Prok is right. SL is a dog's breakfast. Why do people argue with this?

I find it surprising that people are getting all riled up when Prok points out the obvious.

Try flying anywhere in SL and you'll see what we all see - It's a mish mash of amateur user content.

Arguing with Prok is just another example of people who've been around for awhile and think because that's the way it was then that's the way it should be.

The fact is, we're all wrong. We need to seek out new people and new ideas to get this party rolling.

yeah, us newbies are just a rabble, barbarians obliterating once glorious Rome....

Oh noes, amateur content.

Not everyone is a professional game designer with access to Poser, Photoshop, programming knowledge, and Extensive 3d modelling skills. Unlike yourself, I'm sure; after all, you wouldn't be complaining about these poor, wretched "amateurs" if you were one yourself, would you?




Starting flame wars based on paranoid ramblings about some non-existent, shadowy government group in SL on almost every thread is not a constructive debate.

Wild, inflammatory accusations and ad hominem attacks on members of this community does not get your point across.

Double-standard arguments ("I can build what I want on my land, but you can't do anything on yours" doesn't make the world ripe for change.



Uh, a year ago it was less than half that number. The year before that, perhaps 1000 people played SL. Yes, it's "the way it always was". Or not.



So let's muzzle some of the more hyperbolic members of the community to prevent the newbies from being silenced with their venemous rhetoric.

LF

I think LF you and I (and Prok) have a lot more in common than you'd think.

The big difference between you and Prok and I is that we're not afraid to make a fool of ourselves.

Are you insinuating that the last 4-5 months of prok's constant diatribes against the FIC and so on are merely sarcastic jabbings at the community?

I don't buy it; no one would write novellas full of content for a running inside joke.

If that's not what you mean, pretend I'm a moron (not hard for folks to do, I assure you) and elaborate.

LF

And you excel at it!

It's like Anshe said - we are all Inner Feted Core.

I've met Prok in world. He wants the same things that you and I want: a successful and compelling metaverse.

His claim (and others) that a new continent is being opened to so much hype and fanfare and yet it's just going to be another prim garbage dump is a completely valid one. Who here among us really disagrees with this premise?

We need new ideas and new people and we need significant change so that SL starts to converge towards something with more synergy and harmony. I've said what they should be a 100 times, only to be shot down constantly by FIC and unFIC, so I won't bother anymore.

I will however encourage Prok because his complaints are completely valid. I will also encourage him because he gets the discussion going. We need to get the discussion going.

I think that statement really represents you well.

I might agree with that premise.

But then Prokofy shoots himself in both legs with his looney rhetoric, his glaringly inconsistent logic, his blatant hypocrisy and baiting temper, his overwheening attitudes, and his debatable ideas about building and landscaping.

Who among us would find it easy to be associated with premises he tries to "own" after that sort of behavior? Except you, blaze.

Ahah, like he's the only one who does that around here? Oh please!

My suggestion is just to ignore it and stick the to facts.

If he does (like everyone around here does) get personal, than a simple gentle reminder that it's not good cricket should be sufficient.

And I'd agree with you here, too. And I'd even admit that occasionally I've indulged in a Prokofy-ism myself.

However, it's a question of degree. You can ignore many of us because we don't constantly shove it down your throat. Prokofy? It's his modus operandi.

It's real simple. The main problem is not his ideas or POV's. The main problem is his blitzkrieg-of-the-jackal approach.

I represents my feelings exactly. Fancy that.

Exactly.....his point is invalidated when he pisses on himself.

How is this gentle encouragement? Do you really think this is going to get anyone here to argue in a more thoughtful way?

Most everyone is capable of thoughtful debate. Prok is the one who derails his own thread with contempt, attacks and general asshattedness.

Weedy, I gently encourage you to consider sticking to the facts rather than the individuals.

D'ya think maybe the reason that SL is a 'dog's breakfast' of amateur content might be because the majority of the users are amateur artists and creators? That maybe people are just going to do what they want to do, because that's why they came here in the first place? oO

blaze, check the title of the thread.


Prok is right. SL is a dog's breakfast. Why do people argue with this

Cross,

Yes, but I believe things can be changed in SL such that when people build and contribute they can do in a way that doesn't make SL look worse, instead it will make it look better.

Check wikipedia - this is written by thousands of amateur writers. And yet, the result is quite impressive.

SL is impressively chaotic, I will give it that.

SL is doing just fine. Sure, it's not perfect. But they don't react in kneejerk ways just because a few asshats post a hundred times a day for lack of a real life. Most of the problems don't really exist, they are merely perceived as being so.

But I suppose telling someone they are losers, premenstrual, a queen, pathetic and eternally unhappy is productive? And defending one build while critisizing another one that has much more detail and craftmanship is logical?

Are you really serious blaze or are you playing Devil's Advocate here?

Well, I advocate Prok's ideas, not necessarily his sometimes off the rails approach to discourse.

However, he certainly isn't alone in that. Everyone here does it and I don't even blame people any more when they do it.

If Chip were to post a thoughtful premise and back it up with evidence, I'd happily engage him even though he has consistently made the error of personalizing the issues.

The fact is, I've done (and continue to do it) as well. So, I certainly am not going to be casting any stones around here..

You don't get it do you?

Builds not on your land, ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.PERIOD!

Who in the hell do you think you and your self-rightous zealots are? You dish it it out, but can't take it. You behave like children and go on and on about NOTHING.

Put yourself out of your misery.

When you can't debate a point effectively, you can always resort to personalizing it.

Anyhow, I just did a search on "eyesore" and "ugly" in the forum search. I think you'll find quite a few people agree with Prok & I about the state of things.

blaze, I'm trying to get the gist of this thread and your motivation for writing it. I think you are trying to say that we won't get more people to join because SL is not attractive enough. that Prok's goal is to make SL more attractive and people opposing Prok's viewpoint are helping to make SL less attractive. And by doing so SL will fail to gain new people.

Is this right?

If so, I'm not sure I would agree on that premise. I think it might be the other way around. If too many restrictions are placed on people's ability to explore creativity, it might make some not as likely to try SL. If new people didn't get the chance to make ugly builds, they might never make good ones. But of course interpretations of good builds are so subjective, setting any kind of standard would be almost impossible.

Perhaps the motto, Your World, Your Imagination leads more people to explore and experiment.

If people really want square boxes of orderly homes, I think they would be more comfortable in a less free environment game like SL and would most likely gravitate towards a TSO type of game.

Okay, so I gave you proper discourse.