Age verification

Re-read the threat, the child online protection act is over. Nobody can get sued for not putting a "WARNING: ADULT MATERIAL" splash page infront of their porn site anymore.

Well, yeah, they can get sued, but it'll just get dismissed.

as Amoraq pointed out, theres no *Real* reason for this other then a quick profit off "free" accounts, scaring people into upgrading to premium (Which I did when I read the blog post), and stopping grievers from making a thousand throw-away accounts.

Uhm, nicely copy/pasted, but LL are not a UK company, they are in the US and thus are governed by US law, which doesn't believe in data protection, because the FBI enjoys stalking people.

The UK data-protection (and related) acts only apply to transactions to other countries if the transactions are performed by a UK data-handler. If you're submitting you're own information then the data-protection act does not apply.
Only real UK laws that can be applied are if the data is used to commit some kind of crime against a UK citizen.

Even so; as I said (and as LL said) they don't keep the data, they use it once to verify your age then destroy it.

The British government doesn't require dodgy data protection laws to stalk its citizens; they just stalk us with cameras instead.
That's right. The worst they (at the EU level) can do is advise us not to share sensitive data with the US because it is not afforded the good treatment we have come to expect at home. In their opinion.

According to that Telegraph article I cited in a couple of posts, Integrity have a data processing centre here in Blighty, so concerns about data export to the US might not be such a concern because they would fall under UK jurisdiction.

Do you believe that? Do you believe the data won't be kept, that it will (just) be used once to verify age? Do you believe it will then be destroyed? Do you believe it won't be compromised in any way? Basically, do you believe what Linden Labs tells you?

Perhaps we should base our decision on LL's history of keeping their word, or of doing what they said they would do and not doing what they said they wouldn't do. That's really the only fair way to make a decision isn't it?

I cant believe i read that whole UK data crap post just to find out it had no point or bearing on anything we are discussing here. Even if LL does fall under it somehow when they put servers up in Europe, what they are asking for is still not breaking any of those laws... so wtf?


Also, when people keep talking about COPA and federal laws. Breaking federal laws is nothing to do with lawsuits as they are a criminal matter. You can break no federal laws and still be sued and lose over a civil action.

heres a thing for ya.....yes LL is based in the usa BUT they empploy people from the uk meaning they now fall under uk law as well....with each employee they (lindenlabs) are now agreeing to that countrys laws and since they are now international company they have to abide with those laws

in short there breaking the euro law of data protection

Whilst the blog says tha LL will not keep the data, they will merely pass it onto a third party company for verification, the blog does not say that the third party (apparently another private company based in California) will not keep the data.

What that third party does with the data is what people are concerned about.

Submitting credit card information is age verification enough. I will not submit information such as my SSN to Linden Labs or any third party. If kids get on to SL it's their parent's goddamned fault for not montoring what their children do on the internet.

nope.

linden lab would only be bound by the Data Protection Act in the UK if they collected and stored (ie. processed) user data within our jurisdiction. they don't do that.

it has nothing whatsoever to do with whether LL has a presence here; only if they process our personal data here (for which they would require a license), and they don't do that.

this point is irrelevant in relation to age/identity verification anyway, because Integrity are responsible for that data transaction, they do have a base here, and being up Tony Blair's arse because they desperately want to help secure an e-voting system for the UK, I'm sure they know exactly what they're doing with regards Data Protection in this country. They have a data centre here so they must be licensed to process it.

More on the Data Protection and Freedom of Information Acts here, if anybody cares.

nope, you do not give LL any data what-so-ever. You are only giving your data to a 3rd party, which never gives any of that data back to LL. The 3rd party has to follow laws in each country they are in, which is a bunch. The blog states that neither LL nor the 3rd party will keep any of the data, it will only be used to verify.

Wow... thanks for answering the question. Oh, wait...

There has been calls for age verification for months and months. Now everyone's saying that there is enough protection, enough verification. Which is it?

As I said, I'm just looking for alternatives to what they've proposed.

Well thats if they can followup on the rule breakers in those outside the usa countries.

Many people called for "no payment info" accounts to be blocked, rather than age verification.

I never called for either, and I wont support this move. If they must have age verification, then payment info should be enough. Personally, I don't see age verification as being all that important. So what, a teenager may see some cartoon sex, it's not like most teenagers haven't seen RL porn. If they're not yet teenagers, they'll most likely be ARd the minute they type anything.

typical.. Anyway, have you considered that the call for age verification was aimed at accounts with "no payment info on file" etc. i.e. accounts that haven't been near current adequate verification? And thank you for your accurate sumary - oh yes, everyone is definitely saying there's enough protection/verification. Oh no, wait - some say there isn't, and a lot say there are already means for that verification so no further means is needed - just use was is actually already built into the system.

Besides, it makes no sense to try to protect children from adult content from within a place that is obviously aimed at adults. That's just like inviting them into a porn theatre and telling them to keep their eyes closed. No teen can in any way be in doubt that they enter a place aimed for adults, btw. What is planned now is like screening at the front gate, only letting in adults, screening at the seats only letting adults seat, and when they sit, they are told "well, we don't think you're old enough to be here, but if you keep this blindfold on you can stay".

Its stupid to block kids from seeing any of this stuff. Like they haven't seen it on the net, on tv, in video games....etc. How stupid. For once a fun game and some idiots decide to change it because they are worried about kids that already see the stuff.

And as for verifying.... any kid can do that just like they did the credit cards! So whats the point? They can access their parents SS numbers, ids..etc. The only people that are really losing out are us.

While I pay a fee to be verified, some kid shows his parents info and uses his parents CC to pay! Wow, I lose, he doesn't.

Reguardind Personal Data.

Use of credit card information to verify age is the norm in the buisness, anything else is considered a security risk and is discouraged. If you are asked for this kind of information by a company do not use that company, their are always others. In most circumstances their is no need for a company to require you to provide this kind of information.
Once your details have been sent over the net you have no control over that information. IF your user data is then used fraudently you are responsible and can expect to be liable for the debt and may in most cases face criminal prosicution.

I have been working in the computer industry for over 25 years now and advise ppl NOT to divulge personal data to anybody but a TRUSTED company subject to stringent data protection laws, and only then by use of a secured connection. A un-named third party is not a trusted company and you will have no legal recourse if said data is misused.


Reguarding Adult Content and Minors.

Linden Labs are already protected from law suits by the ToS, you MUST be 18 or over to have an account.

If a person breaks into your home/ place of buiness and steals a gun from a locked case are you criminaly liable ?
Was locking your front door not "reasonable steps" to ensure that no one could access that weapon ?
Of course it was.

The real crime is being commited by the minor and by default the responsible adult, not you or in this case Linden Labs. The blame lies soely with the parents of the offender for not adaqietly supervising said minor.

A case could be put that the parents were guilty of criminal neglect for not adiquietly supervising their offspring. And in most western countries child services would be called to investigate such a case of neglect.

Further more LL have a good prima facia case for sueing the parents of ANY under 18 yo whom they catch accessing their service, as that in itself constitutes fraud against LL and their associates. It is a breach of terms of service and anybody sueing LL would be liable for the full costs of such actions. If you as a parent allow your children to access SL then you are liable not LL, you are the one who faces crippling finacial costs not to mention having your kids removed by the athorities. It is the resonsiblity of parents to ensure the wellbeing of their own children not socity at large. The "Lets Protect the Kiddies" brigade should stfu and take responsibility for the protection of their own chilren, we (society) are not responsible for your neglect, but we will hold you accountable for it.

I joined Second Life because it was a platform for adults....
I bought land in a mature sim, because I wanted a mature environment...

Now you suggest that I have to give enough data about myself to an as yet unnamed "third party" to have my identity stolen?...

And why do I have to do this?...It seems I have to do this, because Linden Labs has not been successful in keeping minors out of the system?

Now it appears as if it is going to cost ME more money to REAFFIRM my age...(you have my credit card number, that is sufficient for age verification with most internet companies) because you have failed in keeping minors out of the system?...why are residents absorbing the risk to their financial wellbeing and the cost for Linden Lab's failure?

To my way of thinking, this whole issue is about accountability...children and their parents should be accountable for children getting into an adult game....Linden labs should be accountable for allowing children into the game...Linden Labs should be accountable for the cost of any age verification costs for their game access...

Residents should NOT be accountable, morally or financially, for the failure of others...

Answer these questions with reasonable answers, and I will consider it...

Temporal Mitra

Well if you crybabies end up leaving SL, don't worry I'm sure someone will be there to pick up your land real cheap.

Thats right, we won't miss you. Though we will say to mind the door so it doesn't hit you in the ever so sensitive posteriors on your way out the door. We don't want your butt-prints on our doors.

not any more it isn't. VISA explicitly prohibits merchants from verifying age by use of its credit card.

straight from the horse's mouth (visa.com):

VISA is not above Danish law

Linden Lab is bound by US law.

Makes no difference - Danish VISA holders ARE 18+ years old. Ergo, Danish VISA holders are verified 18+ years old

And Europe isnt bound to the unsecure Laws of the States

And this Company is new to me, and there nowhere a info who licenced them to be secure like (e-trust, verisign or partners)...so for me the company is insecure.
as e-gov and voting is.

That's like a barmaid saying under-18s are not allowed to purchase alcohol in my country, so when a young man walked into my pub pissed as fart with a can of Red Stripe in each hand, ergo, "he must be 18," so I served him.

It's as simple as this: Visa (yes, even in Europe) chooses not to allow its card to be used for age verification purposes. Even Danish law cannot force Visa to become an age verification service (AVS) which guarantees users of its card are over eighteen years old. Danish law (as does British law) simply compels credit card issuers to take all steps necessary to ensure under-18s can't successfully apply for its products (as with any other credit issuing organisation).

Uh, is that all you have? Name calling, with no useful data, info, or comments to offer?

Let me tell you, that's my land, bought and paid for. The door that will hit me in the butt on the way out I created. Who's this 'we' you talk of when you say 'our doors'.? I'm a part of that we, everyone here is.

That you have no concern for your personal info being put out there, is simply a false sense of security on your part. Those who are rightfully concerned for their security are expressing their outrage over personal data mining. If you want to give up your personal info, that's your right, but don't insult those who are using their brains to think about the possible outcomes of this.

One thing I keep thinking is that with all the big business coming into SL, of course LL is oging to know tow to their requests. It is they who don't want to be seen associating with child sex in SL. It is they who would put the pressure on SL. Before there were so many big businesses coming into SL, LL did not respond to complaints of child sex, did they?

OH, but now, even adult nudity is going to be censored. All of a sudden like. Even though we all know minors have been around all along. Including LL. I think it's simply the big businesses in SL that have made LL change their minds. Money talks. The residents, the folks who invested time and money into SL, and brought it to where it is now, will be shat upon to get at that big business money.

It's as simple as that, folks. Nothing we say or do will change the fact that LL will risk our security grasping at the big money being dangled in front of them. All the happy, creative ideals that SL started with are in the toilet and the lever has already been pushed.