Prok is right. SL is a dog's breakfast. Why do people argue with this?

Let me first thank you for discussing things rationally. It seems like making the effort around here to be reasonable is clearly going beyond the call of duty.

No, my premise is that everyone knows that SL is a mess. There are better ways to get us all to collaborate in an effective manner and we should try effect change in that direction.

As for attracting new users, that's a completely new discussion that I'll leave for a different thread (feel free to join the one in the main forum, if that's what you're interested in).

Big fucking deal. They are in the minority. Most people go about their day without the need to find fault in others. You can post, and post and post all you want, but the Lindens will never listen because you make no sense whatsover. So go ahead, waste your breath, all it does is turn people against you and does nothing to fix problems.

Sorry, you mentioned the numbers of subscribers staying at 30,000. That's what made me think this thread was also for discussing that subject. I will try again.

Well, it's part of the problem.

I don't think more effective SL builds is going to solve that particular problem though. I think we're going to need to see some fundamental changes, or at least a commitment in a particular direction.

Is SL a game platform or a collaboration platform? It's not clear to me that you can do both at the same time. Or at least the attempt so far has resulted in something pretty watered down..

However, I think the collaboration problem could be easily fixed. Better zoning capability. It would require a very very simple change in LL code, yet they don't do it.

Your duty? What duty? I didnt see your name on the list of employees of LL, nor do you represent any group that I am aware of.

yeah, seems like a lot of people are considering SL as 'unfair' and it is, and it's ok to bitch about it, but don't lose sleep over it...

Weedy, you're getting a little upset. This really isn't worth it.

Rather than getting angry at me, try making fun of me. You'll find it more satisfying.

Your goddam right Im mad at you blaze. You are decent person, but it pains me to see you behave like an asshat sometimes. Your need for attention has far outstripped your objectivity in these forums.

Pick a topic, discuss it decorum, not bias. You are wholly incapable of moderating a debate, when you become the topic of the debate.

I think it's fun that you all start a whole thread about me without me.

Nothing about me, without me, please lol.

If I call someone "menstrual" it's because she's an old fellow TSO player who I've know for dog's ages and it just seems within the norm of the typical insulting bantering tone that we always maintain in our little group. It's just a style, not sexism, and she understands that perfectly. She gets to call me a bat-dweller and a cucumber and what-all with no fresh air? Well, I will tell her to eat chocolate bunnies, then.


Lordfly, uh...you get to have long rambling clipped, cut-and-paste threads with yourself grumbling over your breakfast cereal bowl (God make sure LF has had his cheerios before you go to bat with him), but I don't? You get to be cynical, vitriolic, abrupt, and engage in put-downs, forum smack-downs, and whatnot and I don't? Please.

I did not start a flame war, I pushed back, specifically, when Pahoa Jade took her dispute over some water next to my customer's land to the forums.

Constructive debate? You're one to judge. And you have to sometimes just fight the good fight, even if it gets dirty. It has to be done. This is vital work. I believe passionately in it. It is not a joke.

I have not called people names. Find an example of that, please.

Re: double standards, go over to see my answers to April's questions.

I rest my case on the white box of death issue.

Well, I'd like think we're all allowed to discuss our personal visions of what SL should be. I really do encourage you to post yours.

I'm kind of getting tired of the Blaze / Prok show, personally. I wouldn't mind hearing some alternative ideas that invalidate mine.

I'm going to reply to this in your style.

Obviously, you were droppped on your head at birth, so that is what makes you incapable of seeing yourself. Likewise your school years were rough too, being beat up every day for being a squealer and a rat must have been traumatic, so therefore you are unable to see you make a hypocrite of yourself every post.

You seem to be a zealot for "ugly builds" This is probably because you are ashamed to look at your own pizza face every day, so you would have first hand experience at what real ugly is. You must be limpdick too, because normal people would be out getting laid instead of sitting in front of a computer everyday, trying to win the internet by preaching to about 5% of one of the lowest populated mmorpg servers.


There...that make you feel better...I doubt it, but yet thats how you talk to anyone that disagrees with you and your wifebeater mentality. You don't fool me for one second.

Well you see... that would require there to be a premise worth responding to in the first place. Of course SL is full of amatuer content. That's the whole point of it in the first place. This thread is like complaining that grilled cheese doesn't have coconut, or that airplanes make bad submarines.

Yeah, but Chip, Wikipedia is full of amateur content as well .. and yet it comes off as appearing cohesive and interesting.

If Wikipedia was a collaborative work of fiction it would be a more fair comparison. As it is it's apples and oranges and a silly argument. If you want glitzy high production value content without being exposed to anything below your standards, go play a game that's made that way. That's not SL. That will never be SL. Get used to the idea.

Oh, I dunno.

Darkwood, Boardman, Meins, and NBerg have pretty good production value.

Are you suggesting that LL vet content and only allow things beyond a certain skill level to appear in world... fundamentally destroying the real time collaborative creative outlet it was designed to be?

No, I suggest they improve their zoning tools so that the more sophisticated content developers among us can more easily take on leadership roles.

You assume we want leadership.

no no, I assume you need leadership.

You assume with a great deal of arrogance and presumptiveness.

And you asume wrongly.

*Ursa reads this thread when a tune starts running through the lines... "I love a parade!"

Well, that's the debate.

As to my arrogance and presumptiveness, it's no more arrogant and presumptive than you telling me I am wrong (or right!) without an argument based on evidence or at least logic.

My argument was that people generally accept that SL is full of amateur content (evidence: do a search on "ugly build" "eyesore" etc..).

Leadership has lead Boardman, DarkWood, Meins, NBerg to have production level content (evidence: no negative, but many positive opinions of this content)

Therefore leadership leads to production level content in a virtual world full of amateur content.

What is your evidence? What is your argument? Or do you merely wish to presume without having one?

Nah.

Telling people they need you to lead them in order to get anywhere is far more arrogant and presumptive, by definition, than people telling you they don't need any such thing.

But fine. You want evidence?

We're still here three years later, and we keep growing. All without your leadership.

You presumed in a rather arrogant way that I was refering to myself as the leader. I did not do this at any time.

And we are barely here. 'We' are not profitable. IE: this is a charity in its current form.

Yes, we are still here. But we are here with constant complaining that much of the content is often 'griefing' in nature.

Granted.

Who would you propose though?

Can you think of anyone that everyone is going to agree on?

I cant.

And I won't follow someone I don't agree with in a game. And I suspect very few others will, either.




Cite exact numbers, please, or don't make the claim.




Such is the tradeoff for freedom.

I'll take freedom over tyrany, thanks.