SL is too unstable to invest in

Well yes, SL is a game, not an investment.

SL has huge potential as virtual entertainment, but if it is to be an investment, they should abolish the linden and set prices in dollars, and allow use of real names so that the rule of law could be implemented with respect to contracts and obligations.

Problem is that such a course would make SL too much like the real world, and not escapist entertainment. SL is a wonderful thing, as long as you don't beleive you have the right to make money off it, and the right to have the linden valued at $250L to 1$US.

Sometimes I really don't believe the nerve people have to come and post things like the one i've quoted above... the last paragraph "SL is a wonderful thing, as long as you don't beleive you have the right to make money off it, and the right to have the linden valued at $250L to 1$US."

Do you think that someone is going to sit around and write scripts for hours and days to design games, clothing, and you name it, for free? For most people, probably not. If it is going to take hours or even days to build something, there needs to be an incentive. SL has the perfect incentive and that is that you can sell your items for Lindens and then convert it to $USD and put it into your bank account! You can run your own business!

I don't know why you're in the land and economy forum, same with anyone who is trying to say "SL is a game". Last time I checked, this was a "land and economy forum" not a "general discussion".

What all the n00bies don't understand is that if you took away ingame currency that could be converted to RL money, if you took away rights to make money off of SL, and if the market continues to go the way it does, SL will die. Who wants to spend time making and giving away things that they've made for free? Some might but others take pride and value in the work they make and also like to see potential profit from it. Try telling Anshe Chung or Games Prototype that they don't have the right to make money off of SL? Whose going to pay $1000's USD to buy sims if they aren't going to make money, especially when we have to pay high land tier prices.

Well... yeah... they do it all the time.




NO ONE has the RIGHT to make money off this game. I didnt see that in the fine print. I didnt see it in in government's bill of rights.

What YOU dont seem to understand is we are not all in this game to make money. We're here for fun, escapism, you name it. I make things and sell them for free. I make other things and sell them for a small amount.

If LL would stop believing the slogan was "Your imagination, Our profit" and stop putting out press releases making people believe they could make money the fast and easy way...

I'd love to see the math behind such claims. Any running profitable business in SL that does not rely heavily on land should be still profitable regardless of the current L$ rate. I don't take into account landbarons because it requires continuous huge US$ investments and hence you may be affected if your margins are low and you get paid in L$.

Lots of people actually do things for fun - not to make money. It's a pity there aren't more of us around. I'm building a second Laserquest arena - because I want to. Not because I have to, but to give an additional entertainment option to my visitors. What's so wrong with doing things for the common good instead of selfish motives?



The thing is... nobody is forcing them to spend thousands of dollars a month, it's their choice - not part of the requirement. I have a 4096 tier by choice - I could have stayed at 2048 but chose to upgrade because of plans I have. I don't make back each month anywhere near what it costs me - but that's because of the way I play. How many other people play WoW or any other online game with the sole thought of making a profit?

The fundamental advertising tactic that LL promote of 'make thousands of dollars' is an outright LIE. If only they would change it, then we might see SL growing, instead of stagnating like it is. When the playerbase increases 4x in 6 months but logged in players remain constant, something is clearly wrong.

Why? Because people are coming here thinking of making easy money, concentrate on making stuff to sell, realise it doesn't, and give up after maybe a month or so. Getting people here is no problem, retaining them is a problem - and one that LL don't seem willing to acknowledge or deal with.

Lewis

it looks great too Lewis! Have you done much else to it?






from now on ill just wait for you to reply, you say what I want to say much better

To be honest, people who enter a market they have no experience with and give up after a month because they havn't become rich don't have any idea how running a business works. I agree there is a retention problem, I don't think the lack of guaranteed thousands of real dollars to people selling stuff is the cause though.

Question... Who made the content in WoW? Why is it so fun? We're the designers paid? I bet they were!


So basicaly a group of people got together under the selfish guise of capitalism and made a product which provides hours of entertainment for millions of people. Some small percentage of those players are actually making millions of dollars off of the Warcraft currency...



Now why do 7 million people play WoW? I bet you it's because some very talented people were paid A LOT of money to make a very high quality product. Do you think WoW would be as good if it was a freebie? If it was put together by hobyists who just wanted to "give their crap away for free?"

I could give a rats ass about some freebie junk that people make in SL. The place is so saturated in garbage prims, lame scripts, and unoriginal noises allready... (no offense intended towards anyone in this thread btw, just my observation of general SL) I want to see professional content, engaging content - content that is worth paying for.

There is room for everyone in this matter. The hobyists and freebie enthusiasts have no reason whatsoever to have an issue with professionals who come here to be professional.

There's a line in the sand.... On the one side are the amateurs, and on the other are the pros. Where are ya?


Now, if you want SL to be "Amateur Hour" with nothing but the random and chaotic offerings of many "bedroom designers" then that's fine.... but that's an incredibly limited perspective considering the potential of this platform. Linden Labs sees this, and that's why they are pushing the "make money in SL" angle. It's not for the mom and pop prim pushers or the kids trying to pay their college bills, it's to get startup companies to build products/services/games that use the SL platform.

*gets on PA system* "Hey designers/content creators, you can stop making things and giving them away for free! Sorry, someone thats been here for a few months has just made me realize that everything you give away for free is CRAP! I cant believe Ive actually used free textures to make buildings and presents for friends. I didnt realize that really awesome fireplace I just passed on to a friend was CRAP. I wasn't aware that the gadgets and gizmos I use every day I got at Yadni's were CRAP! Speaking of, Yadni Im sorry, I didnt realize that the service you provide to noobs and oldies alike was CRAP, so please sell your land and stop giving away CRAP!"

See, you old-school SL'rs are such brats you can't even see the truth. I hear stuff like "we created SL, so don't come in and ruin it." Sorry, but the invasion has only begun.

Lots of the freebies at the junkyard are fugly junk, but they help people see the potential of the platform. That's the whole point. To see the potential, not to limit it. You don't need an incredibly beautiful wood texture to realize you can make a treehouse. But to make Laku's Treehouse - you do.


oh and by the way... YadNi is my friend and I pay him as a professional employee of my company. I don't use the Linden to pay my employees because its waaaaay too unstable. However, paying YadNi (in france) with the US Dollar is almost as bad right now as using the Linden!

Oh I see the truth plain as day... even though its the middle of the night and im exhausted.

I will admit to having some issues with the junkyard (opening a box of 2000 items anyone?). But the truth is... i have found numerous, countless, an amazing amount of freebies around SL that I use every day.

Do you really want SLers to stop providing freebies?

The truth is out there!

oh sorry youve gone and edited, let me quote you in full.
I for one have never claimed to CREATE SL... just cause my rezday is earlier than yours I dont claim to be an old schooler... though I definitely claim to be a brat!

I will take issue with you on the textures, Ive found some astounding free textures, all you have to do is look.

How was this for derailment, did we crash the thread yet?

Is this FoxNews?? Did anyone say anything about stopping freebies?? No.... The thread is titled "SL is too unstable to invest in" and the thread hijackers have come in and tried to say that nobody should invest in SL. That people looking at SL as an investment are ruining it.


O RLY??


Last I checked... The coolest places in SL all required quite a bit of development costs and maintenance costs. Some of those places profit, others barely break even.

For SL to grow, there needs to be more and more content. Not just "items" but entire sim nations and themed universes, games, tie-ins with commercial products, etc. etc.

Freebies are fine, but highly motivated and creative capitalists would bring some really awesome stuff to this place.

I've been here 7 months. Hardly 'old school'. Why does the notion that you can do good without making a profit scare you so much?



Don't forget that a lot of the stuff that you pay for actually isn't that great either. I bought some clothing recently that looked ok on the model picture, but when I applied it to my shape, it just didn't look right. Free doesn't automatically mean crap any more than a price automatically means quality.

Lewis

Those are the very same people that I feel have ruined the game.

There is actually nothing that a professional can do any more than an amateur in SL because we all have exactly the same tools to use. The only difference is the skill of the human - and frankly given some of the 'professional' builds I have seen in-game I would wonder about their skills.

Lewis

Well, there you go with your whole "game" comment again.... I suppose there's no changing perspectives when we're living on different planets.

guh?





So youre saying that a lot of the coolest places in sl are free, cost a lot, and are in danger of being extinct? Just tryin to clarify there.



You want to hear awesome? I joined an ALIFE project today (err yesterday), the land was donated, time effort scripts etc all donated. These people are in it for fun and entertainment, not to make a quick buck.

Thats what this game should be. Let people come to try to invest or start a business and make money, Im all for it. The quality speaks for itself. In a month we will see who is still around trying to make that quick buck and who is here for the game itself.

I'm on Earth. Where are you?

Lewis

OK, it's your forum to troll, I'll be moving along.... Have fun with your "game", I'll continue building with my "platform".

*shakes her head* Lewis, Lewis, Lewis; obviously youre from a planet where the inhabitants believe that SL is a game, a place for enjoyment and fun and to the devil with profit.

I have fun everywhere but the forums - these places are like the gutters of the internet - collecting the soap scum from the back of our brains and wiping it all over the screen like what we say actually has an affect on something

yes but everyone always told me i have my mind in the gutter... and that sharing is caring!

im me in game (so we dont derail the thread anymore). I'd love to hear what some of your fun places in sl are. Im always exploring and looking for new content.

Good grief. I THINK Dakinds original point was that SL would benefit from BOTH AMATEURS & PROFESSIONALS, it was an all-encompassing viewpoint as opposed to some others, allbeit illustrated with an example that SOME amateur content was crap, not ALL.

Lewis, what on earth gives you cause to believe that "creative and motivated" entrepreneurs have "ruined the game" (your words) ?

I highly doubt camping chairs for example are the work of such people, it hardly showcases their talents in creative design & scripting. Don't mistake creative professionals who require some reimbursement for their work with greedy amateurs looking for a quick buck.

In what way could these people impact your game ? You can still make and collect things for free and continue to play just as you always have.

There's quality and rubbish from both amateurs and professionals in the real world as there is in SL. Preventing either party from participating will do nothing to change that. Allowing an environment that supports BOTH simply creates more choice and richness.

You obviously don't particularly care about or need money in SL which is fine, so why do you criticise those that do in order to participate ? LL has clearly stated it wants SL to be seen as a platform, not a game, it seems rather petty of you to be so defensive about the way you use it to the point of objecting about every issue raised by people who participate on different terms.

The attraction of quick bucks in SL is a red herring, we're talking about creative people who can contribute as professionals on terms that should have no effect on you.

Because my experience shows that creative and motivated, when the motivation is purely profit, rarely go together.



Because the capitalists are manipulating the currency market, constantly complaining that the amount of L$ to the $ is too high, and only wanting one side of the free market. Plus of course the land barons set the price of the land that everyone else has to follow - if you place a plot of land for anything more than slightly less than their price, they'll just snap it up, increase the price, and put it back for sale. That sort of thing affects every single player, because if you want to buy land or cash you have no alternatives than 'their ways'.



Agreed - yet the provision of free content is met with contempt and scorn by many because it undermines their ability to sell inferior products at a cost.



But I do. I wanted a particular item for a project I am working on, and although I could have spent the next 3 days swearing at LSL whilst I fudged my way through its complexities, I simply found what I wanted and bought it for L$150. Not much, sure, but every little helps someone, right?



If the attraction of a quick buck is a red herring, why do LL promote it so heavily in their advertising to pretty much the exclusion of everything else?

Lewis

You can make thousands in SL, i'm sorry that you haven't. Of course I had to learn how the SL market worked but in the end you find ways to make money. It isn't a flat out lie, it's common sense that if you're a fu(|(ing idiot and have no idea how to run a business, then you're not going to make money in SL. If you have an idea of how a business works, if you have a product to sell, and if you have the means to make the product, then of course your going to make money, so long as your idea is popular and isn't a rip off of someone elses, and if it is a rip off then it should be better then the original.

I am majoring in computer science so I can code very well, do you know how i've paid for my education so far? SL! Thank you second life for providing the means for me to support myself. Now if they weren't getting all stupid with the market, I wouldn't be so worried about cash flow.

One thing though, there is always going to be a division between those who think SL should be used to make money and those who think it shouldn't. The only sad part is that those who think SL shouldn't be used to make money have been misinformed because ever since I've joined SL, all i've seen, read, and heard about is how SL is a great tool to make money (which it is!).