Ginko Financial doing exactly what they said they'd do

A little something for those of you who have expressed the sentiment "well I don't care if its a ponzi, I got in early so IM making MONEY!"

I'll be his alt sure.

I'm not so sure he would agree though, seeings how im female and all

BTW, howdy tharr Anshe alt #192393474744!!!

Yup, you caught me.

Cept theres the minor problem of having RL pics on my profile, the fact that I have done several dj shows (including talking on the mic) in SL, and the minor issue that I have been a quite vocal critic of Anshe on all sorts of occasions.

Guess thats just an elaborate cover.

It is possible that Ginko is using my deposit to fund the import of marijuana to thw US (not that I think that an a priori bad thing, but it is against US law). I don't think it is likely that they are doing that; it is just within the realm of the possible.

In my RL portfolio, there are firms like Calgon Carbon Corporation. I know nothing almost nothing about that firm, but given their industry, I would imagine that they are doing something that isn't particularly fantastic for the environment. Sure, I could read more about them if I really wanted to know, and the information in the SEC filings might be accurate but it certainly wouldn't tell me much of the adverse environmental effects of their business. For all I know, I could have at one time owned shares of Enron Corp. about which we now know we didn't know as much as we thought we did despite all their dutiful filings.

In fact, I'll even profess to knowing very little about the composition of my RL portfolio, let alone the actions of the firms that I own shares of. I could spend all of my time reading the multitudinous prospectuses and still not know very much about what my very real investments are being used for but that would be a huge amount of work that I don't want to do. That is why I pay someone to look after that stuff for me; do they have perfect knowledge of what my assets are doing? Nope. They do have more knowledge than I and that's sufficient for me.

As someone above posted "Good luck, daring investors." which is quite similar to "past performance is no guarantee of future returns" orwhich was drawn at random from a company that makes playing card shuffling machines.

There seems to be a desire to hold Ginko to a standard that no one expects in the real world.

I believe you. It's not that important to me. I'm perfectly content discussing issues, regardless of whom I may be discussing the issue with.

I discuss matters according to the content of the message being brought forth, not by who may be bringing forth the message or how much support that person may have that is bringing forth the message.

Its a matter of principle with me.

There is no real comparison between the situation you described for publicly traded companies and Ginko.

You might be right. I might have no idea what a Ponzi scheme is or the critial facts about them or what risk in investment means.

Or it could simply mean that I'm really achingly tired of the baseless speculation triggered by Anshe's campaign to smash a competitor. I also know that this tempest in a teapot has centered over a fiscal pittance compared to what Anshechung.com has already expended on non-existent properties, and I'm personally sickened by the tactics that firm has used in their smear campaign.

Plus, it gives me something to do while waiting to go pick my kid up from school.

I don't really agree with that, Cheyenne. I think one is defending one's right to be scammed if one defends one's right to act so that it is ridiculously easy for someone to scam you. It doesn't actually have to happen. Defending the right to act so that it easily could - that is enough. If you are lucky it won't happen, but if you take no precautions whatever, you invite it. Well, I suppose I am "asssuming " it, but only in the sense that when one installs a burglar alarm in ones house, one "assumes" that one (a burglar) may arrive. MAY arrive. One acts in accord with this assumption. In the case of GINKO, I cannot possibly state whether or not a fraud is being committed. How could I know for certain? But I think the anonymity, the refusal to disclose anything, and the already-completed removal of the money add up to such a weighty probability that everyone here would do well to assume there is something wrong and act accordingly. Install a burglar alarm. Just in case.

For me the most telling sign is that Nicholas seems to prefer to let his organisation face possible ruin through loss of confidence, rather than perform the oh-so-simple-if-honest act of telling us what is going on.

Why not give a little? Do you know what hoops, rules, and audits such an organisation would have to face in RL, to be legal ?

Ever wonder why ?

And do you know what "Ginko" means in Japanese ?

I agree. I also don't invest, since I prefer not to risk losing what I currently have.

The thing that troubles me about this entire mess is that some individuals seem so eager to jump on the vigilante justice wagon.... i.e. "We're nearly certain he probably stole that horse. -- or would have if he'd had the chance -- so let's string him up now!"

Please share....

You are precisely correct.

Borrowing money is a great way to leverage growth.

For companies that *don't have the money or the present means* to do it for themselves.

Once they have such means, they won't need anyone, will they?




Again, I wish all of you the very best of luck.

- Desmond Shang

I'm afraid, Malachi, that you just might be funding something far, far worse than that. With total, defiant silence, it could in fact be ANYTHING. And it isn't money Nicholas has earned, it actually still your money. So you must bear responsibility if by neglect of the simplest precautions you do turn out to be supporting and enabling something truly criminal, and even evil. You seem to agree it is possible, but not think it significant ?

I think people are neglecting to remember that they need do little scrutiny in RL, because someone else is very thoroughly scrutinising every legal investment organisation. But here NO-ONE is scrutinizing anything.

This US$60-70,000 could be financing absolutely anything.

http://www.arch-hiroshima.net/arch-hiroshima/arch/delta_center/nichigin_e.html

Nippon Ginko = Central Bank of Japan.
Nippon - Japan
Ginko - Bank

So solid it survived in central Hiroshima.

Just thought it worth mentioning because someone posted that "Nicholas has never claimed Ginko is a bank".

Um...RL?....pardon but aren't you an elf here?

Also I have had success with GINKO BUT have had friends scream about them as well having lost money and been told they never recieved it, etc. Seems as if IGE - foriegn accents = GINKO . You do something that you DO NOT GET RIGHT AWAY and you are taking a chance. Instant gratification is the safest bet in a virtual world.

You know, this really is a huge problem in this discussion. So many people seem to see only this. I don't see it as relevant at all to the question of how much caution an intelligent person should use when approaching Ginko.

Suppose someone calls a warning just as you are walking out in front of a truck. Will you keep walking, and die, because you recognise the voice as someone you loathe ?

Ginko came before the bank. Hino didn't even know ginko ment bank in japanese until I told him, and that was two months before the bank came.

Hold on, did we finally learn something by accident? Who is Hino, exactly ? Not someone's real name by any chance ? Or is it just another anonymous participant ?

Hino is the creator of Ginko. Nick is the creator of the bank. Hino does the technology backing for the bank. Nick handles the financial part. This isn't new news at all.


Edit: Err, am I crazy, or was the post I was replying to disappear?

Do you see a pattern in your post?

Let me see if i can make myself clear to you Ellie.

I am not advocating that Ginko is not a scam. It may very well be. However, I would not resort to villanizing anyone or anything simply because I did not have answers.

In regard to this matter in general, I would be betraying my morals, and would be wholely remiss, if i simply stood idly by and allowed a certain group of people arbitrarily slander and discredit someone,. or something, based on assumptions and speculation alone.

Think to yourself for a minute.

What if Ginko is a legitimate and legal entity? How can you find comfort in having contributed to destroying an honest person and/or entity based on pure speculation and innuendo alone?

While it is true that Nicholas is not revealing information that would bring you comfort, this alone should not be reason to villanize a person who, to my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong), has never given anyone any reason to question his integrity. Likewise, his SL business venture, herein known as Ginko, has been in existence for over one year and has provided nothing but sterling service to date, and without nary a complaint from any of his customers after over a year of service.

Again, no one is saying that the business model should not be questioned. However, that is not what is happening here.

What we have here is an influential individual who has demanded to learn information that Nicholas was unwilling, but not obligated, to provide. As such, this individual then vowed that she would destroy Ginko because of Nicholas' non-compliance to her request.

Why was this not an issue with this individual when Ginko was offering .20% one year, nine months, or even six months ago? Why has it suddenly become an issue now?

Although I can't speak to anyones motives, I find it very hard to believe that one would be so up in arms about 16M Lindens. As much as some would have you believe, if Ginko were to go belly up, it would not spell disaster for SL. Believe you me, I love SL as much as everyone else. I am also the biggest fan of LL and the Lindens. If this were the case, I would be just as concerned as yourself and those you advocate. I simply do not believe this to be the case.

And guess who else does not believe this to be the case?

Linden Labs.

Having witnessed how LL handled the GOM incident, and I am not saying they handled it poorly because I believe they acted 100% correctly, as they should have since it is their baby; do you, for one minute, honestly believe that LL would sit idly by while an entity within their model had the potential to destroy their platform?

The answer is a glorifed NO!

LL are not dumb people. These are highly educated individuals. They have very sophisticated equipment that consistently analyzes the changing trends within SL's economy. Do you believe them to be so inept that they are not able to identify a threat to their platform but yet one of their residents can?

Could it be that the danger is not to SL and/or it's economy, but to one very influential resident and her vested interests?

I will not pretend to have all the answers. But to dismiss all possibilities, is indeed good reason to feel threatened.

Not just by Ginko, but by any business venture that is unfortunate enough to be dragged and questioned in these forums in the future.

Because trust me, If this is allowed to continue unobstructed...

there will certainly be more.

Ellie

Suppose someone calls a warning just as you are walking out in front of a truck. Will you keep walking, and die, because you recognise the voice as someone you loathe ?
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What you seem to fail to understand is that, as an adult, I will do what I damn well please, whether it be walking under a truck or investing in Ginko, neither of which I have chosen to do at the moment.

You don't know any more than anyone else what Ginko will do in the future, or where it invests its money. You don't KNOW that its bad. Even if you personally think it is, that's your personal opinion, nothing more.

When I need someone to run my life for me , I'll call.

Alexa

***

Gosh, I meant to quote something......can't even do THAT right anymore.

Unless .... there /is/ no truck .. and the voice calling me back has in mind something else entirely from saving me from a bad decision.

Where we differ, Cheyenne, is that I simply do not see myself as vilainising or slandering anyone. I believe I have never said "Ginko is a scam" or "Nicholas is a villain". This is in your imagination.

If I had made such a statement, you would be in the right. But I have not.

I have merely pointed out all the factors which suggest there is a substantial probability that Ginko might be a Ponzi scheme. And I am very far from alone, Cheyenne.

If this seems unpleasant, unfriendly or unfair to the Ginko people, they have the remedy in their hands. If they continually choose not to disclose, they invite suspicions.

Let me put it to you like this, Cheyenne.

The non-disclosure policy exposes the investors to big extra risk - of being caught in a scam, or of unknowingly supporting something illegal.

But does this non-disclosure policy expose Ginko to any extra risk, too, to balance things up ?

Yes. It exposes Ginko to the risk of being an honest, legal business, yet being destroyed by unfounded suspicion.

The investors have no choice about non-disclosure. They accept it, and accept the risk it brings.

Ginko has big choice about non-disclosure. But if they choose it they too must accept the risk it brings. The risk it brings for them.

No complaining from investors or on their behalf ? Then no complaining from Ginko or on their behalf.

Straighten up, al you Ginko supporters. Take the criticism and suspicion like a man. Deal with it. Respond to it. But to actual criticise it for existing is despicable. Your hero has invited it - well nigh begged for it - by his policy of secrecy.

And stop saying everyone is slandering and accusing Ginko. If you actually read what is being written, you will see it simply isn't true. Not for everyone you attack.

If you wish to demonstrate, Cheyenne, that you are actually posting on the issues, then why not reply simply, clearly and directly to my point printed in bold above. How can Ginko complain at suspicion when they do everything to invite it and nothing to dispel it ? How ? Don't like taking risks they have chosen to expose themselves to, eh ?