Design the new Forums!!

Well, here's my view:

SL Answers is not the replacement for the forums as a whole - it could be regarded as one "Channel" within an entire forum space. A replacement for "Resident Answers", perhaps. A replacement for the entire forums, no.

The rest of the blogs could be regarded as the "Linden-originated" area of a new forum. This area of the forums went dormant long ago, and so it makes sense that the Lindens would put it up first.

What hasn't been put up yet is the "Resident-originated" portion of a new forum (e.g. the content forums, etc.). If these are simply added as channels in the current Blog structure (see the left-side menu of the blogs front page: https://blogs.secondlife.com/index.jspa), I think that would be a problem. [Actually, I think navigation within the current Blogs share that same problem; it is fiendishly difficult to get any view of what the blogspace is discussing in aggregate]. Forum discussions, which accrue knowledge over time (think of the "Builder's Buddy" and "Alpha Texture" threads) require much more visible navigation, ideally tabular. Forums also require thread support for more extended discussions than SL Answers provides, and better search, etc..

We've had acknowledgement from Lexie, Blue, and other Lindens that extended discussions require different formats than those now in SL Answers. I hope we can expect to see additions to support forum-style navigation and long discussions in the beta Blue will be putting up at some point in the future.
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Thanks for the pointers to oracle and E!, Jesse & Suezanne! Both are fairly promising. I could read threads in both forums using FireFox, but Cnet hung in Firefox for me.

I like Oracle's straightforward no-frills screen layout best. It was fast, too. Still not as active as these forums, but much more promising than CNET.

I plan to look more closely at LL's Blogs and SL Answers to see how a new forum structure could fit into the whole. I'm beginning to think it could be pretty easy. If one adds a "Table View" like Oracle's front page, which would list not only our forums but also all the blog channels including SL Answers, instead of cramming all the navigation into the vertical sidebar on the left as LL does now, that would help a lot. One "channel" would be our current 'New Posts'.

Then, once you get into a "Channel" (say, Scripting Tips), again the top display would NOT be the most recent thread posting (which is the way LL's Blogs work now), but a full-screen navigation panel, listing the most recent threads, just like in any forum.

Once you get into an individual thread, the format would presumably be like the current individual Blog Discussions. That layout needs a little work too, but it's a start.
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*wanders off to look at Oracle's forums* Now, that would be closer to what people expect for a forum.

One of the things I am most concerned with is "new user friendliness," when it comes to the Second Life forums. Second Life has a really steep learning curve, so the first thing LL should be considering is a very user friendly forum format. Most users will skip the knowledge base in favor of a forum, for various reasons. Knowledge bases, being kept up by the devs, tend to be out of date. Devs also sometimes tend to be out of touch with how users actually use the product.

A complex forum is likely to scare new users away, rather than encourage them to join our community. They aren't going to SEE the flame wars inside, if they can't find the threads in the first place!

I would like to see these major catagories:

New Resident: This is the place for posting guides geared to new users, answering their questions and maybe listing for places that are newbie friendly.

Resident Discussion: Under this, I'd like to see the Resident Run Websites, Resident Technical Support*, General Discussion, Resident Forum Games, Resident RL Meet Ups and Off Topic.

*The reason for Resident Technical is because honestly, how often to Lindens post in the Tech support threads? And besides, if you really need the support of a Linden, you're better off using Live Chat or a Support Ticket.

Content Creation and all of it's current sub-categories.

Classifieds and it's sub-categories.

And let's give Research and Surveys it's own category. Somehow, I think it will be the least read one, however, which brings us to the last thing I really want in a forum:


Moderation. As I've stated before, I don't care WHO does it, as long as there's a clear set of guidelines and a form for handling disputes in place, as well as removing the in world suspension as a form of punishment. Usually, by the time anyone needs to be suspended from SL itself, they're better off being permanently banned. I mean everything that I could think of as a "suspendable in world forum crime" usually involve breaking the ToS anyways.....

If a post has to be edited by a mod, post WHY. Same goes for being locked. If a thread/post is deleted, send a warning stating WHY it was deleted. Be consistent in it's application!

Blue, you're the only reason I am bothering to post this anymore. I've seen you in action when I was a newb and Second Life was a much smaller realm. If anyone can finally get this off the ground, it'd be you.

Please understand that I am cautious about showing enthusiastic approval of anything LL as a company does any more. The company has made a lot of changes, requesting feedback, but ramming their changes down our throats even after the changes have been vocally refused by the residents. It's built up a lot of mistrust and disgust among the more established users, which is going to pour out any time a Linden graces us with their presence.

It's not change we're afraid of. It's change that doesn't make sense to us that we're afraid of. (otice when SL "banks" that weren't RL licensed were banned, it made sense and the ones that were ticked were the ones running the "banks". But this crud about "Savez teh childrinz!" doesn't make sense. There aren't supposed to be RL kids on the main grid, so we're angry about anything that goes under this heading.

So, all that aside, thank you for sticking it out. Better to hear us complain than to hear the sound of crickets....

God dang it. Blue talked me into coming back into this thread. That's it though. I'm not reading any others.

Here's what I just sent to him in a Notecard:

I totally dissagree that what is needed is more moderation. It never stopped the arguments and just lead to a bunch of locked threads.

A lot of the current or recent threads should have been locked. Just sayin'.

Sure locked.. and someone else or the same person would just start it up again in another thread. I just feel it works better if people can find a way to deal with each other without heavy moderation.

I prefer to judge what's written without being distracted by who wrote it, though that's not always possible.

But the bigger problem is that you wind up seeing the same thing over and over again. Even if it was worthwhile the first time, it's annoying by the tenth. Screen space is too valuable to waste on forum bling.

There's good moderation and there's bad moderation. From what I can tell second-hand, these forums have never really had good moderation.

I've used various sorts of discussion software for a couple of decades - mailing lists, early usenet, VAX Notes, and so on, both technical and non-technical subject matter. There's no question in my mind that well-moderated forums are the best. They allow both the directly relevant content and the casual discussion, while limiting the flamage and redundancy. With superior software (did I say VAX Notes), they're even very usable as a knowledge base and discussion forum.

Highly technical forums can do well without significant moderation. Others survive either by being small (which may or may not mean cliquish), self-selecting to those who like flamage, or, in rare cases, having evolved a self-moderating community that works.

The problem is that moderation takes time, skill, and temperament. It's difficult to find the last two, and it's difficult to justify paying for the first. Well-moderated discussion forums are usually moderated by volunteers, starting out when the forums are small. I don't see it happening here.

I can't really judge that particular image, but any system that doesn't pass contrast checks for accessibility should be DOA. See, for example, http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrast-analyser.html.

FWIW, I just hit:
This is gonna take some patience.

What, are you insane?

/me clutches the animations and gadgets section fiercely.

(using SLX is too much like drinking from a firehose, and it's hard to find what's new. In Classifieds, I can quickly check on the last couple weeks of new stuff).
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Agreed. I don't use SLX at all. I do use the New Products forum extensively.

On an OT section: For me it's a non starter. If the gabbing ain't startin, I'm departin'.

Lulz, I hate both SLX and New Products. I shop nearly exclusively inworld. Maybe I'm a luddite at heart.

Agreed. I like the New Products forums and I vastly prefer the format here, with subcatagories, to the nearly useless 'everybody pile into one subforum' format at xstreet. I browse the new products listings here all the time, and I think it is a particularly useful tool for newer players both for finding places to shop and for free promotion of a new venture. Granted, I post listings for my products there, but I am really speaking as a shopper and someone who likes to find new places to shop, or see what forum friends are doing more than as a merchant. Also, if these subforums aren't present I fear there will be a flood of vaguely disguised product announcements popping up in other places all the time.

Another category idea I'll throw out there is a something for SL business discussion/project development. The business thread that has been running here for nearly a year shows there is some interest, as do all the 'I'm new and I want to know how to start an "X" type of business' threads that get started. Running a business is something a great many people in SL do and enjoy either purely for fun or for profit (or a combination of both). It would be nice to have a place to talk about that, and it is easy for threads started with that in mind to look like shameless self promotion in a general forum, but not really fit into a purely building or scripting or animations sub forum. Just an idea.

I tend to often pop in to the New Products area and it would be a shame to see it go when the forums are re arranged.

I will make sure the new forums at SLapt.me have all the features and forums missing here

I use them both.

xstreetsl is the only way I can shop at work.

The posts in the New Products forum come up with New Posts, so if they catch my eye I go look.

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Bad girl, you should be working at work!!

Unless you work for the Government.

Didn't you get the memo? The Corporation *is* the new government

Actually it's the other way around up here. The Government is now the Corporation.

i wonder how well a government motors car or truck would sell..
if you really think about where it would be coming from..is there anything about it at all you would not worry about?
let alone the price and taxes alone

Damn you *shakes fist* always one step ahead! Curses!

well prisoners could expand their skillset beyond simple license plates. theres a vast source of free labour available for government motors.

I'm glad I drive a Ford


They are working on a deal for if you'll trade in your "Gas Guzzler" they'll give a $4,500 credit if you buy one of the new overpriced golf carts they'll be trying to force us all into.