Prok is right. SL is a dog's breakfast. Why do people argue with this?

That mouse seems to be unaware of the need for neck protection!

I hope it all turned out ok.

While it's none of your business, my tier is full. And I am not strong arming anyone. I have not done anything to deserve an AR. I am not a busybody anymore than you are one.

Why can I not post here if you can? I haven't said anything derogatory, just making my points like you are. What is the difference?

I have never issued an AR but your threats are very interesting. What am I doing wrong other than trying to understand why your complaints are any different than mine?

Could anyone explain to me why I can't post here? Why I should follow Prok's instructions?

*Asks self why I am wasting time on a woman who pays only $75 tier, when I pay tons more than that? It's aburd*.

Read the post, hon. It says stop flying up to me in the game, stop IMing me with pressure tactics and demands to sell, stop faking to be nice and cooperating or whatever, just bug off. That is my right. Get off my property so I don't ban you. And this has nothing to do with posting, I will leave that to Pathfinder to sort out. It is not my job to determine who gets to post or not.

Yes, your tier is full with a tier payment, but not with all the land you want all in one place.
I have this on good authority. But who cares. If it isn't correct, and that good authority is mistaken, whatever.

Spell much? That would be due to your lack of education obviously. Comments like that, when you spew off your perception of Linden favortism, only stipulates to your asshattedness, yet again.

ummm... april? prok?

get a room

Ooh, I'm not important because I only pay $75 a month. I'm sorry. How much would it take to be important to you? I only IM'ed you once when you said something about not having money for Sutherland. I was at the dam in Sutherland because last time it was for sale. I hadn't realized you had bought Anshe's cave.

As for your good authority, I guess someone I talked to and thought was a friend is going back to you with out of date information. This may make you feel superior, but it makes me feel sad.

I have never asked Ghoti to sell me land. I actually sold her and Leena a piece I had in Pimushe that was on her side of the road when I thought I was leaving Pimushe and wondered to her if I could have it back when I decided to stay to which she opted to keep it, which was her right. I have never ever talked to anyone else in Pimushe about buying land.

I am not the bad guy here. I am like you Prok. Why can't I express myself to the same level you can?

Maybe, like blaze says, together we can make SL not be a dogs's breakfast. Each of us has something to bring to the table.

A little side note. I am very happy. In RL people often remark how happy I am. I have a job I like, a wonderful home with a signifcant other who adores me and two beautiful chihuahas who are well behaved and adorable. And I am having so much fun in SL. In fact Prok, you add to my enjoyment.

April, could you take these issues to the relevant community associations on these sims? I think they are more appropriate here than on these forums. Taking some tiny complaint about your tier-filling needs, or your sim-moving needs, or you view needs, and then blowing them up to attack my entire business and individual reputation, is not an appropriate use of game time or RL time.

I never said that you pressued any sale on Ghoti. Ghoti does just fine. But other neighbours next to you moved, and you got their land. Whatever.

I believe even the lowliest newbie free trial account is worth taking seriously, and I am never a tier prima donna. I never feel superior over somebody being right or wrong, but since this good authority is someone you endlessly invoked in these disputes -- and incorrectly and falsely and perjoratively I might add!-- I had to call you on it because the information was relevant *during that dispute* hmmm? So stop it with the good authority's quotes, because they are checked.

My point wasn't that one person with more tier is more important than another. My point is that I shouldn't be wasting my time letting someone without a huge investment of time and money and space in SL rob me of even one moment or SL or RL time when they aren't a tenant or buyer or good-willed neighbour. It's just not relevant.

The only person to move, moved on her own. She asked me to buy and at first I didn't because I didn't have the tier, so she put it up for sale. Then I got scared that someone else would move in and I increased my paltry $40 tier up to $75 and bought it.

I only am here to debate why we should agree with you. This thread was started because blaze feels we should follow your version of SL. blaze feels you are saving SL from being a dog's breakfast. I happen to disagree. And I am trying to reasonably discuss why I disagree. Isn't this what the forums are for? What you feel I should do, and what I can do are two different things.

I have not endlessly invoked anyone in "these disputes". I have never bought anyone else's name into the forums except in direct response to your first referencing them. Whenever I have made a post initially, I go out of my way not to drag others into it, just stating the facts.

To anyone that thinks this is merely a thing between Prok and me, I am sorry but it was only because he was mentioned in the title. Once Prok has someone in his sight, should that person not participate in the forums?

I feel I have as much to contribute to SL as anyone else, even with my measly $75 tier.

If someone else had moved in, it could have been better or worse than the white cube, but then you would have something between you and the white cube, less to complain about or at least something DIFFERENT to complain about, and not be forced into higher tier like that, that's awful.

Once again, every single tier level deserves respect, I just ask why *I personally* waste my time with your kvetchings, when they belong in a community association established for this purpose, not in this forum and not as an endless attack on me and my business.

I do not believe I make house or landscape decisions that make sims look like dog's breakfasts. Lordfly and Azrael do not make dog breakfasts, but human lunches. Anshe's terraforming is a pride and joy. These sims are good to look at. You don't know what you are talking about. If a white cube offends you (it's actually green now) work it out with the community or move.

Excuse, me, you are SO hilarious! You put ME in your sights by opening a thread specifically about me and my tenants, which anyone could establish, and I responded, as I always do, but you exhausted that thread so you invaded this one. ROFL. You are indeed hilarious! You started this dispute in public, now you complain.

April:

1. I am not selling in Pimushe.
2. I am not changing my landscaping in Sutherland.
3. I am not booting tenants who pay on time and even in advance.
4. I am not tolerating these constant attacks on me, my tenants, and my neighbours.

Dog breakfasts are of such a different order of business (go look at the domineering towers in this thread) that to insist that somebody's box on one lot next to yours, or somebody Plumeria-shortfall should get the same degree of attention is to trivialize the issue, and your supposed devotion to sim-wide beautification. I see now that in fact you are fastened on the trivial and I can no longer help you here, go to the community association, you aren't raising legitimate community-wide and sim-wide issues, but just trying to pressure a land sale and a tenant move-out on your one side in one sim next to you.

(edited)

splat1, did you know that....well...that God kills little kitties every time you...well...you know...

I think you lost track, there are no towers in this thread. This thread is about dog's breakfast that SL has become.

I am not trying to buy your land
I am arguing against an SL based on your viewpoint, since that is what this thread is about.

For the record. I would much rather have had that tower beside me, it's width was minimal, than the wide space of the current building. That is my opinion, I am allowed to express it.

Stop trying to make it seem I am trying to pressure you into doing something.

I am sticking to the topic of this thread.

I've been avoiding this thread, primarily because I hate to insert myself into arguments. I would like to make one observation, however. I was a neighbor of April's in Pinushe. I kept my land as natural as possible while I lived there. Yes, I sold my property to April and moved elsewhere. Her description of the transaction is accurate... I offered her the option to buy, then placed it on the market when she said she couldn't purchase it.

My decision to move had nothing whatsoever to do with April. She is a sweet person and a fine SL friend. I moved because it's in my nature to move. I tend to get bored if I stay in the same place too long. I should have chosen "Gypsy" as my SL name.

I sure hope this argument blows over and those involved agree to shake hands and let it go.

As for the question of buildings, I find certain kinds of buildings offensive to the eye. There is, however, something I find more offensive than an ugly building. I don't like the idea of zoned housing. If freedom results in aesthetic irritations, I'm personally willing to either live with it or move.

Forseti, I think we need to avoid discussing the problem in absolute terms.

Ideally, what we need to do is consider how it is we can converge SL to have more collaboration.


For example - shared inventory folders. Easier zoning.

There are a number of very small very minor changes SL could do to encourage people to work together intelligently and even foster greater community.

Unfortunately, for either technical or other reasons, they have not done this.

What unpleasant shit.

Jeska...

Actually, I thought the thread was getting quite interesting.

I understand some people might not want to really discuss the issue at hand, but I hope they don't feel that necessarily means those of who are interested can not discuss it either.

We really don't want to have to send this thread into the cornfield, do we? There are some very good issues being raised here.

Please ease off on the interpersonal conflicts. Try to discuss things rationally without any personal attacks or image spamming, and we'll all be fine.

<sits back and watches>

How to Improve Sims Without Socialism

1. Create community associations in every sim made up of all owners and tenants there who bought land or who pay rent from their accounts into rental boxes (not rich boyfriends in other sims, not somebody's mother who doesn't play the game anymore, whatever, just the residents who pay).

2. Get the Lindens to change the goddman hippie socialist dopesmoking utopian crap out of the group rules, so that ordinary members -- rogue members -- and just generally stupid clueless nits cannot press "officer recall" and bork up the group. It is just way too easy to do out of stupidity, and way to easy for one rogue member to paralyze a group of paying adults who bought land -- get rid of this nasty pronto.

3. Not only get rid of the officer recall function itself, get rid of the process whereby 2/3 of the members voting can remove a paying, land-owning or rent-paying officer. Remove it, nuke it, it's gone.

4. Provide an easy-to-use interface whereby group members can LEAVE GROUP MESSAGES without having to use the vote system which is inappropriate for group messages or accidently hit the officer recall function and ding their good neighbours.

5. Prevent the use of online live spam messages interrupting and cluttering everybody's days by these groups by having a simple opt-out toggle button for group members to receive messages only in one clump, or never, or sometimes like in any listserve on the Internet.

6. Charge only $50 for the formation of groups and allow 30 groups.

7. Make land groups a different animal than club groups so that only those who pay tier or pay rent can be the "property owning officers" whereas those who are just living on a sim or join the group but pay no tier can't have the right to screw everyone else who has paid. Make sure that officers who do not pay tier, i.e. contribute land and tier, do not have the right to sell the group's land; make two-tier version of officers to have officers who can edit land, set the URL, do other chores, but never make it possible for them to sell the land out from under those who bought it. It is among officers that vote functions are needed to enable officers who screw other officers to be removed; it is not up to ordinary members without tier and management functions to remove officers who buy and manage land.

8. Create a culture in the game whereby people always go to their Community Association FIRST to solve griefing/sales pressure/viewblocker issues and make it socially unacceptable to bore people with these conflicts on the forums.

9. Let players create these Community Associations with easy-to-use game tools. Don't have the Lindens run them, and have Lindens force player conflicts BACK to Community Associations but also have the option of sims WITHOUT them and dispute resolution options AROUND them so that they do not turn into communist Cuban-style Neighbourhood Associations.

10. Let the first tool that the CA's have when they finally all get together, off and on their spam list, is a vote that decides in a toggle box: a) residential b) club c) mall or d) experimental. Once that choice is made, it is stamped on sign at the edge of the sim. It can't be enforced, but it is a REQUEST. The CA cannot TELL you what to build, but they can encourage the growth of the sim in a certain direction. CA votes cannot be valid until after 30 days of existence of the CA and x percentage of the sim's land sold.

11. Lindens must charge for draw on servers, draw on CPU, draw using scripted objects to discourage asshats from taking away CPU resources from paying adults with lots of space collectively, held hostage by kids on a 1024.

12. Provide incentive for formations of groups especially land groups by giving them points for things like members or something.

13. Have everyone in the CA donate a 512 to hold public commons in their sim, not Gov Linden land, that they agree wil be kept nice, or auctioned off for prims collectively, or rented to small businesses to generate income to cover tier.

14. Create a tool whereby the donation of a tier level in a group CANNOT be withdrawn UNLESS the group founder is notified within 24 hours so as to cover the tier.

A Communy Association of 3 people on Calleta -- still in the making and still looking for members as the sim fills up -- could have pointed out to the mega tower that they shouldn't build in somebody's Tiki lap, and move back. it's hardly any loss for them to sell one 4096 of precious overpriced land and move a bit to equally overpriced land. The CA could have also dealt with issues of slander by builders, or issues of builders being griefed by other griefers. A kind of code of conduct, or Roberts Rules of Order for process in these CAs will be developed over time. It is important that every sim have the freedom to hvae very different kind of CA's depending on their needs.

nah, rules suck, you paid for a game that was open ended and inherently unfair to people of lesser money and talent, deal with it...

Maybe there could be some sims controlled that way. But we wouldn't want to make it every sim. If someone wants to live in a controlled sim, they should have that option.

The only problem with a strongly regulated Second Life in the manner reccommended is that the people with more free time will have more of a say.

Maybe there could be an experiment with some sims having such a structure. In the long wrong wouldn't we run the risk of ruining creativity?

Right now I would like to wait and see what happens in the recently zoned sims that individuals have put together and see how they work out before inflicting a Second Life wide control.

I read the entire bloody thread, including the back and forth bickering here and there.

Yes, some of us are amateur builders who came into SL, sometimes without a lick of an idea of how to build, and have never used a 3D modeller before. Yes, it takes time for us to develop the skills that some users already have.

I'm one of those really amateur builders.
It takes me a long time to build something, because I have to walk away and calm down when I do build - I get frustrated enough at myself when I build.
Telling me that my builds "are not good enough" isn't a good thing - Why am I going to try when my best attempts are being crapped all over by someone I've never met?
I could just as easily take the money I'm spending here, and spend it on other stuff, if I don't meet Joe Random's "Quality Control Standards".

Riiight. Moving along.




Some of the stuff in there scares me - I never thought about it like that.
I do agree with a good chunk of what's said.

But a little food for thought reveals this tidbit:
Sure, the CA could be watching what's going on at land level for builds. How high would a community authority's reach extend to? 256 meters up? 512? 768?

Then again, disregard. I've hardly been around here long enough to count.

I disagree. You have a good point and it counts. In fact it speaks volumes.

Well, I think you're taking it personally. Just because I say that SL is full of amateur content (this is inescapable) doesn't mean that

a) your content is amateurish
b) something can not be done about it.

A part of the problem is the lack of tools provided by SL. For example, simply by making more and better textures available (a rather simplistic thing) all of our builds would look much better.

Yet, SL doesn't want to make the meagre investment for this.