Buyer Beware!!!!

We are currently 100% full so I need no customers at the present. But I appreciate your concern.

From the Second Life Wiki: Private Island FAQ

http://secondlife.com/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Private+Island+FAQ

you keep scapegoating LL for your crusade. if this is what LL says, and not YOU, why are YOU the one who's posting on teh forums about it and not LL? why don't you just report it to LL via the abuse report or support button and let them deal with it?

i guess it has nothing to do with you dozen rental sims.

Actually 13 sims now, you should keep better track of us.

If you own any sims you know what we are told. I am no scapegoating anyone just stating facts. But, maybe they have been changed and we were not told. If you have any info that we are able to sell a part of a private estate I would appreciate seeing it. To my knowledge we can sell the entire estate and pay the trans fee but can not sell a part of it.

to my knowledge there are two players running estate grids with land sales that LL is aware of and endorses. i don't see LL policing it or shutting it down. that should be a sign to you that there is nothing wrong with the practice.

I find this mind bogling, how this can go on for 6 pages, when all Alliez was trying to do is warn people that the person IMing about land for sale (which I find a bit shady anyway, if people want land they come to you, not the other way around), was in an estate sim, for people who didn't know that estate land can't be sold using the in world tools, where it shows up in about land, and as far as LL are concerned, you own it.

She didn't name names, she didn't do anything wrong.. Just let it go, please?

Possibly there is nothing wrong with it. But, until I know I wont sell any land. Who knows what LL will do, I sure dont. I try to keep to the rules set in place that I read. And I am not aware the LL endorses this at all. Are you? If you have info that LL endorses this please let me know.

Okay... hypothetically, if your landlord goes away tomorrow and gives up his tier do you still "own" your land? Will it persist beyond that event if it occurs?

As I said before, it's a lease. Your faith in your contract does not change the definition of the word "lease." It simply means you feel you have a solid lease. The solidity of your lease does not create ownership.

Hey.. here's an idea... let's look at the Island FAQ, specifically:
http://secondlife.com/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Private+Island+FAQ

"4. Can a Group Own a Private Island?
Island owners can now deed out the land on their private island to a group. The actual ownership is not conveyed to the group (you still own the island) and group members cannot pay for the island by contributing land allocations. The owner (you) will always be billed the full island monthly payment no matter how the group land is set up."

Note how it says actual ownership is not conveyed. Note how it does not mention that one's personal belief or faith in a contract between _lessor_ and _lessee_ will maintain the existance of a deeded parcel in the event the _owner_ goes away. Note how it makes clear there can only be _one_ owner.

It would be a lot easier to beware if you told us who and where. Oooh, that kind of rhymes!

By your own definition, leasing is:

" 1. A contract granting use or occupation of property during a specified period in exchange for a specified rent.
2. The term or duration of such a contract.
2. Property used or occupied under the terms of such a contract."

That is not what I'm doing. I am not occupying a property for a while. I bought the property from Nexus Nash. If I were leasing it, I could not sell it.

I don't care if you want to view my land as having only one owner, and that owner being Nexus. Nexus and I have an agreement where we see it as my land, with me being the owner. We know we have to jump through extra hoops when I want to sell the land. And we know the entire unwritten contract depends on my faith in Gigas and the honor of Gigas. But this is how it works for us, and for Gigas and all of its residents, and that is sufficient for the residents.

Beyond that, though, when I sell the land, I will get the money. Not Nexus.

There are indeed differences between buying from Lindens and "buying" from another resident.

But "buying" this way is not leasing. It is not even "leasing."

coco

Coco - this is no evidence at all that the metaphor "lease" is inappropriate. You seem to be missing the point that in RL leases are bought and sold by the leaseholders, at any price they choose. They are bought and sold just like land. But the ownership of the land itself does not change. The ownership of the lease itself is what changes hands. The rental agreement, with all its rights and obligations is transferred by one tenant to a new tenant, who pays the first tenant a "purchase price". But it purchases the lease agreement, not the land.

Isn't that a really good parallel ? Wouldn't the word "lease" have been much better ?
Your proposal that we always use a whole multiword phrase isnt very practical. We need a short name, preferably single word.

Now you see how a lease in RL has all these characteristics of resellability at any price the tenant can get - now you see this, don't you agree it would be a good word to use ? Since we must avoid the word sell - it being already used to describe something different ?

"Beyond that, though, when I sell the land, I will get the money. Not Nexus."
seems to suggest you think this doesn't happen with RL leases. But it is exactly what happens with RL leases. You don't have to pay the landholder. You pay the previous leaseholder. It's the same.

Well, yes, it's what I don't think happens with real-life leases.

Because lease generally means to me, you pay a certain amount in perpuity. And if you stop paying, yu don't have the thing. I'm not familar really with leases which are sold by one person holding it to another.

coco

You are paying LL tier in perpetuity. If you stop paying, you don't hold the land anymore.

More dirty campaigning by the Alliez-Hiro gang. How sad

At least it give some relief to see that I am not the only competitor they target with their mud throwing and (des)infomercial postings.

Buying land in private estates is possible within the land ownership system the private estate owner might create. If you should invest there depends on how much you trust the person or group who guarantees your ownership rights.

Alternatively you can rent. Since I don't want turn this into infomercial for my own business ( I also rent out land beside selling it), I will supply you some people who rent land and don't throw mud at competitors:

- Sensual Casanova
- Crucial Armitage
- Prokofy Neva
- Schwanson Schlegel
- Gigas

I enjoy the friendly competition in the land market. I hope the black sheep will one day also learn and leave the mud pit.

Is there no honor among thieves? A knave, a rascal, an eater of broken meats, a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, action-taking, whoreson glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pander, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch, one whom I will beat into clamorous whining if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition.

A million monkeys wrote that last part and I have no idea whom they are referring to.

Give me a fucking break


I do not know all of them too well, but from what I have seen, very decent people, agree with you the Anshe

Throw mud? Na, Speak out yes. And at competitors? Na, only those who are deceptive.

I too hope the black sheep leaves as soon as possible, this place will be much friendlier when that happens. I am hoping that will be sooner rather than later.

If only you understood the concept of Irony



Oh Anshe, there are many decent people to buy and rent from out there. What I found most interesting about your list tho, is you have selected one person who's main business is not renting and rarely get's involved in these discussions, two people who hold the same views as the 'mud slinging Alliez and Hiro' on what you are doing, one who is not permitted to post in the forums, and another who will not speak against you as he is selling private estate plots himself. I think what your list is about (as well as being great landlords I am sure), is those who do not speak out against the mighty Anshe.

I think the princess with delusions of grandeur just doen't take to kindly to being spoken against

hmmmm.....i dont think anyone understanding the point, at all about this topic.....basicy i think she trying to say.....someone new unknown to the "Land" buying world has come along and offered this the question is, is it a scam? do the buyers know what there rights are owning private land....do they have all the information....this is the question you need to ask yourself......


say i did not understand land....i was looking around and saw about this land and then i bit like 30k on it and win ....but then 2 months later i want to sell....and the land owner like sorry you cant put it up for sale....and he does not help out? then what?

Tier = property tax

You hit the nail on the head in one, Luminia. Why are so many other people unable to see this ? Or do they have reasons for not wanting to see ?

Can anyone think what those reasons might be ?

and btw i like most of the people like anshe , Hiro and Alliez because there all very nice people to get to know, i knew anshe and Alliez when they only owned a sim or something

Tell me when did LL change the fact that if you own an estate you can sell a part of it? They never informed me! I would appreciate your sending me that information.

We all know you are the land baron. After all you were #1 in incentive awards with over 100 sims/land holdings and we were only #4 with 10 sims at the time. We congratulate you and feel sure you will continue to do as you are now doing.

As for mud throwing there is none. I stand by the tos. Are you telling me LL is wrong and you are correct? Last I knew it was their platform, or did that change also? If LL changes what they say I say great go with it, but, til they do I follow the terms of service I agreed to follow.

9. Can I Transfer My Island?
Private islands are transferable by the original owner to another SL resident. The billing will continue on the same schedule and buyer will be billed for the full amount of the next month's payment. The cost of transfer is US$100 and will be billed to the seller. This payment is for the backend work by Linden Lab including changing settings, billing transfer, changing the name, and returning the island to original terraform (if desired). Any additional changes, including custom terraforming, will be billed to the buyer at the rate of $53 an hour. The island can only be transferred as a single parcel. It will not be possible to sell subsections of the island at any time. Any transfer of funds, whether in L$ or US$, must be handled between the original owner and the new owner. Linden Lab is unable to provide billing support, or to enforce any payment agreements between you and the new owner.

if you know anywhere that LL says it is wrong to sublease land like you are doing and/or to sell the rights to those leases for the emmergent communities, please let me know. until then i will assume what you are doing is wrong.

"We support the idea of renting -- what we take exception
to is positioning a rental as a sale" - A Senior Linden - 4th June 2005