The Rampant Anti-Business Climate in SL
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-19-2005 11:31
From: someone It gets even better! Now I'm a complete, babbling idiot according to Prok! Serves me right for disagreeing with his opinions. So much for open discussion Well, that sounds like bitter exageration talking Ingrid. Could you just focus on whether any of my premises are true or false based on your experience, without resorting to personal attack?
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-19-2005 11:35
From: Prokofy Neva Could you just focus on whether any of my premises are true or false based on your experience, without resorting to personal attack?
Can you?
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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04-19-2005 11:38
From: Prokofy Neva Could you just focus on whether any of my premises are true or false based on your experience, without resorting to personal attack? rofl "pot calling kettle, come in kettle"
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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04-19-2005 12:26
From: Prokofy Neva
Like, if Siggy Romulus has a newbie prefab on every single first-land on every single sim that is not on mod, so not a single newbie can ever, ever, EVER change the color of the siding on that god-awful thing, even.
I thought we cleared this up on the other thread (that you didn't reply to) - the houses sold at the dollar store for newbies were released full mod... Many people HAVE modified them (into totally different items that they then went on to sell actually).. If you have one of my prefabs that wasn't modify then you didn't get it as I released it - but thats the joy of having permissions I guess, you could take off mod and redistrubute. Any more misinformation for us today Proctolly> Siggy.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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04-19-2005 12:27
From: Prokofy Neva Have you adapted? I am constantly adapting and changing my business strategies. From: Prokofy Neva Or were you feted lol? I don't think so. From: Prokofy Neva Are you really out there facing business difficulties and decisions on your own on a tabula resa, or did you have a lot of extra support? Yes. I receive no Linden support. From: Prokofy Neva But aren't you the least bit troubled by the hatred of land barons? Is there still hatred for land barons? When I started dealing in land, there was a hatred, now we are all loved. From: Prokofy Neva Or are you saying, shut up, suck up to Lindens, lay low, and just keep buying islands, never question anything, and you, too, will become a Secondlifeonnaire? I am not at all saying shut up. If something in SL bothers you, post it on these forums. If there is enough like minded support, LL will usually change it. From: Prokofy Neva Because you're not really addressing the questions I raised -- people who consider *their own commerce is doing just fine, thank you* but give no thought to the hindrances in the rest of the game (like the events crap) and can only enter this debate by slamming me? I didn't slam you. I just found Chip's statement to be profound. Since starting SL, I have found ways to adapt to the rules created by LL. While others are complaining about the changes, I am figuring out how to make them work to my advantage. I have done that since day one in SL, and continue to do that today.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-19-2005 13:42
From: someone I didn't slam you. I just found Chip's statement to be profound. Since starting SL, I have found ways to adapt to the rules created by LL. While others are complaining about the changes, I am figuring out how to make them work to my advantage. I have done that since day one in SL, and continue to do that today. __________________ Click here if you are interested in a rent-to-own private island sim.
I will pay cash for your island sim! Um, there is hatred of land barons. I guess you don't get out much. I'm glad you didn't get Linden help, and are a success story. Of course, one of the ways you've kept yourself a success story is to make sure to *get in with the right FIC people and be FIC yourself*. My bridges are burned there lol. Well, it's like any small town in America, you have to get in with the boys at the Grange or Joe's Bar and Grill or the Rotary or the Lions, and then you'll be fine. I think you've chosen a niche area for your business that is a great idea and probably really pays off well, or at least makes a profit, because so often people can't handle islands or want to bail out. I think your role and your business is a model. I think LL should fete you on their web pages just as much as they fete Aimee or Marcos. I do want to point out that unlike you, I am not trying to dream up "business strategies" and make spreadsheets in Excel. It's more of a game, and a model, to try to understand things about communities. I like to see if it can break even or turn a profit, who doesn't? That's why I like to put in things that everybody finds sleazy like casinos, know what I mean? In fact, I'm more like the Lindens than even I will be willing to admit, because at the end of the day, the ideologies and the field experience are more important than the actual business. Only people like Anshe who are willng not to spend very much time on philosophies and arguing about them in public are able to make money in this game.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-19-2005 13:48
From: someone I thought we cleared this up on the other thread (that you didn't reply to) - the houses sold at the dollar store for newbies were released full mod... Many people HAVE modified them (into totally different items that they then went on to sell actually)..
If you have one of my prefabs that wasn't modify then you didn't get it as I released it - but thats the joy of having permissions I guess, you could take off mod and redistrubute.
Any more misinformation for us today Proctolly>
Siggy. Hi, Siggy. Gosh, I didn't see that other thread. Um, just last night, seeing two more of those, um, special houses, I peeked inside of them. One of the news had the thing all clicked off for some reason, so I could actualyl move the house around. Gosh, I hope I didn't upset the flower parts, tried to put it back. I peeked inside the menu. It said YOU CANNOT MODIFY THIS OBJECT. This could be my severe shortcoming as a game tekkie -- maybe it only says that on my screen because it's me -- but I thought that meant you couldn't modify it. I'll send you the landmark. I've never seen it in any other way but the ghastly form -- are we talkinga bout the same thing? Gah, I'm not going to ask YOU to remake it and put new texture on it because people don't get that they should mod and improve it. That would be cruel and stupid. If I'm wrong about this, Siggy, I'm so sorry. It's the centerpiece for one of my crankier theories so it's going to be very hard to reject it but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's just that it says YOU CANNOT MODIFY THIS OBJECT on every copy I ever saw so I thought...
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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04-19-2005 14:11
From: Prokofy Neva Have you adapted? Or were you feted lol? Are you really out there facing business difficulties and decisions on your own on a tabula resa, or did you have a lot of extra support? These are honest questions. I have never received any special treatment or support from LL in regards to my business, so yes, I've adapted quite nicely, thanks. I do now get a bit of press and I was recently featured in the newsletter because I have a successful business, not because they're trying to prop me up or do favors for me. The horse came before the cart. You seem to have this attitude that any successful entrepenuer in SL who got here before you was only successful because they got special favors or treatment, which is complete and utter paranoid BS. It's also highly insulting.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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04-19-2005 14:13
From: Prokofy Neva If I'm wrong about this, Siggy, I'm so sorry. It's the centerpiece for one of my crankier theories so it's going to be very hard to reject it but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's just that it says YOU CANNOT MODIFY THIS OBJECT on every copy I ever saw so I thought...
Did you own the object? If not it makes perfect sense that you can't modify it.. Techie wiki wacky wonky aside - thats just plain common sense. They were released in 1.3 with full mod - made deliberately very low prim to fit on new lots after the land vs prim changes (as LL newbie cabins and the then current prefabs were no longer viable) - each one used textures available to the new player, with any extra donated full perms and boxed. Each one was set out in order to show a new player different ways to manipulate prims to get more out of thier allotment... In fact that was one of the tennants of the store in Davenport -- copy and mod permissions were a must, with transfer left at the discretion of the creator. 'the other thread' was where you made the same false statement. One mans 'Cranky theory' is anothers 'Litany of Ignorance' Siggy.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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04-19-2005 14:14
From: Prokofy Neva I find I have to be extra aggressive because of the presence of oh, about 6 people tops, who constantly provide that rabid, junk-yard dog quality to these forums. 
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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04-19-2005 14:18
Woot! Damn I'm buff 
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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04-19-2005 14:36
From: Prokofy Neva Um, there is hatred of land barons. I guess you don't get out much.
Honestly, I do not see this hatred anymore. I think there are people that will resent you regardless of what you do in SL. People hate the Lindens, land barons, content barons, club owners, club goers, basic account holders, premium account holders, Tringo players.... I worry about what my friends think of me, nothing more. From: Prokofy Neva I'm glad you didn't get Linden help, and are a success story. Of course, one of the ways you've kept yourself a success story is to make sure to *get in with the right FIC people and be FIC yourself*. You are way off base with this one. I made no attempt to "get in" with any person or group. The friends I have made in SL like me for who I am. I try to be respectful to their beleifs, even if they differ from mine. I listen when they speak, and try to understand their point of view, even when I don't agree. From: Prokofy Neva My bridges are burned there lol. Well, it's like any small town in America, you have to get in with the boys at the Grange or Joe's Bar and Grill or the Rotary or the Lions, and then you'll be fine. I don't think your bridges are burned at all. I think if you were to stop the hostile tone of your posts you may actually make alot of friends here. I am not telling you to shut up, just tone it down a tad. (And PLEEEEASE make your posts shorter. I can't read most of them due to time constraints) I find your posts well articulated and interesting at times. The problem is, you seem to want to accuse everyone of being in a grand conspiracy. Like every game or social environment people make friends. People gain experience and reputations, this occurs over time. It is difficult to gain a positive reputation when you are constantly accusing your peers of wrong doing. From: Prokofy Neva I think you've chosen a niche area for your business that is a great idea and probably really pays off well, or at least makes a profit, because so often people can't handle islands or want to bail out. I think your role and your business is a model. I think LL should fete you on their web pages just as much as they fete Aimee or Marcos. I agree. I should be sandwiched in between Aimee and Marcos(in an Aimee av) on the SL home page. From: Prokofy Neva I do want to point out that unlike you, I am not trying to dream up "business strategies" and make spreadsheets in Excel. It's more of a game, and a model, to try to understand things about communities. I like to see if it can break even or turn a profit, who doesn't? That's why I like to put in things that everybody finds sleazy like casinos, know what I mean? I do not use spreadsheets yet. Though because of SL, I am going to learn how to efficiently use Excel. (One of these days...) You state that you are not trying to to dream up "business strategies". I am a bit confused by this statement as you seem to always have some business venture you are advertising. You even started this thread about the business climate in SL. I have absolutely no issues with that, but your statement seems to contradict your actions. I do not find casinos at all sleazy. But then again, I don't think that porn is sleazy, so I may not be the person to ask.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-19-2005 14:43
From: pandastrong Fairplay for the record.. i am not a man. And if I was, i wouldn't be caught dead in that outfit Panda.
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Sezmra Svarog
Pointy-Eared Geek
Join date: 8 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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04-19-2005 14:57
From: pandastrong Fairplay LOL... *wipes the tea off her poor monitor*
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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04-19-2005 14:58
too bad, ingrid.. cuz in that pic - you're HOT HOT HOT!!!!
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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04-19-2005 15:00
From: Prokofy Neva I peeked inside the menu. It said YOU CANNOT MODIFY THIS OBJECT.
Unless the owner of the object gives you modify rights to all thier stuff, you'll see 'You cannot modify this object'. You have to own it, as Siggy said. How about I drop you one of my freebies, you drop me $250 so as not to disrupt your philosophic stand on freebies ruining the economy, and you can tell me whether it still says "You cannot modify this object". 
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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04-19-2005 15:08
From: Prokofy Neva I dunno, I'm tired of citing specific examples and being slammed. Read the transcript if it ever comes out.
I have them, but I'm tired of being slammed over specific examples.
You know, in your months of pendantic hate-mongering, I have NEVER seen you give concrete examples. You just sidestep the question or go onto another tangent. Or both. Whenever you back into a corner, you fight out of there with another barrage of verbage. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, that kind of thing. LF
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Barnesworth Anubis
Is about to cry!
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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04-19-2005 15:08
From: Ingrid Ingersoll Prok I think people who do actually make a profit from the game, have been able to look at the tools they've been given, have asessed what can be done with the tools, and then work with those tools for their projects... ... They are successful because they have made good judgemant calls as to what can and can't be done with the tools given to them. Don't blame them for that. You know I would have to agree with ingrid on this. Be thankful for what you have in this game. I dont know about you but im still tickled pink by the freedom and opportunities SL offers compared to other games I have played. I dont know where you lost sight of the fact you use to try and run a sauna with a capuchino machine in TSO. Or made an inverted forst out of god-only-remembers-what, probably lawn chairs and chandliers. Where did that clever Dyerbrook go who always had crazy little set ups and just made do with what he had? Seize what you have, you are lucky to have that. As far as the rest of this thread, reguarding Ingrids houses, i wish I had $1L for every empty Barnesworth Anubis Pre-Fabulous house i have seen owned by you. (infact I have $200-300 haha bad joke  ) The bussiness and enthusiasim is appreciated but as a merchant it is your job to distinguish what will and does rent and what doesnt. If you are willing to take a blow and keep them out then that is your bussiness choice, and shouldnt be used in a flame war on the forums to prove you are supportive. I know you have told me "such and such" model doesnt rent because its scary looking, too small, or the windows dont offer enough privacy for animation balls. I think every time I have told you to take it down and put up a paper-thin victorian house because that will rent. As stated above the bussiness is appreciated, you are by far one of my biggest customers, but you cant hold the creator accountable for them not renting. You know my stance, people have bad taste, so give them what they want.  To get back on topic many of your points outlined on your main post are seen one sided. For example them only offering grants for educational events is to promote events like that, not to hinder others. Just work with it, instead of an event to sell your new vendor spaces hold an event/class on starting a small bussiness, and kindly recomend your own mall for a starting location. Hows that? It may be shameless self promotion but we all know im not above that. [sublimable message] buy barnes stuff [/sublimable message] Just gotta be creative. 
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Barnesworth Anubis
Is about to cry!
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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04-19-2005 15:16
mmmhmmm, way to ruin my fantasy. 
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Barnesworth Anubis
Is about to cry!
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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04-19-2005 15:17
From: Juro Kothari too bad, ingrid.. cuz in that pic - you're HOT HOT HOT!!!! mmmhmmm, way to ruin my fantasy. 
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Nashville Rambler
Pilgrim
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 51
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Community engagement v. wealth-generation
04-19-2005 15:19
From: Prokofy Neva Only people like Anshe who are willng not to spend very much time on philosophies and arguing about them in public are able to make money in this game. I'm afraid your're prolly right, Prokofy. It has been true for me, for all of the one month or so that I've been in SL (at the time of this writing) . I *need* to make money here. However, I also *want* to contribute to the greater SL community. So, I hope you're wrong. I guess I'll find out, at least for my tiny group of newbie builder-wanna-be's 
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Barnesworth Anubis
Is about to cry!
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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04-19-2005 15:22
From: Nashville Rambler I'm afraid your're prolly right, Prokofy. It has been true for me, for all of the one month or so that I've been in SL (at the time of this writing) . I *need* to make money here. However, I also *want* to contribute to the greater SL community. So, I hope you're wrong. I guess I'll find out, at least for my tiny group of newbie builder-wanna-be's  I cant help but question why you *need* to make money here. If you need money get a job.  Nothing wrong with making a little profit, maybe a few bucks on GOM to help out with tier but if your intentions are to come into here and pull a decent salary I sugest you just get a regular paying job, SL economy is very unstable. 
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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04-19-2005 15:24
From: Barnesworth Anubis mmmhmmm, way to ruin my fantasy.  Awww.. I'm sorry, Barnes. How can I fix that? 
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Barnesworth Anubis
Is about to cry!
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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04-19-2005 15:28
From: Juro Kothari Awww.. I'm sorry, Barnes. How can I fix that?  Meet me 500 meters above my Hamlin store, I'll be waiting. 
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-19-2005 15:36
From: Barnesworth Anubis Meet me 500 meters above my Hamlin store, I'll be waiting.  In his superman undies with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. 
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