Economy Announcement: Removal of Traffic Incentives

Jonas, are you not the person who was against the "free flight" movement because if you wanted a place to fly you should buy it? I have given up on flight in SL, my Flight Simulator 2004 is a lot better for such and there are no security scripts involved. If I want interaction I can log onto Vatsim. Clue here, it is FREE! I could be wrong if so please tell me.

About Lindens, The demise of the stippend will have no real effect on me. I have bought just about everthing needed. The stuff sold is just different types of the same thing. So I lose L$500 a week, big deal. I will just stop buying anymore stuff. No Problem, the Lindens will continue to get my membership fees and tier. The only effect will be on the merchants. Those that will be left are the people that enjoy Second Life for the game and not the money. It will also help with the lag

I just can't understand what SL is going to be like after this takes place. Places like Parks, Romantic get-a-ways, attractions, etc. are going to have to close down.
Without dwell there will be no income to keep these places going. I know that my park will close down. I will go from paying sl my $50 rl money to a basic account. There will be no reason for me to pay that type of money and get nothing to help with my tier payments.

I can even imagine that soon I will leave sl alltogether. I mean, what will there be to do there? Everyone will have stores because that is the only thing that will make money. So there will be a million stores and home and thats it.

How much money will SL lose when people start getting bored and leaving? Or when people like me are forced to tier down?

It seems so simple to just do away with the camping chairs and let people get the dwell based on what their land has to offer.

It's not the dwell payments dummy, its the fact that rare things are now quite common. The value of inworld items is dropping and the currency is dropping with it. Where once there were only a few high quality skin makers now there is one on every corner and the $1500 skin is now $500. Money is cheap because you have made it so easy to aquire through the Lindex. The value of land is falling because so much of it is for sale. You wanna stabilize the value of the Linden, you have to remove it, not just stop the flow of new money... 6-9% makes sooo little difference it isn't funny but the dammage will be widespread. You are turning a groovy party into a Tupperware and Amway party. Would you like to buy this lovely bowl set with a locking lid or maybe this sink and drain cleaner? Enjoy the music while it lasts because it gets turned off if we don't meet our goal of 10 complete sets of plastic ware.

I remember when...... I used to log on and look for a cool event, and then teleport to the nearest telehub for the event, and shop at the telehub prior to showing up. Then attending events just to rate people, sometimes up to 50 people a night, and hope for the money ball to throw money my way. Club owners throwing out big money to keep you for hours upon hours to bring up their dwell, just so they could get thier dwell bonus.

I remember people holding events just to get the event money for hosting. I would stay at the clubs just to be rated so I would earn a bonus for having a high rating.

Was that bad? I got to see a lot of good clubs, and meet a lot of cool people.

First the event money disapeared, so now, a lot less events are being held. That changed my Sl experience big time. Then ratings bonuses left, and then there was no reason to meet new people, that was another big change in SL. Then the telehubs disapeared, now there is no reason to fly over SL and see new things. Now the dwell bonus is going away, and I know this is going to change how I play the game too.

Every time a big change like this happens there are people who say they will tier down, and some go to the point to say they are going to quit, and some do exactly that. I have seen players come and players go. But if you look at the number of people playing, they are going up. And I would assume they will keep going up. New players wont know any deference, and they will play without ever missing the free money. They wont have to adapt. Older players have gone through this, like me, and will adapt. The change isn't really bad, just different. People will adapt, and continue to play.

Sl has alot to offer, even if its not free money. The idea behind all of this is to control the lindex. Its expected that if you don't get L$ for free, you will buy it. That will take more off the market, and allow the L$ value to rise. The only flaw I see in this is that it hurts the poor people. The people who count on the small dwell that they get from the groups. Either to supliment their buying habbits, or need it to suppliment thier tier. Believe it or not, there are some who gladdy pay the High tier, without concern for the dwell bonus. They do it out of fun for the game. Everybody plays SL for different reasons, no two people play it for the same reason. This will affect some big time, and some not at all.

For those of you who think this is bad, I recommend you log off and log back in as if this was the first day you played SL, and just accept the new rules as if this is the way it always has been, and get over it.

Opps, I've gone way to long, sorry about that.

Viper Ritter.

I Personally Dont think it will Be that bad. I mean This is our 'Second Life' Yes but it isnt a complete dream would. But in the since In the real world if you had land you would be paying taxes on it. You as an individual would be paying taxes. Here we get free money where in the real would it would be the other way around Correct? So in my opinion Dwell is something that isnt needed anyway. This game isnt about money. Yes i sell things but i get more of a satisfaction in thinking that someone liked my things other then the money i made off of it. Most of the space i use to sell my things are rented space at malls which are usually a reasonable price and if the mall doesnt pay for itself from my sales there then i leave after a while. The rest of the space i use my in game friends pay for. I would be glad to help them pay but i cant and they understand that. But i do help them out as much as I can to keep everything in order and try to work for what i get.

As far as those who are saying the places that don't make money will fail. What about a joint project with others. Everyone pays (or does their part) in making something attractive. Maybe a combination of things (stores, a club, maybe even a garden) So everyone gets a bit of what they want and it doesnt cost any one person a fortune.

So yes Dwell is a nice thing to have in your pocket if you work for it. But for those who actually work for it usually dont need it.

Huh ? sorry ?
You are not paid to post in this forum, so there is no reason to post here... ya know ?

From: someone

Would you rather pay taxes?

We pay taxes in the form of tier--about 200% of the value of the land every year. Those are about the highest taxes I've ever heard of anywhere.

Right now it is becoming harder and harder to justify paying that much. Like I said, as long as I break even, I'll keep the land and tier that I have.

When I start to lose more money than I can afford (which is very little), then I tier down, or go to a basic membership. There is always the sandbox, at least as long as SL stays open. When they start charging for the sandbox, I'll be gone.

Well after reading this.... stopped the Mrs and I cold from buying land. Or putting any more money into this game.... I have worked 12hr days 6-7 days a week. Currently things have slowed down I only having to work 8hr days 5 days a week. I DON'T need to come home and work another 8hrs just to make any L$ so I can enjoy playing a game. I understand that they might have to do a little something... but Sheeezzzz we only get $500L a week.... not like we can buy alot with that anyway. But as least you can buy some. Anyway I think they would be cutting their own throats in the long run if they cut the Stipends!!!! just my opinion.... not that it counts for much!!!

ohhh and considering there was tranactions of 2.6M US dollars in the first quarter of 2006... read their (SL) postings. Think they bring in enough RL money with out shafting the ones that just want to enjoy a relaxing time playing the game.



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Yes i am sorry there is the tier. But i always think of the up front amount that you pay for land as a down payment or security deposit so to speak and the tier as Rent. Concidering your renting the Server space from LL. But i still feel strongly about my other points. But as i see it if your owning the land for a house you probably wouldnt get the traffic to get a huge Dwell. On the other hand if its your business most make the money off of the business itself. But i Do appologize I should not have put it in 'Taxes' For land.. Hey at least we dont have to pay Income taxes off the money we make elsewhere in game in the form of L$.

Darlin', not everything is about money. Don't discount all those people for whom the attraction of SL is the ability for them to create their own little bit of art and add it to the community. Some of us just made wonderful spaces for our own pleasure - and the dwell never even had a shot at covering tier. Truth is, excluding the few high ranking "passive environs", none of use even notice dwell payments because they really don't contribute much. What you end up with are people who pay tier happily for their space in the living gallery of SL or a lot of us also have businesses that support our public parkland, so not much is really in danger of us fading away. We didn't make these spaces because we were looking to be economic warriors in SL - we knew there wasn't any money in providing public art.

Exactly! Most artistic spaces are there for enjoyment mostly of the Artist. And the ones that do come by enjoy it too but dont provide much on the traffic aspect. Like i said what about a joint project to get your small space to express your views while your "Partners" can build a mall and what not to bring in some money to support the Community project itself.

For real? You need to be paid to have a reason to meet new people? That's just warped.
And if you want to fly over SL, you don't need a reason other than cos ya wanna. You don't need a telehub to facilitate that. I often fly over a few sims, just to explore.

I wonder how SL is going to support its populs now that club owners are going to pretty much do away with dancer and host payments. Dwelling and rate money increases was part of the soical plan to get people out of their homes and into the social actions (pre jan 2005 ). But now that the populas is 181,000+ there seems to be no need dowe dwellign payments anymore..

It's time for the populace to start paying, I guess. That way the dancers can get paid.
Wouldn't take much... would benefit many.

1-> Economy will be better.
2-> Residetns will be more creatiave.
3-> Traffic will be a RESULT not a MISSION.
4-> Alt account pollution will decrease.
5-> When you goto a place you will see 10-15 ACTIVE people instead of 30 sleeping people.

Just calm down all and watch. If it brings REALLY BAD results(it wont) than GOOD RESULTS, LL is still here and can change things anytime.

Just give it a chance. Everything will be better in 2 months and SL will be nicer.

You are aware of that you are saying "as soon as I have to pay for entertainment I will quit"? I mean, that is a honorable attitude. Many people share it. It just seems a little bit unfair to those who are providing the entertainment.

as hell.

They can, but they never do. Isn't that what they said about the ResMod program? Yuppers.

Agreed. The suggestion to base traffic numbers solely on someone stepping foot on your land and not how long they stay could be easily gamed by just buying up a bunch of 16m plots all about and posting fake event listings at each one for every time slot of the day. The event listings and/or ads would get them there to register as a visitor for you and it wouldn't matter to you that they felt slighted and went elsewhere. I'm seeing infomercials already..."Learn how you too can make millions of L$'s by posting hundreds of tiny ads for fake events on your dozens of tiny parcels!!!"





Amen.






Bingo. Similar to the debate I recently engaged in with a girl who insisted that "all information should be free". Makes a great bumper sticker, but if the "information" (music, movies, books, etc.) costs someone time and/or money to produce, market, and/or distribute, and you desire to experience that "information" yourself, then perhaps you might be so kind as to pay some small amount to show that you appreciate their efforts and wish them to continue in the path they've chosen? There are a handful of kind folks who come in my club on a regular basis who do just that and I've received donations from $L1 to L$20 regularly, up to L$8,000 (plus prizes) from an event sponsor for a three hour event and L$18,000 from a close friend, specifically for the club. There are those who are willing to show their appreciation for those who provide them with some form of entertainment/enjoyment and those who expect everything to be handed to them without regard to the costs (time and money) associated with that which is being provided. I agree with others who have suggested that we will soon start seeing many more sponsored events, whether sponsored by in-world content creators or RL companies.

...and as far as this dwell bonus announcement. I was initially disappointed until I did the math and realized that for my half a sim worth of land, I'm only getting around US $3.50/month in dwell bonuses anyhow. I can see how some people will be upset, but it's better than taking away stipends. Dwell bonuses only affect land owners who, for the most part, can afford to buy L$'s if they need, while taking away stipends would be taking money from everyone, including people who may not be otherwise able or willing to spend real money to buy L$'s to purchase goods, etc. from others. Put another way, those of use who own land are much more likely to already have other sources of income above and beyond dwell bonuses, as well as the means to purchase L$'s if we need them, while many people who do not own land, may not be able or willing to do so; therefore, taking away stipends would be much more detrimental to the SL economy. Perhaps now we'll see a lot more land owners on camping chairs at the places that keep them strictly to boost their traffic numbers for the listings.

Said at least a thousand times in this forum, but I still want to drop a note saying that this is a good move. less money for free, more insentives to create content which doesnt involve camping chairs.
All in itself, dwell was certainly not a bad idea. Organise a free event, and instead of having admission tickets or smth, get at least some moeny for it for the time ppl spend at your place. But... if it did not work, it did not.
Hey, maybe I am just saying that because I don't depend on dwell at all?


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everything that no one ever told you abot making money in SL! (r)

Wish and expect in one hand, Sh** in the other and see which one fills up faster.

Passive environs I love.. one that I want to focus on was the site of my SL wedding. I will be trying to support that garden in particular as best I can. For reference its simply called 'The Garden' and the sim is Cichlid (210, 110, 40).

Jonas-

I have looked at it that way. The entire way I structured my existence and environs in SecondLife was BUILT around honest and merited dwell income. I made things that were fun to watch while folks listened to music and chatted... things that were out of the ordinary enough and not for sale that friends would bring friends to see them.

I built the Particle Lab as a place to for folks to learn and experiment... and the dwell from that was... well.. it was swell.

But then the camping chairs came.

My dwell income dropped as my traffic grew.

Sure I was ticked off... but I got over it months ago.

If anyone can pay tier off the meager amounts of dwell that are doled out after the chair-masters have taking their slice, then I salute them. If the loss of dwell causes some people to scale back or just give up out of frustration then I am saddened by it.

But it is time for this change. Past time.

The Gardens and beaches of Teal will remain open for the indeterminate future. If they do close down it will be due to reasons outside of SL, not within.

I have added a vendomat or two to offset the reduced dwell income over the last so-many months. I'll add a few more items for sale to make up for the small remaining loss the full removal of dwell income will impose on me.

Yes, I liked dwell income. I liked ratings bonuses. Almost made the developer incentive lists a few times but wasn't driven enough to put myself in that league.

My point is: It's time for Linden Labs to stop telling us what good content is.

It is time for us to tell each other.. and to reward each other in our ways, not theirs.

(and there is no shame in putting out a tip jar)

--
Change for the machines? -- rudy rucker

If you need a tip jar, feel free to buzz me in game

I designed one that I feel is original and grabs attention for mine. I use it mostly while hosting or giving prizes out to draw in players for games others ar ehosting.

id like to know HOW LL thinks that anyone that has land for free use by others will survive?
Sandlots will be gone, Furnations are suffering now, parks and amazing builds will be gone, Malls will even be useless if stipend is gone...

May as well drop an atomic bomb on this place...
example, we own close to a sim, between the two of us we pay $200/US cash/mo in land fees, we got around $200-250 L wk in regular traffic payments off of 4-8000 a day in traffic. With this we showed a free movie ($750-1500L) week, have a park, pool and a train for free entertainment.

Thinking now, all thats left for most here will be the sex..may as well rip it all out and put in a brothal and a "no-tell" motel...
Neither of us can afford to play this game at this expense, without some offset in real cash, its either the above, or let the land go back and or sell it, if anyone's foolish enough to buy it, but all in all we cant afford any land thats not paying for itself, so out comes the pool, parks and any area thats not used for income..so be it Phillip...no more fun..its all out war for the bucks...remember you have to play here too, or is that the problem, you don't have any use for SL other than for bucks yourself ??

I think the point is, nobody is entitled to or needs to play Second Life. How much do you spend on cable/satellite TV? Internet? Going to the movies/renting videos? Other games online? (or just buying the game in the first place. A good computer game runs $40-$60 these days, that'll buy a lot of loot in SecondLife. Plus they typically charge $12-$15 monthly for online games) Like anything else, SL is a form of entertainment for your first life. You pay for all the rest too, why should SL be different?

You don't have to work here, but you can if you want. Some people enjoy it, some don't. That's what LindeX is for. If you don't want to work for your L$, you spend some entertainment dollars to buy your entertainment like you do everywhere else.

If this is not where you feel you're getting the bang for your entertainment dollar then there's plenty of other choices.

Additionally, just because they said there was transactions of 2.6M in a quarter means absolutely NOTHING. If they're counting all transactions, that means I can give you 1000 lindens, and you give them right back, and that's 2000 in transactions. That happens a LOT in Second Life. Additionally, even if it's somehow excluding that, those are transactions between players anyway and have absolutely nothing to do with how much money LL is making.

And frankly, nobody cares how much you work in real life. If you can't afford/don't want to spend some of your entertainment budget here, that's your decision. Your argument is basically the same thing as demanding that Blizzard give you a free World of Warcraft account, or that your internet provider give you free internet, or whatever. It's bogus and irrelevent.

Remember, SECOND LIFE IS ENTERTAINMENT, YOU PAY FOR ENTERTAINMENT. If it turns out the entertainment can pay you back some or all of that later, then great! But that takes effort, and to EXPECT it is ridiculous.