Second Life Community Convention 2006: SAN FRANCISCO!
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MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
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02-01-2006 08:33
From: Cristiano Midnight Saying that "oh well you can't please everyone" is not a great reason to not try to make the event as accessible as possible to more than just one group of people. That is not "finding something else to be upset about", it is simply wishing it had taken into account the needs of everyone, not just people in the Bay Area. I agree with you on that point. When I said that though, it was after he had explained the reasons why SF location was chosen this year and that next year this will be more regional. However, a vote by the community would have been a nice gesture  MJ
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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02-01-2006 08:34
From: Eboni Khan Do you have the credit card billing address for every SL resident neatly in a database with zipcodes cross referenced with the US Postal Service and Google Earth? How in the hell did you gather this information? I believe he used the latest interrogation techniques, including rubber hoses, pliers and trained dolphins with friggin laser beams.
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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02-01-2006 08:34
From: Eboni Khan Do you have the credit card billing address for every SL resident neatly in a database with zipcodes cross referenced with the US Postal Service and Google Earth? How in the hell did you gather this information? I do, and he's right.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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02-01-2006 08:35
From: Taco Rubio I do, and he's right. If that is so, where do I live, huh, huh?!
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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02-01-2006 08:39
From: Taco Rubio I do, and he's right. I would like to see demographics please.
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Newfie Pendragon
Crusty and proud of it
Join date: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,025
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02-01-2006 08:41
From: FlipperPA Peregrine This was discussed, but how would you propose doing a vote? The forums is an extreme subset of the community. There's no way in world to reach a sizable demographic to be able to take a reasonable vote. If someone wants to do a convention in another city - go ahead! The fact is the organization team is going to be spending the most time working on the convention, and are the only people who are guaranteed to be in attendence. When sites were suggested last year, the bias was that everyone chose their back yard. If the SL community has no active role in deciding the location, then it's not an SL Community Convention, it's an SL Limited-Restricted-Committee Convention. Even if the forums might be too small a sample in order to represent the community, there's other ways to get that info. Public requests for suggestions, a request dispensor at the Welcome Area (which I'd bet the Lindens would support), or even one at each of the infohubs. All of these options would give the SL community at large the opportunity to express their choice on preference. From: someone San Francisco is the obvious location: Linden Lab is there. There are more SL residents from the bay area than any other area.
Regards,
-Flip That is exactly why San Francisco is the obvious NON location. It is already well served with SL-related events, trips, conventions, etc; it is and already has been a serious case of "been there, done that". The people who are within distance of SanFran has already had numerous occasions to be involved with SL-related events, and will likely have many more in the future. It's a no-brainer to see that there would greater service to the SL community to host it in a location where those who have not had that chance could have a possibility of going. But then again....I'm getting a strong feeling the only 'community' in this 'community convention' is the organizing committee. - Newfie
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2006 08:45
From: Eboni Khan I would like to see demographics please. Demographics of SL users is not the only factor affecting the choice. I'd like to also point out that *anywhere* in North America is inconvenient for SLrs on other continents. Next year I'll be lobbying for another city.
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2006 08:46
From: Newfie Pendragon But then again....I'm getting a strong feeling the only 'community' in this 'community convention' is the organizing committee. - Newfie
You do realize we're all on the East Coast, right?
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Newfie Pendragon
Crusty and proud of it
Join date: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,025
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02-01-2006 08:48
From: Hiro Pendragon You do realize we're all on the East Coast, right? Who are 'we'? I know I'm on the east coast; I know (think) you're on the east coast. Let's see, that's 2 people. Two people dont make an SL community. - Newfie
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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02-01-2006 08:55
Jeez..these folks are taking it upon themselves to do ALOT of work and help bring the RL folks behind SL avatars together for a great time, and they get slammed constantly for it? Chill out folks!
The last convention was ON THE EAST COAST, so what is unfair about this one being on the West Coast?? It makes sense to me and seems pretty damn fair. I didn't whine about last year's being on the East Coast. I just decided whether I could make it or not.
If you folks have a problem with the location selected, perhaps you should organize your own convention?
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David Lamoreaux
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2006 08:58
From: Newfie Pendragon Who are 'we'?
I know I'm on the east coast; I know (think) you're on the east coast.
Let's see, that's 2 people. Two people dont make an SL community.
- Newfie "We" as in the "organizers" that you quoted. I'm across the river from NYC, Jerry Paffendorf is in Brooklyn, Flip and Jenn are in Philly, Vala is in Maryland. As I stated earlier, I was torn in the location as well - and as Flip stated, it stinks that there's no magic location in RL that's next door to everyone - but that's an aspect of RL that SL doesn't have to deal with. (I may add, in an unrelated note, that we'll probably take on double or triple the number of organizers this year just to handle the volume of people and not spend every waking free hour for 2 months working on the con.)
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Newfie Pendragon
Crusty and proud of it
Join date: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,025
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02-01-2006 09:00
From: David Valentino Jeez..these folks are taking it upon themselves to do ALOT of work and help bring the RL folks behind SL avatars together for a great time, and they get slammed constantly for it? Chill out folks!
The last convention was ON THE EAST COAST, so what is unfair about this one being on the West Coast?? It makes sense to me and seems pretty damn fair. I didn't whine about last year's being on the East Coast. I just decided whether I could make it or not. Like has been repeatedly said, San Fran has been done over and over. There's more to the world than NYC and SanFran. And I'm pretty sure there's quite a few SLers out there in that 'more to the world' category. From: someone If you folks have a problem with the location selected, perhaps you should organize your own convention? It's amazing how often people use the 'if you dont like it, go do your own' cop-out line. I have a line for you. It's 'if you wanna call it a community convention, then involve the community. Otherwise call it the bunch-of-individuals-making-arbitratory-choices-without-basic-consideration convention'. Dont like how I worded that? Well then start your own long-winded name for a convention. - Newfie
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milady Guillaume
Shhhh, I'm researching!
Join date: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 696
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02-01-2006 09:02
David, that's not the point. The point is, if a group of people say that they are representing the community then do so with validity. If Linden Lab looks to this group as "represnting the community" that gives what they do and what they say some credibility. Well, I'm sorry, but selecting a city for the aforementioned reasons still isn't valid. You did not ask the community members what they would like to see happen. No official polls were taken, no unofficial polls were taken, and certainly no straw polls were taken. Is this another prime example of FIC at work?
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GoldieFawn Fielding
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 114
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Hmmm Call me small town but...I like that City choice better.
02-01-2006 09:02
Correct me if I am wrong about my vision of San Fransico. I havent gotten out much. Giggles!
I am not as leary about taking a trip to San Fransico. The thought of seeing that city seems more fascinating and "less crime". My vision is only that I may be shocked by same sex ppl holding hands etc. Oh and street cars. hehe if there are any there still. I vision townhouse style homes, on streets created on rolling hills.
[However, Since I live in a small town (grew up with population of 1,900 ppl) of farmers and now a new mall on the outskirts. I have to admit the new mall built on a blueberry field near our towns exit has brought in some strange folk. Psst, I have sat on a bench to watch these new types (to me) of ppl that I never knew existed. hehhe.]
So for me, New York seemed scarey to me and San Fransico doesnt.
GoldieFawn
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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02-01-2006 09:03
From: Hiro Pendragon I'd like to also point out that *anywhere* in North America is inconvenient for SLrs on other continents.
This is 2006, there are planes, it is just as easy to fly from NYC to LA as it is from London to LA. It is not like people have to get on the Titanic and take 2 weeks to cross over and then hit an iceburg and die in the big pond. Good Grief.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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02-01-2006 09:03
From: David Valentino Jeez..these folks are taking it upon themselves to do ALOT of work and help bring the RL folks behind SL avatars together for a great time, and they get slammed constantly for it? Chill out folks!
The last convention was ON THE EAST COAST, so what is unfair about this one being on the West Coast?? It makes sense to me and seems pretty damn fair. I didn't whine about last year's being on the East Coast. I just decided whether I could make it or not.
If you folks have a problem with the location selected, perhaps you should organize your own convention? David, Oh good lord - asking why a more central location could not be chosen is hardly slamming them. My god, can no one ever ask a question or cricitize? Considering dates have not even been set yet, asking if it could be more centrally located for all people in the US is hardly slamming them. If the attitude is "if you don't like it, form your own convention" instead of taking input from the very community that this damn thing is supposed to represent, then I would gladly not go to it. They are not saints, they are event organizers. No one is crticizing them for their good deeds, simply discussing why certain choices were made.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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02-01-2006 09:08
From: Hiro Pendragon Demographics of SL users is not the only factor affecting the choice.
Flipper posted like 90% of SL residents live in then San Fran area, numbers please? Just don't pull numbers out your ass and not expect people to ask questions. I believe Flipper told me sometihng like that yesterday. Since he seems to have access to these demographic numbers the rest of us don't, he could share. I thought we were a community? Also why are you even posting about a convention, when you don't even have a date when it will be held? 
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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02-01-2006 09:12
From: Hiro Pendragon You do realize we're all on the East Coast, right? Ayup and it was conveniently in NYC last year. I'm not going to raise a huge dissent here but I kind of agree with the previous dissenters. 
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2006 09:17
From: Eboni Khan numbers please? Here's a resource: http://www.frappr.com/secondlife
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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02-01-2006 09:23
LMAO, that's a very "thorough" source Hiro!
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2006 09:33
From: Lizbeth Marlowe LMAO, that's a very "thorough" source Hiro! I didn't say it was. It's just an interesting sampling.
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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02-01-2006 09:36
From: Newfie Pendragon If the SL community has no active role in deciding the location, then it's not an SL Community Convention, it's an SL Limited-Restricted-Committee Convention. Even if the forums might be too small a sample in order to represent the community, there's other ways to get that info. Public requests for suggestions, a request dispensor at the Welcome Area (which I'd bet the Lindens would support), or even one at each of the infohubs. All of these options would give the SL community at large the opportunity to express their choice on preference. I don't see how you would ever gather the opinion of the entire SL community, but perhaps you know a trick to do that? And I would think it logical that those doing the actual organizing and planning should have a say in where, when and how, since they are the ones doing all the work on it. It's not like they are choosing Iraq or someplace. It's a beautiful city within the U.S., that is also the location of Linden Labs and offers tourists plenty to do. From: someone That is exactly why San Francisco is the obvious NON location. It is already well served with SL-related events, trips, conventions, etc; it is and already has been a serious case of "been there, done that". The people who are within distance of SanFran has already had numerous occasions to be involved with SL-related events, and will likely have many more in the future. It's a no-brainer to see that there would greater service to the SL community to host it in a location where those who have not had that chance could have a possibility of going. Now it sounds as if you are saying a very small portion of the Second Life residents are "the community" because you can bet 99% of us have never "been there and done that" with SL-related events in San Fransisco. I believe, due to modern transportation, that just about everybody can travel to SF if they have the time, money and/or inclination, just like any other city within the U.S. Some will live closer, and some further. From: someone But then again....I'm getting a strong feeling the only 'community' in this 'community convention' is the organizing committee.
- Newfie I'm getting a strong feeling that the people working to organize it for the community made a logical choice, and that there is no real way to get the entire SL's population to decide on any one location. As stated previously, S.F. seems like a good choice for many reasons. Hell, I'd rather have it in my home town, but I don't expect others to want it there. I'd rather go to Vegas for it, but I don't expect others to want that either. But I do like that they are having it on the West Coast this year, since it was on the east Coast last year.
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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02-01-2006 09:39
From: Eboni Khan Flipper posted like 90% of SL residents live in then San Fran area, numbers please? Just don't pull numbers out your ass and not expect people to ask questions. I believe Flipper told me sometihng like that yesterday. Since he seems to have access to these demographic numbers the rest of us don't, he could share. I thought we were a community? I'm wondering if Flipper's statement that "there are more residents from the bay area than any other major metropolitan location" includes LL employees (and their alts). Remove that faction and where does SF stand amongst the user base?
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
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02-01-2006 09:39
From: milady Guillaume David, that's not the point. The point is, if a group of people say that they are representing the community then do so with validity. If Linden Lab looks to this group as "represnting the community" that gives what they do and what they say some credibility. Well, I'm sorry, but selecting a city for the aforementioned reasons still isn't valid. You did not ask the community members what they would like to see happen. No official polls were taken, no unofficial polls were taken, and certainly no straw polls were taken. Is this another prime example of FIC at work? The forums are not a good representation of the community milady. It's a very small and verbal minority. I would think that S.F. being on the West Coast, when last years convention was on the East Coast IS a valid reason. And since Linden Labs is located in S.F., and we haven't all had a chance to go hang out there, that it makes even more sense. Polls weren't taken on the location last year either....
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David Lamoreaux
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
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02-01-2006 09:41
From: Cristiano Midnight David,
Oh good lord - asking why a more central location could not be chosen is hardly slamming them. My god, can no one ever ask a question or cricitize? Considering dates have not even been set yet, asking if it could be more centrally located for all people in the US is hardly slamming them. If the attitude is "if you don't like it, form your own convention" instead of taking input from the very community that this damn thing is supposed to represent, then I would gladly not go to it. They are not saints, they are event organizers. No one is crticizing them for their good deeds, simply discussing why certain choices were made. Well Cris, I'd have to disagree. I've seen some clear criticism going on. And yes, I am of the attitude that if this is being organized by non-Linden Lab employees, then they certainly have the right to pick the city, and that the city they picked makes sense for the reasons already stated.
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
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