Age verification

It's perfectly clear to me - they don't do age verification.

Isn't that what we're talking about?



LL has explicitly said that neither company will keep your personal info.

Meade

It took me about 10days to get my PayPal account verified in order to access SL. So they could ensure I was who I said I was, that I wasn't a money-launderer, and that I was over 18. Do you actually read the posts, or just negate them at a whim?

so the grid is for adults only, but ll devides the adults in people who like datamining and people who don´t like it. thats all they do...
or the other way around: ll allows minors to enter the grid, by saying people who don´t use datamining can be minors, but thats ok as long as we block them from "adult" areas...

please make clear what you want here. a 2 class society or minors on the grid? or both?

sounds stupid

This is what bothers me. I've been a premium member since shortly after I joined SL. When I joined, LL was happy enough to accept my credit card as proof I am an adult. It's not a credit card actually but a Visa Debit Card issued by my bank. Yes, I know by the number they have no way to know that, however, it was good enough to verify I was old enough to be on this grid.

NOW LL says my credit card isn't good enough. It's good enough for you to keep charging me every 3 months. It's good enough for you to slap a $9.95 fee to if I downgrade my account. My credit card is no longer good enough to verify my age, but the fees charged to it for my premium account and linden purchases is good enough. FTS!

My house was broken into a couple years ago and I've had to go through hell and back to get information added to this account and that account to be flagged whenever my social security number is pulled in case of identity theft. What assurance do I have as a consumer that my information is NOT going to be stored somewhere so that it may be stolen yet again?

I know LL doesn't give a crap about what I as a player think. I have never seen or heard of another online gaming site forcing members to pay further out of pocket in order to enjoy ALL aspects of the game. I am a parent! IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE MY CHILDREN ACCESS ONLY WHAT I DEEM APPROPRIATE. I am not a child. I do not enjoy having my activities "policed" on SL. And basically that is what I feel is happening here!!!

And some of us don't believe them !

The only thing that the proposed authentication checks (just once) is that a specified over-18 person actually exists.

There is no check that this is the person sitting at the computer.

Even this limited check is only possible (in the claimed two minutes, or even at all) for the very few countries with suitable accessible online databases. What will they do with a Moroccan driving licence number ?

This proposal is doubly ludicrous.
Firstly, they will often be checking the identity of someone who will never log on to SL.
Secondly, if even this proves impossible for say 20% of non-US residents, it makes a nonsense of the whole "exclude minors" justification.

In my opinion a credit card is good enough, and these proposals put us at risk for no actual gain whatever.

Except a bit of cosmetic protection from litigation for SL.

unfortunately VISA says it's not.

http://usa.visa.com/merchants/new_acceptance/merchant_responsibility.html

1. Merchants should be aware that possession of a Visa card or submission of Visa account information does not signify that the cardholder is of legal age to purchase age-restricted products.
   
2. The issuance of Visa cards is not restricted to individuals over 18 years of age.
   

I think this pount is what's getting a lot of people confused, if not angry.

Having a CC on file means that you're payment-verified, not age-verified. I don't think LL has ever said that having a CC on file is 'proof' that you're 18+..

Great - problem solved and a new business opportunity is had - sell your friends' identities for access codes - I wonder how many L$ would a valid access code be worth?

I would like to thank everyone who has commented here for your input. We'll continue to read and consider your feedback.

I've done some looking into Integrity's parent company, Aristotle, and I will NOT be giving those people my personal data.

So I can see that in the future, I, a very mature woman, will be restricted in where I can go in SL. So be it, treat me like shit. I'll stop paying y'all, keep a freebie acct, and just hang out with my friends and chat. I'll cease shopping and going out places, because quite frankly, I don't need to be insulted if I run into a place that I will be restricted from entering. And you know what's the real kick? I have never, and never will, have SL sex. I'm just not into it. However, that's by my CHOICE. Now you will take that choice away from me and make it yourself, I suppose. Hummmmm....so much for respect for your customers.

Now you are giving me the option of handing over my personal data, or being flagged as an illegal minor. And if I hand over my personal data, I may well be flagged as a purveyor of porn.

I think y'all screwed the pooch on this one. I've talked to other residents who feel the same way. I've brought in good paying members, and they too will drop their paying accounts if this goes into effect. It's unacceptable to ask for this much personal data, to be handed over to an unsavory company, who simply SAY they will not keep, or use our data in any other way. I don't believe it for one minute. They are in the business of collecting info and selling it to politicians and PACs. They are in the hands of Rupert Murdoch, for cripes sake. No way, no how, am I letting them have any more info on me than I can help.

Anyone who does this, is naive beyond hope in my opinion. How sad that you would risk sacrificing our security like this. I would have thought you lot would have been bright enough to figure out a better idea than this slapshod one. Shame on you.

Consider this feedback. You will lose my business before you or any company you hire gets any part of my SSN.

I understand the concerns you're all raising about limited access within SL and about privacy violations. However, and it's a BIG however, we cannot risk the entire service because we aren't willing to make every effort to ensure minors are not involved in inappropriate activity or made vulnerable to predators.

As Walker pointed out, even Visa will tell you that credit cards don't do an adequate job of proving that the holder is over 18. Add to that the fact that many of our SL international members don't have access to or use credit cards and we're faced with the need to find something better.

I also want to stress that people who are not age verified will only be restricted from Teen Second Life and from parcels or islands that have been flagged as having adult content, not from regions designated M.

We will not sign a contract with any vendor who does not respect and agree to our privacy rules. All that the vendor in this case will be doing is saying whether there is a match between the information you provide and public records.

We haven't posted pricing information because we're still debating what we think the policy should be. Some would say that basic account holders should pay a higher price than premium because 1) they have no other history with us and are therefore a higher risk and 2) they don't pay for other aspects of the service. Conversely, others would say the price should be lower to incent them (basics) to give up some of their anonymity. What do you think?

First I have a question - Will the Adult Flag be a different flag than the current Mature Flag? for Mature Parcels.

Not the land designation but the Mature Flag. In the last search change Policy was changed allowing people who didnt check that to show up on PG searches in "Places"

You(meaning you and Dan) talk like the Adult flag will be new - but its not clear becuase never once have you mentioned this current Mature Flag.



As two whether Basics should pay more - the tiny fee of 1L-10L seems so small It doesnt matter if its a fee at all.

I dont see where charging Basics 20L for example would really make enough of a difference to justify the two tiered system.

Unless this service is COSTING you something - then perhaps basic accounts could pay that cost, which I assume is a lot more than 10L.

Premiums since they pay money in - I assume you think you will take the price out of that money.

Still me personally - The cost is really a neglible part of the whole plan. Im really on the fence about it.

I see a reason for Age Verification. I realize it will take more information than before. But I still think older verified accoutns should be grandfathered in it just seems more right.

Ill definitely be verifying of course since I participate in adult activities by any definition.

I hope this doesnt cost LL a lot of business. Thats a big concern, I really think people wanted a Payment Info based Verification, and werent prepared for this.

robin,
why can´t you offer different companys for the process? integrity is just a joke, and i promise that a big part of your european customers will NOT use this service. you know, privacy is a bit more important to people over here, than maybe in the us. and saying that we just should trust them (because you do) doesn´t change it a bit...

what i still don´t get is why you still want to allow unverifyed residents to enter the grid since it´s for adults only. as cate stated above: you only devide the community by doing this...

Currently every region has a rating: PG or M. On the mainland the rating is pre-determined; on estates the estate owner can set it to PG or M.

The parcel flag we're talking about will be available on M regions (island or mainland) only. It will mean that there is adult content on that parcel/region that is clearly inappropriate for non-adults. This content is that which is overtly, graphically, or explicitly sexual in nature or intensely violent. Obviously, there should be no content on PG regions that fits this description. But even on M regions this content is extreme, and therefore needs to be flagged.

If you are not verified you will not be able to enter parcels or islands that are flagged as having adult content.

For more information on our thinking about costs, please see this post.

And I think this is an excellent move, thank you!

L$10 is pennies and far less than what it will cost LL to pay the processing company to verify, as far as basics go, L$10 isn't hard to come by in SL and basics can buy $L just like anyone else.

This is not the issue for most of us. We object to to providing personal information about ourselves to you or anybody not of our chosing. The current system is more than asufficent to prove age.

Ok, i have no passport, i have no driver license. Can i do this "verification" from Europe, Hungary? Yes, or no?

Until anyone can show me how HahaImReally16 Jones will be prevented from using camera controls to bypass boundary fences, THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT, and very very high risk for LL to start taking on the legal responsibility for safeguarding even ONE person's private identity, dont you think?

Does this means the current Mature Flag will remain as is and there will be a new Adult Flag - Thus Two flags?

Or the current Mature Content Flag will be replaced by an Adult content flag?

Or the current Mature flag IS the Adult Flag?


Im concerned this Adult Flag change will remove the Search Changes that were made just last update - Since it made the Mature flag needed to toggle your mature land as Safe for PG Places search.

This flag already seems to exist on mature parcels. Which was the point Colette was making

My concerns are:

How will you verify in Europe, when some of the countries make it clear you can only really do it via their national identity verification systems?

I don't have any issues with verifying, I have every intention to do so. I just want to be sure I actually CAN do so, in the country where I reside. As I am not a citizen, it will likely be harder to match my non-national passport against my address through a purely online system, especially given that my passport got replaced a short time ago.

Another issue I have is with the "adult content" guidelines. It's overtly, graphically and explicitly vague. Skin sellers still have no clear answers till we get AR'ed by the righteous or the vindictive. :/

well kind of worse - if the current flag is the Adult flag - then If your business is on the "Places" lisitng your Mature parcel if unflagged will have to abide by PG guidelines - which is the new Search Rule.

Additionally this will force all skin sellers , etc with nudity to "flag adult" since if they DONT they wont meet PG guidelines.

But they do meet the middle of the road -

in order to have 3 levels of content in one parcel type M - you need 2 flags.

protecting children from 'adult' content is a very sound idea. However paying the lindens more money so I can give my personal details out to an undisclosed foreign 3rd party, so in the event that they loose or get hacked, my personal details end up in the hands of people who use it for less than honest reasons, and I'll have zero% chance of reclaiming any lost finance, is so not going to happen.

lol C- for terrible gramma but you get get where I'm comming from.

This is about you trying to protect your own behinds from being sued by some mother who catches their child in a sex sim on YOUR grid, not about protecting children.

I'm guessing your lawer told you the EULA wasn't enough protection.

Summary :
A) we want to see the contract between LL and Aristotle.
B) we hope that LL is fighting government efforts to erode our digital privacy.

In particular, we want to make sure :

1) That the penalties for Aristotle selling on any part of our information are so stiff that they won't even consider it because they worry about the huge penalties of getting caught.

2) That there is nobody at Aristotle who is in a position to know both our RL details and the details of our SL accounts. Were someone in that position, it would be entirely plausible to suggest that people with political connections to Aristotle could dig up information about someone's SL activities from their RL information, and thus, do a great deal of damage to them, especially if they are a public figure.

3) That the system is really necessary. Right now, it looks like LL is being bullied into implementing this identity verification system by big government(s). Frankly, I hope that LL is fighting back and attempting to resist identify verification. In the digital age, the only way to preserve the privacy of the common man is to prevent the accumulation of records upon him. I recognise that laws require identity verification in some cases, but frankly, kids these days are smart enough to bypass pretty much anything we come up with - implementing identity verification doesn't protect the curious teenagers - all it does is erode the privacy of the real adults.