with some "in crowd" clique.

We (or at least me. I don't want to speak for anyone else here) disagree with you because you are so WRONG so much of the time. In other words, it's not because I like Brenda and Colette that I argue with you. It's because I dislike YOUR arguments.

After reading several weeks of your posts, I've just about decided that you do it deliberately. You take an opposing position by taking remarks out of context or deliberately misunderstanding them or twisting them. Then you complain that you're being picked on when other people call you on it.

Well, I've had it. I'm not rising to your bait any more, tempting though it may be. As I learned long ago in other forums, it doesn't pay to Feed The Troll.

Man up...you sound like you're beggin! "please don't hurt meeeee!" They talk sh@t to ya talkit right back. All a goody two shoe gets is a foot in his crack!

I just love the Child-Like Naivte', That the Government Intelligence gathering Community has EVER cared whether it's actions were Legal or Not, Or that simply because a court tells them it isn't, they will stop Immediately.

"It's only a crime if you get caught."
~Unknown~

Angel

Thsi type of eavesdropping started way before any of us were born, starting with J Edgar Hoover. Eisenhower expanded the concept as technology advanced and susequent presidents used it, often skirting the law. Unfortunately, it's nothing new. Ironically, Jimmy Carter, of all people, being President at the time of the start of the current IslamoFascist era, used similar methods as those used by GWB.

umm not taking sides. but umm this is gonna get this thread locked. and yeah the last line of your post was unnescessary. but it was your opinion and you have the right to express it. just like they have the right to express thiers.

i never understood the big voice vs text thing. and why 1001 threads are posted about it. you either use it or you don't. and whatever decision you choose it should be respected.

on a side note: those that insist on hearing someones voice, will prolly ask for sex halfway through the conversation.

The skeleton is in the closet

When I first came to SL I was very shy, and very paranoid about revealing anything about my real life. If I had felt pressurised to use voice back then I would probably have left SL all together.

In the nearly three years since then though, I have wised up a lot. I have spoken to many close SL friends on Skype, and enjoyed face-to-face conversations with some via webcam. Those things are lovely ways to get closer to distant friends, and I am glad I have them.

I have only voice in SL a couple of times. The first couple of times, at the Welcome Area, i got very embarassed when a group of American guys started calling me Mary Poppins and 'admiring' my English accent. I know they meant no harm, and laughed at it too, but it was embarassing and put me off talking again for a while.

A couple of nights ago I thought i would try again. Some people were discussing men with female avatars not speaking. As I was being quiet someone commented that I was 'suspicious'. I felt a bit hurt at this (not sure why) and said 'I am definately all woman, lol' Well, someone then said I sounded like a man using a voice-changer. Again, it was said tongue-in-cheek, but I am not a confident person (despite my usual cheeky persona in SL). I felt hurt at the implication that I was trying to trick people.

Although I do feel that voice adds to a friendship many-fold, I prefer to talk to people I already know through typed conversation. Please guys, do remember that many of us girls are really pretty shy.

Elgyfu,

I think you're being a little too sensitive--just like I am to forum trolls

Most of the adult world knows that an English accent is sexy, and a positive attribute...I know a TON of Americans that would love an English accent (me included). Don't let a bunch of immature people turn you off to voice.

Take some pride in who you are, and don't let anybody bring you down. You are a beautiful and unique snowflake.



Give it time, once the voice tidal wave levels out, things will be easier.

If, however, you are somebody that is shy and/or withdrawn in RL, this may cross over to SL voice...but that is to be expected. However, some people are the opposte--they might be shy in RL, and a firecracker in SL.

To each is own.

All I can say is...be yourself.

hehe what part of england if you go to london they complain about each others accents often some are not so easy to understand. I wouldn't worry about it though just kind of joking around. I do remember the last time I had a conversation with a person on the phone from a courthouse in london though she was used to spelling out words due to her accent hehe I didn't even have to ask her to repeat anything was kinda funny. Besides I think most people think every accent accept their own is "sexy" in that its different.

Apparently I have a "sexy english accent" and I'm canadian!?!?!

I don't think it's necessarily ALL over sensitive...

Michael, youre a guy in SL & RL...(right? )

It can be a bit difficult for us females. I have gotten the exact same thing she got. Basically shamed into using voice in a group because I was being accused of being a man. Which Im not... and I proved. But afterwards, I was jus tplain ticked off that I fell for it.

Im the same way, I love talking to distant friends over my pc. And I will load up yahoo voice in a snap for a friend.

I hope you're right. Once the newness of voice fades off... the really rude people or teasers will fade too.

That would be nice to see (*hear*), but the sheer, glittering, evil fun that can be had by abusing voice is the biggest all-day sucker LL has ever handed to a griefer.

There will always be griefers. And there will always be many ways to deal with them.

If griefers are always causing you trouble, I hate to say it, but you're either hanging out with the wrong crowd, in the wrong sandbox, or always in the highest traffic areas.

I rarely have trouble with griefers, and I'm pretty well traveled on the grid due to client base. I'm not saying "live like me and you'll be fine", I'm simply stating from my experience (and all my friends) none of us have griefer problems...only once in a blue moon, and when they occur, it's easily resolved.

Log in with a female ALT, don't voice, and then repost this same message. If you can. Until you do your lack of griefer problems will not have much relevance as a counter to experiences such as that of Elgyfu.

There is nothing for a homophobe greifer to grief a male avie about - do you not understand this?

Hmm the voice thing has barely touched me. I have it disabled so for all I know, I could be laughed at or whatever.

I'm female in both lives.

I don't speak for two reasons. First, I don't have a mic and don't intend to buy one. Second, I'm not a native english speaker and though fluent in written english, I really truly suck at speaking it due to little practice. It's very embarrassing to try and speak and when the other person goes "huh?" the accent gets worse and worse and finally you just want to jump off from someplace high lol. I don't have "issues" with that, don't mope around or anything. Just my reason. Very practical one haha.

About the points in this thread. I wonder that you don't understand that both of the arguing sides are correct. There's never ONE truth, one side. Why argue? Okay, John thinks differently than Mary, so what. Maybe it would be enlightening to actually listen to people with different opinions, get some ideas and a broader view on things. Not trying to insult anyone, just suggesting a possible point of view on things which among other things really saves up alot of nerve cells

EDIT: just occurred to me that since I say it doesn't touch me, it shows like I don't understand or care. I do, I understand possible harassment very well, also the broad cultural experience etc. It has it's positive and negative sides. Very sad that negative usually has more impact then positive thus leaving the impression that there is more bad things then good. I suggest you don't activate your voice at all and just hang around in more quiet places until this hysteria blows over

I think Elgyfu's example is a real good one. Its unfortunate she was accused and suspected.

She was using voice, and yet still bothered by inconsiderate men. I am sure those men did not consider themselves griefers at all.

Argent posted a pretty good point a while back. In games where voice is widespread that he was familair with - there were lots of attempts to "out" people who used voice changers.

This would seem to agree with Elgyfu's experince that people accused her of using a voice changer.

I would think that even the most Pro-Voicers around would at least give her account some considerate thought, rather than a quick dismisal.

Of course theres nothing LL can do about it. Its a social thing. One entirely manufactured by men, I might add.

Basically the fact that there are men who lie about their gender leads other men to be paranoid that the female av he meets is a man.

Therefore women get to be the ones pestered. Lovely.

Yes. I fully agree.

And you know what? I've no freakin clue what a voice changer is or where to get one!

To be fair though it does sort of work both ways.

Thanks to liberation, it's quite rare for a woman to feel she _has_ to play an opposite sex av in order to play a particular role. Some might choose to anyway, but it's just choice. But that's not true for guys. I've met several female avatars who freely admitted (privately) that they were guys but had to play female avs because otherwise what they were doing wouldn't make sense or would make them social pariahs.

1. I don't have a mic. No, really. I never needed one before. Money's tight and I'd rather spend the cash on a few cold beers on a hot day with RL friends. Plus I'm probably the least techy person I know. People say "sound card" and I think Hallmark with one of those cheesey little midi players in it.

2. A chick or not a chick??? Well yeah I am, but the bottom line of it is, if I can't "prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt" that I am, is an issue to you, I probably don't wanna talk to you anyway, so piss off

3. I've already come across some issues of exclusion with it, but I didn't take it personally. Mostly because:

a) It's still new and people who wanna try it out, are
b) I always find ways to amuse myself (youngest of a large family, so I learned that early on...)
c) I don't really take much personally, relatively speaking (or typing, as the case may be)

4 (and final thought): Will I ever try it? Well, maybe. If things improve reality-wise, if I find myself intrigued by it, if I ever figure out how to get that Hallmark card into my computer...

In the meantime, I know how to type and people who are mildly observant will realize after awhile that my non-response to their voice chat means I don't have it installed. hehe

Lol Deandra.

Well basically in my eyes it comes down to this: if you can't have a normal conversation with me without voice, without odd remarks about my gender etc, you're not worth my time anyway.

I wonder why the freak-outs though. Most probably you will never know that the other person is not the same sex as his/her avatar..
Okay, you go to a bar or wherever people go to get sex/flirt/whatever and you pick up a girl (avatar) and do naughty things. 99% chance you will never meet in real life being fully aware of meeting. So what's the difference? You stare at the avatar anyway. It's called roleplay, baby.
I myself am not the virtual relationship kind, I've grown very practical (even emotionwise) during my short but very intense life and prefer to keep things less complicated. But well I have a good cookie imagination and if I was to have some kind of fling with a male avatar from Australia or whatever else place that is very far from me, it wouldn't really matter if the person behind it is really female. I wouldn't know now would I.
Which reminds me, I actually did have a slight flirtation going on over the internet few years ago. We met in a MMORPG where that person had a female character. Things got a bit bizarre between us and then it turned out it's a he who is attracted to me (we talked a lot and the avatars weren't that pretty to just love them lol). I think my point was proven by the fact that I had totally forgotten about this particular incident hahah. Well yeah, it didn't really matter. Maybe I've played AD&D too much? Appreciate good roleplay

Oh goodness, I really have the tendency to write too much in posts which will result in nobody reading them. Which usually allows me to say really odd things in the middle of the post that nobody will know about So find the cookie

No need for all that nonsense.

3 Words - Hot Emo Bois

I found the cookie, now can i eat it too?