we need to do something..

I was here before the was $$$ - and I will be here after there is $$$... I know many others who are much the same.

It's NICE to get some money - but I think the addition of real money has seen a DECREASE in quality stuff and an increase in 'crapfactories' - get it out the door and get them $$$ quick!

Also caused a massive increase in 'gaming the systems'

I think without it the nature will change - but I don't think it will fall apart at the seams.

I respect your opinion, but although I agree that there might have been an increase in "crapfactiories," I think you are exagerating a bit when you say there has been a decrease in quality stuff.

Do you mean to tell me that skins, clothes, hair, shoes, <insert merchandise here> etc were better in 2003, or even a few months ago, than they are today?

Let's not get carried away in an effort to make a point.



This I agree with wholeheartedly.



We'll see.

There was nothing quite like SL out there before, and now that SL has evolved there IS nothing out there quite like it. So, these are different times and can't be compared to the past.

IMHO, people just wont arbitrarily leave but once competition surfaces, and it inevitably will, if LL isn't in a strong position of advantage, the overwhelming majority will leave.

Including you

even if it hasn't.. 1 mil a day times 7 days a week = 7 million..

using the information we have and conservative estimates

As far as content greators going if the exchange rate drops too much? Quickly replaced.. and the ones who do it for arts sake will stay. In other words your theories seem invalid...

Most likely do to the fact that SL has run out of steam.
Piss poor management of the economy, never ending glut
of land and linden dollars, and that is a receipe for lack
lust new membership. Not to mention the members they
"count" yet they haven't logged in, in months/years.

Population should reflect Active Accounts which have had
activity in the last 30-90 days. Otherwise, they should be
counted as (DEAD) accounts.

I believe the "real" population is more in the realm of
15,000-25,000 active accounts at best...

Second Life is only a game.

Radio is a plaything.

The telephone is a toy.

The average person has no use for a computer.

LCD displays are only good for wrist watches.

Automobiles will never replace horses.

Bows are more reliable then guns.

Who needs this silly wheel thing anyway?

You bloody idiot!

Your first paragraph is pure unsubstantiated bunk.

*LONG* term players may choose to go because of economic
issues, but short term players and tourists? You really think
they actually care?

Basic accounts do get culled for inactivity, quite regularly.
You can bet that if a player is still around after a year of
inactivity it's because they're still making premium payments.
(there may be a handful of 'special exceptions' but the
number would be insignificant)

Should LL declare them braindead and pull the plug?
(and throw away revenue? Not hardly!)

Anyway. *Long term* player retention might be affected
by the 'state of the economy'... but the number of 'long term'
players is so insignificant compared to the much higher
volumes of short term players and one time tourists that
dominates the 'active population' count.

--
So, do you have a Second Living Will?

Compared to you? Absolutely!

--
Yes, in fact, I do have a have a case of magic wand envy!

Assuming you had 10,000L today and you sold it at 288 thats about (if my math is correct as im very tired) $33 --- now if you kept that money in your second life account and in a few months when it was 350 you spent that 32.70 on linden you would have 11,445 linden. I math might be wrong but i believe its close. You gain in the lindens you can have.

Then if the trends reverse you can buy more lindens and as the value decreases sell them for more money. Either way if you play the system right you can gain. If it is falling value of the linden buy US$ back until it falls further and make more lindens - if it the value of the linden is rising buy more lindens and sell alter for US$... I dont see a problem with either.

It might be a bunch of shit but thats how i look at it.

-JPanther

I was kidding Jops. You're great! I didn't even see your original post.



But now that I got your attention!:

Can you tell me if it's possible to make particles travel from their "target" to the source prim. Rather than the other way?

I came over from SWG where everyone paid and no one made any RL money to create and yes, people still created content. We created because it was fun to create.

There wouldn't be as much user created content as there is now if there was no rl money involved.

I am saying that if you took a look at the things in world and said x% is quality and y% is crap (of course there is the old 90% of everything is crap argument..) you would find that before you could exchange money x was greater than y.



You don't know me very well then.

If I leave it won't be because of a penny anny economy model or an exchange of game money to real money.

It will be because of a feature set that is greater and allows me to do more than I can here.

I was here before you could make bucks - for me that wasn't the draw. It's not what brought me here, nor will it be what will make me leave.

No, but there would be some lovely builds made just for the art of it..which is better than stuff made just to sell.

The fact is that everyone is right.

There were quality builds before an economy and there will be without one.

But Linden Lab has put themselves in a position, I think, where their own survival depends on an economy.

And if Linden Lab fails, then it really doesn't matter much if people are still around to build beautiful things.

I don't know, this whole discussion just strikes me as absurd.

Why do you repeatedly post these weak responses Loniki?

Do you do it just to throw dookie up against the wall to see if it sticks?

SWG developers create the content for SWG, not the player base. It doesn't say anything on their website about players creating content other than crafting predetermined items. That is not creating content. The suposed "content" that you think you created was already created by SWG developers and placed in the game before the game was even shipped. All you are doing is gathering items and pressing buttons.

That's a big difference from SL were the players actually develop the game by utilizing their own skills, training and talent to create literally everything you see in-world. There's a huge difference there.

Sorry I had to be the one to break that to you.

The fact is that everyone is wrong.



And SL was such a small place.



Not possible anymore,35-40% of tier paying people's tier payments depend on economy atm. Over 310-320L$/usd rates, buying auction sims to resell will be meaningless for me. Who will buy $1000 sims just for fun? At most 50 of 10000 residents.Today at least 4000 different residents have land to live, because there is an economy. Because some people can buy $1000 sims and RESELL them VIA L$ to make USD profit. If L$ looses its value, land business will die. Like or not, land barons are bringing lands for you to SL. SL land means economy. SL is big now you cant compare it with SL at 2003 or 2004. SL cant be as small as like 2003 or 2004, SL will continue to be big and/or bigger or will die. If 50% of residents will have worthless L$ to pay USD tier, who will maintain 1000s of servers? you "just for fun" callers?

Imagine for a second one announced that L$ worths 0 USD today. And all lands are free.
1-> Me and many others will abandon their lands, because without resell we cant pay tier.
2-> 80% of mainland will be governor linden land, 100s of servers. And nobody is paying tier for them. LL will have to shutdown servers because no money for maintainence.
Only two steps and SL is dead.
If one announces that there will be no economy in SL and
L$ worths 0 USD TODAY, SL dies TOMORROW for sure.
"Devaluation of L$ is dangerous or not" is the most stupid discussion i have ever heard. LL also knows that devaluation is dangerous BUT there is a big economical question in world too:
Which costs for more?
-> living with devaluation OR
-> trying to stop the devaluation

For Real Countries stopping the devaluation really costs ALOT because they dont have all the economic controls. But LL has. LL can easily find a way.

See!? I AM a bloody idiot... I was trying to hoping to guilt you into sending me one of your magic wants as an apology for your faux jibe... and it didn't work! (Drat drat drat.)

There is a way to do what you seek with particles but the method is limited to 50m, involves llDarkMagic() so scaldingly evil that I'll message you in game with an approach that might do what you seek. To utter such a kludge in public might result such an upheaval as to risk that Jonas and RBD actually coming to an agreement on something! (we would starve for drama!)
--------------------------------------------------
Land and Economy... um. What are we going to do about this R.. erm, I mean 'Bagel'?

Just to make sure that there's enough Land/Economy/LindeX content in this post to protect it from a rezmod reassigning it to a new thread: Did you know that the approximate amount of US$ revenue generated for LL due to the LindeX sellers fees is just barely enough for one non-management white-collar fulltime headcount with a college degree and approximately 2 years of work experience in a technical field?

You want LL to invest more effort into the exchange rate and the LindeX? Find more people to buy L$'s.
--------------------------------------------------



--
St. Vidicon of Cathode pray for us...

So, basically, here we have people who believe the supply of L$ is decreasing, and people who believe it is increasing, who each have their own numbers and don't believe in the other clan's numbers.

Operative word is believe Cult clash ! Onward, faith soldiers !

May I argue that if you want L$ to have more value, you just have to put more value in the content that L$ buy ?

Anyway my definitive opinion is that bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.

You are so wrong, no matter where you put it to sell, it is not loosing its value because we put it for sale for lower values. It never happen so, it is loosing value because there is more sellers than buyers.
If SL population(the ones spending USD to buy L$) is increasing as fast as L$ stock in the world, L$ buyers' total L$ buy request amount should be same as L$ sellers' total L sell request amount. At least the difference between these two team shouldnt increase everyday. Even a little increasing at this difference could be acceptable. But there is a big gap and increasing alot everyday:
(GMT)
Time>-----------------------Lindex L$ stock over the rate 250L$/usd-----Lowest L$ exc. rate
march-08: 15:00(GMT)------------------26676598------------------------------------279
march-09: 16:29(GMT)------------------27171853------------------------------------279
march-10: 13:22(GMT)------------------27578312------------------------------------280
march-13: 14.05(GMT)------------------27975892------------------------------------280
march-14: 17:49(GMT)------------------28286899------------------------------------282
march-15: 17:28(GMT)------------------27808106----------------------------------- 281
march-16: 16:42(GMT)------------------28256826------------------------------------282
march-17: 15:21(GMT)------------------28234515------------------------------------281
march-19: 15:09(GMT)------------------30064421------------------------------------282
march-20: 14:41(GMT)------------------32049378------------------------------------286

This is really not good. 32 million L$ waiting to sell for less than 250L$/usd. And this amount increased 5.372.780 in less than 12 days. This is not the total sell request, this is only the difference between sellers and buyers. this means like some people wanted to sell 35-40 million in 12 days and 5.3 million couldnt be sold. This means 15% of L$ sell requests are not selling. And to sell this amount people are lowering the exchange rate. And this 15% is increasing everyday, over 5 million in 12 days-> over 12 million in a month. This 12 million is totally extra in the market. No resident can stop or force this devaluation(SELL FOR LOWER/HIGHER calls are meaningless.). This can be explained only by mismanagement of the economy. LL has the power which no goverment has. They should be easily managing the economy.


It is clear that there are two ways
1-> LL will be included in the market, like a federal reserve bank. actually this choice brings BIG risks.And must be managed VERY carefully.
2-> LL will choose to not be included in the market, then LL must calculate their monthly L$ income from SL(L$ land auctions, texture uploads, etc) and L$ outcome to SL(stipend base, awards etc) carefullly and they must lower monthly outcome-income difference by 12 millionL$, in one way or another.

lowering L$100 weekly from 10000 primary accounts' weekly stipend can lower this difference by 4 millionL$,but i know lowering primary residents' weekly wage cant be done.i am not sure if it helps to increase "upload texture" price to L$20. I dont have the data (i wish to have)which LL has.

What if they dont care about L$ devaluation?
-> devaluation always brings enflation, high prices, less buyers.
-> Traffic bonus and stippend base will be meaningless(stipend base defenders will notice then while defending high stipend bases, they were actually killing the stipend base.At current rate, L$500 stipend worths US$1.66, At 250L$/usd L$430 worths same)
-> After a time people wont buy auction sims for $1000(i know it is going like 1100-2000 in these days,but high enflation will kill land profit.)
-> with lots of other results business in SL wont be a real business for lots of people. And SL will loose what makes it unique.


BUT
LL has a tendency, they usually wait till they see really BIG results at a situation like this. To solve abuse reports, this can be helpfull, to solve bug reports, this can be helpfull, to take care of tousands of residents' requests, this can be helpfull. But in economy, once they start to see results, it will be unstopable.

Yes i sound like "sky is falling" but 12 million difference between sellers and buyers per month is a bad number.

Good Luck to all business owners.
--
Sorry for my bad english.

LL should stop auctionning small land in US$.
They sell more and more land in US$ and less in L$.

If the economy really need money sink, LL should offer more valuable services in L$ instead of US$.

I dont agree, this helps only a few 100K L$ to economy, we need better solutions.


I agree, LL must find a way to take money from world. They can make an exchange site like slexchange, and take 3% comission like slexchange, to exchange clothes, scripts and others. And this 3% will be deleted from the economy.
Or better solution: buy slexchange, and delete these 3% comission(or 2%) from the SL economy.

hey.. I don't quit when I'm right

And you never quit when you are wrong. This is called the Jonas Effect.
The only known cure is to retake Macroeconomics 101 to realize that
SL premium citizens are not paying for their stipends.

If premium account members dont pay for their stipends, why are the account plans presented thus on the Linden Labs webpage....

http://secondlife.com/whatis/plans.php

Hmm looks like LL say i pay for my stipend.