Buyer Beware!!!!

ZOMG? ANSSHE OWNS ALL OF SL EVIL ZOMG?!111

wtf are you talking about? new old, what do i care? why do you?

Give me a break.

Originally Posted by Jauani Wu



I thank you for your opinion Jauani - I will file it in the appropriate folder in my inventory

I'd never actually equated the fact that you can't properly sell estate land to the fact that can't properly rent land either. How many threads have people started after the mall that housed their rented shop suddenly vanished with no explanation from the landlord. How many threads have people started after the building that housed their rented apartment suddenly vanished with no explanation from the landlord. These things have happened regularly on estates and the mainland alike.

The concensus in most of these situations was "sorry that happened to you but it IS their land to do with it as they see fit." Nobody ever thought to campaign against the falsehood of "renting" land for a shop or apartment when that's not a feature supported by LL in any way.

If we feel compelled to preach to the masses that they can't properly purchase estate land, it only makes sense that we inform them completely by making it clear that they can't properly rent land with any, absolutely not any, guarantee of contractual obligation on the part of the landlord to fulfill the terms of the lease.

Often the landlords eventually post a reason or apology and grant refunds. But the fact remains that the tenents aren't in any way guaranteed what they initially pay for because there's no builtin way to contractually enforce a guarantee.

I for obvious reaons WAY prefer renting, and I think Hiro is an awesome landlord. In my experience, probably the best in LL.

If I were to recommend anyone between renting land from Hiro and buying land from anyone else, I'd *always* recommend Hiro. Guaranteed.

My guess is that Alliez is probably just as good as Hiro likes him.

However, if I had to choose between buying land on the continent of Purina and buying land from an established landlord, trust me, I would infinitely prefer to buy land from an island landlord.

Sure, that landlord can reclaim the land, but at least some jerkoff isn't going to come set up shop next to me with a dozen Impeach Bush signs rotating away.

Khamon,

I believe what most object to is the idea of paying up front money for property that LL has said cant be sold anyhow. I was told last night the bidding starts at 27K for the land. Land that he cant sell. This is what it comes down to.

How can anyone say the are selling a part of an estate when LL tell us we cant sell it? Granted, we can sell a entire estate and pay the $100 trans. fee but we all have been told over and over parts of an estate can not be sold. An example of this might be the islands we rent out, if we told ppl we are selling you this island. We can not do that.

buying and selling island sim land from a 3rd party business as defined by their TOS is just as legitimate as buying and selling land from LL as defined by their TOS.

buying and selling island land may, atm, be inconvenient in comparision. that is the choice of the player that engages in this activity.

it is not unheard of that players buying island sim land have eventually over time bought up the entire sim and have had it turned over to them from the 3rd party. this only makes it more convicing that buying island land from a 3rd party business is a legitimate (though at times inconvenient) option.

No, what LL doesn't want is for people to confuse buying land from LL and buying land from a virtual landlord.

But until we have leasing available they have left us with very very little choice.

But, by all means, to hell with buying island land.

Go buy land on the main grid, where any screwball can lag the sim and ruin all visual immersion.

LL has lead us down this path of ultimate frustration by not listening to the obvious truth several months ago.

She's trying to cut in on Blaze's business.

Not that I'm involved in this little fray, or that I particularly like land barons (I rented from Alliez for quite a while, thank you very much), but let's clarify:

BUYING land involves owning land and paying a tier fee to Linden Labs.
RENTING land involves renting land and paying rent to an estate owner.

You can't BUY land on a private island or estate. Can't. Be. Done.

Anyone that wants to argue with that, please go to your private estate and try to set a plot of land (even a little one!) for sale. If you don't have a private estate, then you'll just have to trust that the people who do know you can't do it.

People I think get confused when they pay an up front price for land, then pay monthly tier fees to a landlord. That's still renting.

1> why do i have to pay reoccuring fees if i bought the land? i don't pay monthly fees to the seller for my tv, or computer, or house.

2> why can't i pay recurring fees for buying the right to land from a third party which subleases computer resources from LL who is in turn leasing them from an ISP. why?

3> why can't i trust a 3rd party business like i i trust LL to be in business next week and not lose all the money i spent on virtual nothing in SL? oh i just do. hmm maybe it's just not so sim

4> oh isn't buying LL land just renting?

What ???? I do suggest you get your facts straight. I dont need to cut in on anyones business. Check for yourself!

Its not like I have any desire to sell Neculear Missiles to blow up neighbors as Blaze does, as listed in his profile

People who don't think this can or should be done ought to go tell that to Nexus Nash, too.

I "bought" land from Gigas some six-seven months ago, and have happily paid Nexus "tier" ever since.

The land is, for all practical purposes, mine to sell to anyone I want at any price I want, or to just abandon if I prefer. Those are the same options I have with the land I "really" own for my shop on the mainland.

Works for me.

coco

P.S. The reason that's not still "just renting" is if I want to move, I can sell the land myself, at whatever price I like. And keep the money.

Coco,
Why pay an upfront charge? If you rent you still have any monies that you would have given as upfront money, and could have used in many ways. You can do all you mention when you rent, yet still have all rights of property owner.

According to all our mail we cant sell land on private estates. Maybe this has changed and we were not told ...

azure island provides a network of roads and public places.

dreamland provides the possiblity to sell back land, to by up the entire sim and have it transfered

hiro/alliez provide land usage with no upfront cost.

each has it's benefit. consumers have choices.

Let's put it this way Alliez:


If IceDragons "sold" me a parcel of land, I'd be more than *willing* to pay for it.

Even though, I am savvy about what "selling" means.

But if LL "sold" me a parcel of land, I'd have to be an absolute lunatic to buy it.

Why would anyone in their right mind 'buy' land on the main grid? I can't fathom it.

I can think of many reasons why you might buy land on an island though. For example, you really like your neighbours.

Ah, so it's another one of blaze's alts

*ducks and runs away quickly*

1. I don't know about you, but I own a house and pay very significant bi-annual "tier" fees to my city government. I also previously owned a condominium with monthly "tier" fees that pay for all the things that go into land & building maintenance.
2. You certainly can, but the terminology in the two actions should be different. I think you are all miring in semantics. Citizens, especially new citizens, are easily confused by the concept that buying land from 3rd party DOES NOT afford exactly the same land rights as buying from LL.
3. If you don't understand why it is easier for people to trust LL as a business and ongoing concern as opposed to some 3rd party SL person, where you may never know the RL person behind - ie business transparency, then I don't know how to answer this.
4. No. See #1 and the fact that you can sell at any time without having to arrange it through LL. Though the possibility exists that LL folds and you end up with nothing, this does not mean you don't own the land. Do you not own stock in a company if the real possibility exists that the company goes bankrupt and you end up with nothing?

a.) Because I wanted to be able to sell it.

b.) Because it's a zoned sim. Because it's a beautiful sim. (Now several sims.)

c.) Because after talking to Adam and Nexus for about ten minutes, back when they opened their very first sim on the mainland, I pegged these guys for winners. (And nice guys, as well.) I wanted to invest in what they were building.

It is exactly the way it is if you are buying lands from the Lindens: An upfront charge, and tier each week. The difference is group power - and I don't mean just in the advantages of grouping for extra tier. I mean, the power of a lot of people coming together to make a sim all it can be, on the structure of a genius overall design already put into place by Nexus and Adam.

The only really practical difference is when you go to sell your land, you can't list it the same way you list land you bought from the Lindens.

I agree with Jauani - more options; different strokes for different folks. All of them are good.

coco

The fact that you can't fathom it doesn't make it a less viable option for people that want that. I much prefer to be on the main grid. I can't fathom why you would want to shun the chaos of the main grid and live in on an island. However, I don't feel like I need to bash your choice.

Jauani

buying and selling island sim land from a 3rd party business as defined by their TOS is just as legitimate as buying and selling land from LL as defined by their TOS.

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This is obviously not true since Lindens have stopped, at long last, the ability for some island owners to erroneously list their deeds in the Land for Sale list.

As for the 3rd party business having their own TOS, its meaningless, this is LL's world and only their TOS is applicable.

I don't get what all this vitreol is about.

Alexa

are you comparing real estate to ISP server resources? do you pay your "tier fee" to the person who sold you your house?


no, it is not EXACTLY THE SAME. i don't know who has argued that. that does nto mean it is not legitimate.


when the 3rd party business person is very candid about their RL identity and LL is still a company that is operating at a loss, i think they guarantees are not very different at all.


you cannot sell at anytime. you can only sell when there is a demand for your parcel for the price that you set and that someone is aware and available to buy it. if you want to sell right away, then you will be selling to the hand full of land traders at their asking asking price, which is pretty much the sell back condition on dreamland, for example.

owning Land in SL is not the same as holding stock in LL. it is so not the same i can't fathom where you are going with that suggestion

Linden Lab has stopped allowing the listing to reduce any confusion that 3rd party island grid land sales are not the same as main land sales. it is readily apparent to all experienced players the two are different.

people are misinterpreting the difference in play as a difference in legitamacy. that is completely off base. there is no reason why a contract between two parties in the SL community can not be binding and upheld, regardless of whether they are a consuming player resident or a service providing business resident.

i believe people can have faith in contracts between players in SL, who are not actually fake virtual characters, but real life people governed by real life laws. i have absolutely no problem having a business relationships in SL, although the level of risk i take will reflect if the other player chooses to remain anonymous or not as well as the usal factors.

the vitriol is about reoccuring posts on the same topic by land renters.