Ginko Financial doing exactly what they said they'd do

Nope... But judging by your sillyness, I think its fairly safe to say you are incapable of giving a strait answer.

Soo... Mreh.

Apparently this is an SL only phenomenon. In today's society, many, many well off individuals like nothing more than to announce what and how much of it they have. See: Nouveau Riche.

*starts laughing* Or perhaps you are an alt cleverly disguised so that you can pose as an anti-alt?

This whole issue has gotten to the point where there is no reasoning anymore. Those who are anti-Ginko are going to stay that way, and those who are pro-Ginko are also going to stay that way. Ginko may be a Ponzi scheme, but in the US, there is a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Those who are anti-Ginko are quick to sound numerous alarms, saying how similar Ginko's operations are to a Ponzi scheme, but they don't know for sure. Those who are pro-Ginko are pointing out that their investments are returning very nice returns and they haven't had any issues. The only real thing for ALL of us to do, is to watch and wait. One side or the other will be proven right in time.

Is someONE in the same room when you type this goo

NEO... ARE U THE 1.......

i feel like your talking about me while you think im in the same room but im really not

oh my i need a drink

Ok, I'll play.


(?????, wearing a full face mask, runs up to John Doe on the street...)

?????: HI! Guess what, if you give me your money, I'll hold on to it for you, and give you 0.19% interest per day!!!

John Doe: Um, really? That sounds neat. Who are you?

?????: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK ME THAT!!!

John Doe: Uh, okay. So how do you manage to give out that much interest?

?????: I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU!!! HOW DARE YOU ASK THAT QUESTION!!!

John Doe: Oh, okay, well that all seems perfectly legitimate and reasonable, here you go, $60,000.

(????? runs off)

John Doe: HELP!!! POLICE!!!! That man ran off with my money!!!

Police: Ok, who was he?

John Doe: ...

Well actually, this is a bit more complicated. The L$ are certainly still in SL. They simply changed hands to people willing to give US$ for them. The effect of a big L$ sale on the SL economy is caused not by the removal of L$ (thats impossible except by the Lindens), but by a little drop in the exchange rate, reducing the RL value of all those (unchanged) L$ inworld. So you are both right in a way.

Finally. There it is. In a nutshell. It is that insecure.
*hug*

????? may be as honest as the day, but is it wise to assume it ? Even though, for now, he's still there on the sidewalk, fulfilling his obligations. Let's pray this continues to be the case.....

Ah, good point.

Oh oh, I wanna play too!

Guy 1: Theif!

Guy 2: Wait, what?

Guy 1: You're a god damn theif, you're going to run away with other peoples money!

Guy 2: But I didn't do anything!

Guy 1: So what? You have other peoples money, you theif!

Guy 2: But they chose to invest with me, and I have been running this buisness
for over a year without any complaints. Also, if I ran off with everyones money, I would lost all of my work and buisness.

Guy 3: Obscure word of the day! You use subterfuge to trick people into investing in you.

Guy 2: But I didn't trick anyone, they chose to do it out of trust. They don't have to invest if they have doubts.

Guy 1: Theif!

Guy 4: omg penis lolo

Well I guess those two posts encapsulate the two different viewpoints. Maybe we have been lucky and Nicholas is totally trustworthy and an unbelievable financial whizzkid. Its not completely impossible.

But I will say this - even if this isn't a scam, the next one will be. Having seen the astonishing willingness here to lay oneself open to a scam, a scam will come.

If I were dishonest, I'd be planning one myself. Looks like taking candy from a baby.

This I dispute. It would be at least 1-2 years hard and uncertain future slog to make in SL the equivalent of the US$60,000 he could take now just by dumping his reputation, and walking. A calm assessment of the value of his SL reputation and prospects at this date would be nowhere near that figure, particularly calculating the huge expenditure of hours and effort which could be avoided by doing a runner.

Morality apart, he should run the moment outgoings exceed new deposits, or the moment it is clear they will continue to do so.

FALSE.

The value is GONE.

This is something few seem to get and which is really frustrating. If 16M has been withdrawn and sold then 64K USD of money has been taken from our economy.

In return for what? A bunch of ATMs strewn around SL.

Well, this would be true if $Ls got deleted when sold.

Don't muddle people, Blaze. The actual L$ are still there. The value is gone in the sense that the exchange rate has been depressed a little, reducing the value of the fixed inworld L$.

As a secondary effect, and later, if LL act to reinstate the exchange rate, then they may indeed take out actual L$ to achieve it, so eventually the result of actual L$ loss may come about.

But we have no way to know what the "multiplier" may be, ie what exact effect a big sale may have on the rate, and therefore total L$ value, and therefore ultimate possible L$ withdrawal to correct the rate. Is it obvious that the multiplier is 1 ?

Its all very complex, and muddled in with psychology, available alternative choices for spending etc etc.

But yes, at rock bottom, one way or the other, if a big L$ sale occurs which otherwise would not have, RL value has been withdrawn from the economy. It's growth in RL value terms will be slowed. That must surely be a bad, but we'd have to estimate it's size in proportion to the whole economy to decide whether to get worked up or not, wouldn't we?

At rock bottom you are right. The proportion that would otherwise have stayed in world is indeed gone, though subject to an unknown multiplier. It might be close to 1. I don't know enough economics to be sure. It's subtle.

Here's another way to look at it:

If you have 250 million L$, that is equal to about 1 million USD if the value is at 250 L$ / dollar.

Now, if someone sells off 60K that could reduce the L$ to 265 L$ / dollar and NOW the total L$ is only worth about 940000.

So, in affect, the sale of the 60M caused the L$ to go from 250-265

Isn't it just in a sort of 'holding pattern' until the owner withdraws the funds and re-enters those funds into the economy?

Even if that were the case, isn't that a good thing?

Fair enough. 60K of value has been withdrawn from the economy.


I don't think it is. I think it's pretty straightforward.. the value has been taken out of the economy in exchange for a bunch of ATMs that are pretty easy to make.

Well, no, L$ inflation from 250-265 is not a good thing because

a) It causes stipends to be cut off
b) People no longer want to hold L$ because they fear it's value will vanish
c) Massive inflation results which destabalizes the economy

That's the question.

Will the money come back?

All the answers point to fraud. How can we trust one person when an whole economy is at stake? When all the answers come up "trust me, no I won't tell you who I am, no I won't tell you what I'm doing with the money, no you have no recourse, no I won't be punished if I just walk".

If we were given reasons to trust, then I'd be all for it. I am a running dog capitalist in the meanest sense.

However, it's my free market nature which makes me see the inherent risks in letting these sorts of schemes exist.

Business?

This is a business?

No business on the face of the earth

a) Does not tell you who they are
b) Holds your money in complete secrecy
c) Has no recourse to get your money back
d) Suffers nothing if they lose your money.

That is NOT a business.

I understand you might have a game plan to deal with this.

But calling this a business is not helping.

Errr

a) It would raise stripends if you delete a large amount of $Ls out of the system. The main reason it was reduced because of the $L that is pumped into SL weekly, but has no outlit.

b) It would only increase the value.

c) What?

a) No, the reason it was reduced was because the L$ pumped into the economy was competing with someone selling L$ that probably would have never gotten sold. It probably would have been spent on land or just sat in accounts.

b) 250 -> 265 is a massive DECREASE in value, ie: inflation.

c) inflation destabalizes the economy. It's why we have a central banker named Alan Greenspan who punishes us all by increasing interest rates when inflation occurs.

Unless you are _really_ old, it's unlikely (though not impossible) that you could be by Mom.

As far as the topic is concerned, I understand what you're saying and I (and I suspect many others here) don't need to be schooled or beaten over the head with it.

Everyone and I mean _everyone_ who has an opinion on this subject has chimed in on it. Continued commentary on the topic is simply flogging the dead horse (unless the people continuing to press the issue have an agenda to fufill, it which case it's just shenanigans).