we need to do something..
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 12:48
From: Patch Lamington Which leaves me wondering how a single res has 40,000 to burn - and why they would sell
at such a significantly lower rate than the current. Someone with a business with a typing problem? Or someone with a currency based business who wants the linden to sink :~
Or just a rich idiot?
Its been surprisingly common for blocks of 30k-40k Lindens to be sold at around 300 to the dollar. I think that when we're seeing 300 per dollar, this is mostly people trying to give a discount to get their L$ gone really fast, and don't realize that they only have to discount L$1, if at all, for it to go really fast. Often you can even price it above the best price and have it go pretty quickly. Not everyone realizes this though. This problem would be completely eliminated by the introduction of L$ buy orders. It is a shame that that, for such a critical feature, it is taking so amazingly long. It's not fair that people should get less money for their game money just because they aren't exactly sure what they're doing, when this could be solved simply and easily by offering a whole market rather than half a market. |
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 12:54
From: ReserveBank Division Remember all those shareholders who got burned during the
.COM bust in 2000/2001?
How many of them sat waiting for the stock to go back up? Only
to end up with nothing...
By July 31st, we might be talking about the Good Old Times
when the L$ was L$280... Cause by then, it might be L$362. Conversely, think of all those people who made cash sufficient to fill ocean freighters shorting those stocks. It's a pity that we can't put up some margin and short the L$.  |
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-20-2006 13:34
From: Shaun Altman Conversely, think of all those people who made cash sufficient to fill ocean freighters shorting those stocks. It's a pity that we can't put up some margin and short the L$. Ohhh God... If I could short, I'd short this baby till the moon. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-20-2006 13:54
From: someone Viewing SL as a game is a very narrow way of looking at it. If that's all you see it as, then you are really missing it's true potential and attraction. I could say the same thing about those who see it as a platform. If its only a platform where you do business or create and sell, then (in my opinion as much as yours was your opinion -and nothing but-) you are really missing out on what SL is and can offer. SL is a game to some, a platform to others. Everyone sees it differently and uses it differently Thats what makes SL the greatest game ever
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-20-2006 14:35
Okay. I've asked the old wise man of the mountain and he says this:
"First, we all have to stop screaming like girls on the forums. Then we must all go make something irresistable that everybody will want to buy. Only then will the L$ will be restored to a nice happy state."
I don't know about you lot. But I think the old guy is lacking oxygen up there on that mountain.
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 15:00
From: ReserveBank Division Ohhh God... If I could short, I'd short this baby till the moon. So would everyone else.. that's the problem.. there'd be nobody left to sell it to |
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-20-2006 15:01
As long as people live off Lindens, there will always be people who have to sell fast. Do you really think the hungry college kid design slut clothes for Avatars is going to hold out on selling L$ when they need to buy books or pizza? Or all the single mommies we read about that have gotten off welfare (or whatever the story is) using SL can afford to wait when the baby needs milk? Expect it to only drop more. I expect it to bottom out at 350 and stay there. Also, I need the L$ to crash so I can afford Starax's wand. $15,000L is my electric bill  |
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Flood Mommsen
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 56
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03-20-2006 15:04
Well, let's say LL really takes stipends away. Basic as well as Premium, or whatever it is called.
People would either start to get jobs, or create content, which they can sell. If they can't create content, because they don't have the necessary software or skill to do so, they gonna find a job. Most jobs, I guess are in Clubs and SLingo-halls. But they can only employ a certain number of people. That would add the problem of unemployment to SL. The possible taking away of this thing called dwell would probably drive away a couple of Clubs, so jobs get even more scarce.
So they get some software somwhere, and learn how to create content. This would add probably in large numbers to the content that is actually buyable, but no one could pay for, because people don't have money, except they buy it at Lindex or something like that. If they start buying there, the price of L$ would probably rise to 250 or even higher, which would be bad, because the economic masterminds in SL would get excactly what they wanted, normal peeps like me would have to pay more, to enjoy this game, and capitalism would have ruined another just fine-working system.
The solution is to change nothing, it is a stupid idea in the first place to make real money out of a game, when you're not writing or selling it.
Well, it might work, but don't bitch if it doesn't.
Before they even think about changing something in the economic system, they should work hard to deliver a at least half stable game, that doesn't crash ever so often.
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 15:07
From: Starax Statosky Okay. I've asked the old wise man of the mountain and he says this:
"First, we all have to stop screaming like girls on the forums. Then we must all go make something irresistable that everybody will want to buy. Only then will the L$ will be restored to a nice happy state."
I don't know about you lot. But I think the old guy is lacking oxygen up there on that mountain. The problem with this is that people go and make something irresistable, and then sell it for L$50 or L$100 so those "poor souls" who are "living on stipend" can afford it LOL. There should be economic incentives for selling content that's priced higher than L$2000. If you price content at L$2001+ and it sells, you should get a 3% or so bonus per copy sold. So in short, I don't know if it's the old guy on the mountain who's lacking oxygen, or the thousands of people who grossly undervalue their work. |
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 15:16
From: Flood Mommsen Well, let's say LL really takes stipends away. Basic as well as Premium, or whatever it is called.
People would either start to get jobs, or create content, which they can sell. If they can't create content, because they don't have the necessary software or skill to do so, they gonna find a job. Most jobs, I guess are in Clubs and SLingo-halls. But they can only employ a certain number of people. That would add the problem of unemployment to SL. The possible taking away of this thing called dwell would probably drive away a couple of Clubs, so jobs get even more scarce.
So they get some software somwhere, and learn how to create content. This would add probably in large numbers to the content that is actually buyable, but no one could pay for, because people don't have money, except they buy it at Lindex or something like that. If they start buying there, the price of L$ would probably rise to 250 or even higher, which would be bad, because the economic masterminds in SL would get excactly what they wanted, normal peeps like me would have to pay more, to enjoy this game, and capitalism would have ruined another just fine-working system.
The solution is to change nothing, it is a stupid idea in the first place to make real money out of a game, when you're not writing or selling it.
Well, it might work, but don't bitch if it doesn't.
Before they even think about changing something in the economic system, they should work hard to deliver a at least half stable game, that doesn't crash ever so often. Most jobs in SL are rediculous. People aren't going to "work" for L$50 or L$100 per hour, unless they're role playing and it's an aspect of the game to them. More likely, most people would go to LindeX, spend $10 or so on a few thousand L$, and be quite happy for quite a while. That said, I don't think taking away stipends is the best way to encourage economic growth. A more realistic price for L$ on the exchange, which is more in-line with the current best price only offered by LL, is almost certainly the way to go for mid-term economic growth. The stipends don't really need to go away unless the economy becomes stagnant. LL encouraging residents to offer the best price on L$, rather than offering the best price themselves, while encouraging residents to offer a MUCH worse price and base in-world content prices on it, would probably go a long way towards ushering in a more fluid economy. |
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kerunix Flan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
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03-20-2006 15:25
So what ?
Imagine i build something EVERYBODY want, and it's expensive, ppl will buy L$ on LindeX.
Now i have all thoses nice L$ ... what could i do with it ? I'll sell it on LindeX of course.
You want ppl to buy L$, they will spend the L$.
The L$ will go in another wallet, and the L$ will go back on LindeX.
It's not a solution.
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 15:44
From: kerunix Flan So what ?
Imagine i build something EVERYBODY want, and it's expensive, ppl will buy L$ on LindeX.
Now i have all thoses nice L$ ... what could i do with it ? I'll sell it on LindeX of course.
You want ppl to buy L$, they will spend the L$.
The L$ will go in another wallet, and the L$ will go back on LindeX.
It's not a solution. Let me try to explain the economic impact of people being encouraged to simply value their work. We will use two scenerios. In both of them, I will be the consumer, and you will be the content vendor. In both scenerios, I am a premium account holder, and want 10 of your items each month. Scenerio One: All of your items cost L$250. I buy L$500 on LindeX, add it into my pot which includes L$2,000 worth of stipends given to me for the month, and buy 10 of your items. I've removed L$500 worth of selling pressure from LindeX, and when you show up to sell, you've ADDED L$2,500 worth of selling pressure. Increased selling pressure: 500% Scenerio Two: All of your items cost L$2,500. I buy L$23,000 on LindeX, add it into my pot which includes L$2,000 worth of stipends, and buy 10 of your items. LL gives you a 3% bonus (L$750) for being a major economic contributor thru selling more reasonably priced items. I've removed L$23,000 worth of selling pressure from Lindex, and when you show up to sell, you've ADDED L$25,750 worth of selling pressure. Increased selling pressure: 11%. Maybe via sinks and economic growth, 11% is a balanced figure. Probably not. However, 500% is DEFINATELY not. |
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-20-2006 15:45
From: kerunix Flan So what ?
Imagine i build something EVERYBODY want, and it's expensive, ppl will buy L$ on LindeX.
Now i have all thoses nice L$ ... what could i do with it ? I'll sell it on LindeX of course.
You want ppl to buy L$, they will spend the L$.
The L$ will go in another wallet, and the L$ will go back on LindeX.
It's not a solution. Yeah! You're right! But the wise man says: "As people buy up the L$ to buy your super item. you should sell the L$ at a better rate and this will cause the L$ to be restored back to health. Although it is vital to keep making more delicious items to maintain the strength of the happy L$." I tell you! The old man is just nuts!!! I'm gonna put him in care! |
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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03-20-2006 15:48
From: ReserveBank Division I guess it would be fair to call today, "Black Monday" *rolls eyes* when the $L falls 12% or more in a single day you may call it Black <Day>. Until then you are both wrong and making a public fool of yourself. |
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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03-20-2006 15:50
From: Jon Rolland *rolls eyes* when the $L falls 12% or more in a single day you may call it Black <Day>. Until then you are both wrong and making a public fool of yourself. Another Osterich. |
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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03-20-2006 15:53
From: Jamie Bergman Another Osterich. Osterich? ROFL! I made NO comment on the direction of the L I made specific comment on Black <Day> nonsense. You are also permitted to log out and study history. Bye. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-20-2006 16:48
From: someone Well, let's say LL really takes stipends away. Basic as well as Premium, or whatever it is called.
People would either start to get jobs, or create content, which they can sell. If they can't create content, because they don't have the necessary software or skill to do so, they gonna find a job. Most jobs, I guess are in Clubs and SLingo-halls. But they can only employ a certain number of people. That would add the problem of unemployment to SL. The possible taking away of this thing called dwell would probably drive away a couple of Clubs, so jobs get even more scarce.
So they get some software somwhere, and learn how to create content. This would add probably in large numbers to the content that is actually buyable, but no one could pay for, because people don't have money, except they buy it at Lindex or something like that. If they start buying there, the price of L$ would probably rise to 250 or even higher, which would be bad, because the economic masterminds in SL would get excactly what they wanted, normal peeps like me would have to pay more, to enjoy this game, and capitalism would have ruined another just fine-working system.
The solution is to change nothing, it is a stupid idea in the first place to make real money out of a game, when you're not writing or selling it.
Well, it might work, but don't bitch if it doesn't.
Before they even think about changing something in the economic system, they should work hard to deliver a at least half stable game, that doesn't crash ever so often. They'd also have to cut the cost of premium, or many would drop premium. LL would suffer, maybe bankrupt... Meanwhile this happened, people would stop buying thsoe high priced items..you know how many, like me, come to SL to relax and NOT to have second job. I wouldn't work on SL aside form my shop to be honest, but I may, if they did that start cashing out. With me cashing more out than I put in...
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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03-20-2006 17:03
From: Jonas Pierterson They'd also have to cut the cost of premium, or many would drop premium. LL would suffer, maybe bankrupt...
Meanwhile this happened, people would stop buying thsoe high priced items..you know how many, like me, come to SL to relax and NOT to have second job. I wouldn't work on SL aside form my shop to be honest, but I may, if they did that start cashing out. With me cashing more out than I put in... That would be ok if you cashed out though, because with L$ being more rare and thus in more demand, there will certainly be someone to buy it. I tend to agree with you that cutting stipends is not the BEST way to stimulate the economy, but what YOU would do, and what 15,000 other people would do, are vastly different things. I know I wouldn't cancel premium. I'm a land owner and enjoy my land. Not to mention the fact that I must own land on behalf of Cyberland. Maybe I'm the only one who would stay premium, but I think that your doom and gloom ramblings are highly overrated. Or, have you queried every other premium member besides me? |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-20-2006 17:45
Before I started my store, I'd downgrade to a free account. Now, I won't..not because of LL, but because I won't drop the full tier on my partners head.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-20-2006 18:09
From: Jon Rolland *rolls eyes* when the $L falls 12% or more in a single day you may call it Black <Day>. Until then you are both wrong and making a public fool of yourself. Hahahah.... I'll be sure to keep that in mind.. That day is coming.. |
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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03-20-2006 18:13
From: ReserveBank Division Hahahah.... I'll be sure to keep that in mind..
That day is coming.. Fine then save your Black <Day> for then instead of wearing it out on many small drops(and some up days). |
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-20-2006 18:53
From: Jon Rolland Fine then save your Black <Day> for then instead of wearing it out on many small drops(and some up days). I am retracting my earlier statement about "Black Monday" and changing it to: "Great L$ Crash of March06" |
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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03-20-2006 18:54
From: ReserveBank Division I guess it would be fair to call today, "Black Monday"
Send your letters of Thanks to King Phillip.
Your Glorious Inept Economic Wizard...
Time to rally the battlecry to end all stipends.... So... How many investors have killed themselves over the crash this time? Any? Honestly, ReserveBank... Let's turn off those stipends. Let me show you all the fabulous prizes you'll win: 1) Fewer shoppers that spend less, and more players discovering they don't need L$. 2) An increase in failing businesses. 3) Rentors not paying rent, merchants not making their tier fees. 4) Escalating Land liquidation, of players scaling back or giving up on business 5) Players trying to take their land sales proceeds out of SL via the LindeX, 6) Yet more competition to sell L$'s driving the price down. 7) Yet more competition to sell LAND driving the price of land down.  Land buyers getting more land for fewer L$... and thus buying fewer L$ via LindeX. While I'm prognosticating... why not paint it a little more extremely, as I'm sure you wouldn't hold back either:
9) Players default on tier fees, land gets reclaimed by LL.
10) To compensate for lost tier/premium revenue, LL adds a monthly fee for basic accts.
11) A few thousand 'casual' players decide paying for basic isn't worth it and cancel.
12) The remaining survivors are forced off of their sims into reservations as continents go dark and the world shrinks.
13) Layoffs at LL.
14) A few die-hards remain, too bitter and grizzled to give up hope for the second coming of second life... but mainly it's just a bunch of has-beens grumbling about how the whole idea of an economy was a bad idea in the first place.
...
??) The few remaining servers are migrated onto some snifty new box and put on display at the Smithsonian Institute as a curiosity.
So anyway, ReserveBank... I can see why the idea of eliminating the stipends is so appealing to you... it would give you so much MORE to yell doom and gloom about. Not that you'd still be around of course... having done your damage you'd have moved looking for fresher worlds to turn into dessicated husks. -- Bad Troll. No sig for you today. |
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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03-20-2006 19:06
From: Jonas Pierterson I could say the same thing about those who see it as a platform. If its only a platform where you do business or create and sell, then (in my opinion as much as yours was your opinion -and nothing but-) you are really missing out on what SL is and can offer. SL is a game to some, a platform to others. Everyone sees it differently and uses it differently Thats what makes SL the greatest game ever I wasn't excluding the game component. My view incorporates many definitions. It's many things to many people. I was responding to the statments that it is 'just' a game. It's not 'just' a game, and it's not 'just' a platform. |
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Teale Severine
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 24
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03-20-2006 19:13
Its just a game people..give Your heads a shake..sheesh.
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