We need THREE types of Sim ? Rationale and suggestion

So the purpose of this would be to keep land prices high?
Why?

Oh, I don't think it would keep the land prices high it would just keep them stable.

Stability is important in any economy.

It creates predictability. People who plan need to know that things aren't going to radically change in a way that all their plans will be disrupted.

Also, if prices *are* too high then the Lindens could just auction off more sims. If they don't think the prices are too high, then they slow the auctioning process down.

To make sure that Anshe's land on the mainland doesn't keep losing value from her own purchase of the island sims? So she doesn't have to slice any more prices at telehubs and sell off telehub land?

To make sure that Lindar's holdings don't devalue?

To make sure that you can't compete with them by buying and selling private islands and renting them at a good price?

Oh, he can still buy and sell sims. Where'd you get the idea that he can't?

Who would be pissed if land prices dropped exactly? I mean I can see land barons getting made.. but I believe the majority of players would like cheaper easier to get land.

I just do not think we need to stiffle competition in land at a time when the players are loudly asking for zoning, governments, controlled themed sims. Not to mention as soon as you stiffle one part of free enterprise it opens up a sea of floodgates to stiffle others.

Well, no one really said to stifle, just that the Linden's shouldn't lose control.

Right now, anyone who wants a sim can get one.

Linden's need to be able to reserve the right not to hand them all out like m&ms in case the market takes a dive.

But, if you don't believe, go poll *random* land owners and ask them if they'd mind if when they went to sell their parcel they could only get 50% of what they paid.

If you come back with even 30% saying that'd be OK I'll concede you have a point.

Somehow, unless you focus solely on the feted few, you'll be lucky to get 5% that say that'd be OK.

Im more curious about the affect of Anshe on the economy. And no this isnt a post for or against her. But if one person had the largest effect on land prices it would be Anshe. What would land prices be now if Anshe didnt bid in almost every auction assuring that it would at least reach a predetermined amount? About half the auctions I view are Anshe and one other bidding against each other until the end (the end of bidding for Anshe is Im sure a predetermined amount, not emotion). So what if Anshe took a break? Would those auctions end at a much lower price? Sure auctions are only part of the land equation but the price auction land is aquired at usually is reflected in the initial resale value. I wonder if someone at LL has a spreadsheet of how much Anshe has made them indirectly with simply auctions she didnt win but was solely competing with a single other bidder and driving up the price. I think its a double edge sword for land owners when thinking about Anshe's effect on the economy. Those that want land simply for residence are going to pay higher while those that resell land should thank Anshe for helping keep the prices high as the economy permits.

I don't understand why you think I am opposed to these new zoned communities under one persons control, Jesse. Quite the opposite is true.

The proposal to auction them is Anshe's , not mine.

The crux of the matter, as Blaze says, is that now (suddenly, by accident) they are competing in the land resale market, the rate at which they arrive must be controlled. The lindens have told us that this method of control is their principle means of balancing the economy and keeping exchange rate and land prices stable. Trust me, you may not see why, but this matters.

Once you limit the supply, you must allocate them to people fairly. Thats why they should be auctioned. Its all completely logical if you think calmly and clearly.

Talking of thinking, Jesse, I am puzzled to see you wish to guide others on how to act and think. eg
"You should never purchase land thinking you are going to be able to sell it for more later.. ".

Should ? Who says, Jesse? Maybe you'd better explain this to Anshe ?

If Anshe has damaged her own business by releasing too many private islands then I'm merely amused. She doesn't need the Lindens to protect her from herself.

Maybe some of you need to get out of the landownership is lucrative mindset.

If the point of the land is to get the most use from the least linden $ then rent.

Owning land also really restricts you. If you rent you can just move.

Yes, price being a factor of supply and demand then if you decrease the demand you are likely to decrease the price.

Is that all you were trying to say or was there more?

You are right, let me restate that.. I would never purchase land assuming I will make more out of it then I put into it

I think I might have misread the auction part though.. I was under the impression (mis-impression) that all sims should be auctioned off and have the ability to have subdeviding turned off even for single estate owners.

If single estate owners can still purchase, at will, their private sims with the ability to still subdevide the land, there are valid non-comercial reasons for this, then I did read it wrong and I apologize for that.

You know I have to be careful not to imply anything negative, but you dont get to own half SL without being thoughtful and subtle. There are undercurrents here that are easily missed.

Who realised the significance of the new deeding facility?
Who risked gambling on the big purchase, rather than "toe in the water" ?
Who just now told us prices are dropping as a result - thus warning us all that further supply needs limiting immediately?
Who just now suggested the auctioning, instead of the fixed price?
Who got 13 sims through at fixed low price before all this was realised ?

Who, if this comes to pass, has outmanouevred the opposition completely out of sight ?

"Hats off" might be in order.

Only one of many possible viewpoints. It might all be accident and blind luck.
Not criticism. Admiration.

Yay, Jesse, thats IT. I want to dream of a nice fixed price private island one day. I want em back how they were. And I want the new thing to succeed too.

I could kiss you, you just proved this is an actual discussion.

Another solution to all this is just to slowly walk the prices down, giving everyone time to adjust.

Hhmm Lindar germs.... lol *wink*

I beleive the market will find it's own value. I see no need for LL to reduce the normal rate of sim release, or create a new class of sims.


Mainland will always have value for many obvious l reasons. I beleive it will actually increase in value as SL improves. I think whatever the mystical new land/new user ratio LL has used so far, works quite well. The introduction of a massive amount of rental sims will have an effect, but not not catastrophic to LL or the general SL population in my opinion.


If the rental market becomes saturated, it will force the owners to create a better product so as to lure customers away from their competition. I see that as a good thing. The best one's will succeeed. The other's will fail.

Why on earth would anyone buy land on the mainland grid if you can

a) Get land for free (just pay tier, no upfront cost)
b) Move onto land which is devoid of w-hat griefing types.

Demand for mainland will vanish and people will have to accept much lower prices for their parcels than they paid for.

I think you'll find a lot of people will be rather unhappy at that prospect.

There will always be those that do not wish to deal through a third party, regardless of the deal. I am willing to bet the majority of people do not wish to deal this way.

Grouped land tier does not work on islands, just mainland.

There is no land for the landless on private islands.

There is no discount for whole sim tier if you rent.

You get very little incidental traffic on an island, you need to get people there.

I say these things not at all to knock islands or rental of island parcels. I rent islands and subdivided plots, and have for several months now. I just think the rental market will never totally kill the value of traditional grid land sales.

Disregard any of my postings on this matter if LL actually decides to implement a plan to auction private sims, just give me 2 weeks notice. I will run out and buy 50 sims.

ok, good points.

However, I do think it'll put a dent in the demand and depress the prices enough to make people squeal.

Let free market decide what will happen.

Period.

I'd be perfectly happy if the mainland land barons took a plunge. I'm all for the private sim ones (Even if I would personaly not buy from them, I like what they are doing conceptually), but I view mainland land barons as the SL equivilant of domain squatters.

This, prok, since you asked before, is my stance on land barons. Land barons, per say, are domain squatters. I have no use for them. At all. I think they are parasites that bring nothing to the game. Land developers, such as yourself, that's another story entierly.

The whole reason the private sim land market is taking off is people are sick of paying land barons yet more money for land that may turn out to be a sinkhole three days later.

As for the whole "protecting everyone" whos land is now not going to be "worth as much"... Tough. Markets fall all the time. Do you think if you buy stock in a company there is some promise that it will never be worth less than you bought it? No. A new product can enter the market and completly shatter the existing market, making the stock of all of it's competitors plumet. You can loose your ass that way. Such are the risks of buying in a fluctuating market.

Very true. These are just some of the reasons I would never sub-lease land on a private island.

Well, just wait until Meta-Adverse comes to a neighbourhood near you.

Pfffft. I think MetaAdverse is kinda a cool concept. What about it?

Heh well it's all fun and games until someone puts up a jumbo billboard next to your parcel.

I've got one out the window of my apartment IRL...