The Big Prim Problem

Ok I am huge fan of the mega prims myself, yes there are issues with the physics, but they cannot be beat for covering large areas of land or leveling land.

I have also seen examples where the use of the largest of the mega prims was very helpful in a build that required the use of an aerial photo to make sure the build of the particular sim I talking was to scale and placement of the buildings was right. Yes the sim is a replica of a RL place. After the building placement was made the huge prim was removed very simple and responsible.

As for my personal use of them, they are perfect for large sculpties! and I know to make them phantom because of the physics issue, but I am also using them to cover the crappy mainland default ground textures,

( the default ground textures are way too washed out, and they really need to be tweeked to have more color saturation I recommend Kriss Lehmann yes the person who built and owns straylight for that job!)

I know many of my favorite places to visit utilize the mega prims and I would hate to see the destruction caused by the removal of these prims.

Also I would lose my ground, and yes the ones I am using for ground are not phantoms but they are not causing any issues above ground level to my knowledge. Yes I am on the mainland too. I personally have not had the need for anything above 256.

I also make dang sure I am not overlapping someone elses land without permission, areas where I do overlap it is with the permission of the landowner, aka my neighbors, we have a really good neighborhood group where I have my land and everyone is working together to create a look on our particular mainland sim

As for the issue with griefers, perhaps its time to look at a better way to deal with these folks, I think a good first step is to take away the free accounts. I also think that like RL when you get caught doing something you pay money - either by sitting in jail for x amount a day or paying a restitution/ tickets, I think it's time for these people to start paying money for the problems they cause. I have seen the police blotters where you ban someone from logging in for x amount of time. I think instituting a system that charges these folks for the problems they cause would be good.Another thought would be to automatically route these folks to a holding cell when they log in would work too.

Ok thats my $1 L worth of thought processes

Nila Dench


SAVE THE MEGA PRIMS or make it possible for us to create larger ones in the build dialog I think 256 is plenty big and a good limit and I know you support mega prims upto that size

Having Used mega prims quit extensively in some builds in the past I found them initially to be quite helpful. Recently I moved to an older sim. After setting up a building made largely of oversized prims (quite a few of them) the sim began experiencing large spike in server IPS. After working with the sim owner to try and track down the cause, we were unable to determine anything and a ticket was filed on the problem. Long story short: after playing with this problem for some time, I took down the prims to put up a different build which did not use them, and the following morning when I came back, the high IPS problem was gone. After discussing with the sim owner to see if any other changes might have occurred, we found nothing significant. Putting the build back out again, everything seemed normal, but about 2-3 days later the high IPS count returned (90,000 in a sim normally around 45,000). It was my conclusion that the prims were the source. It may have been in the way they were used, or simply because this was an older sim. (The build used about 40 of the 32x32x40 prims in a torus shape most path cut and interpolating the ground) What was interesting though is that there was no immediate effect, it took about 2-3 days to manifest each time, but corrected itself within a short time after the prims were removed.
Since removing them the last time, the problem has not recurred, and I have not made any effort to experiment further.

The point is NOT that it was allowed and now its not. Point is some griefters purposely used them to create Sim Lag to help being down Land values and cost land owners to sell out. There are always people clammering NANANA you allowed this type of object and now you don`t bla bla bla.........Gesh

Having only recently being handed a pack of megaprims to assist with my second themed club build in SL I can honestly say that I wish I had them much sooner...

Am only using 20x20x0.5 prims as backing walls, complete transparency on the opposite side so as not to ruin the external area, and all are set to phantom. They cause no problem that I am aware of (thinking of ALL of the places that use them) and if used responsibly (ie. reasonable size, no encroachment etc) then they add a great deal of aesthetics to SL that would otherwise be lost due to prim count restrictions.

Take away megaprims and SL would be the worse for it in my opinion...

Get rid of them. Sorry, but in this instance I can't say "keep them" like everyone else does.

These things were never intended to be created by Linden Labs. Regardless of their uses, they cause problems. They were created as a hack by a resident. Cool, yes, but ultimately they should be removed.

I think the TRUE issue here is that there is a need for larger prims by residents.

It would be a fair compromise that Linden Lab stop mega prims from being copyable anymore. Don't delete the ones already inworld, but no longer allow people to create more.

As a further part of that compromise, Linden Lab should implement a larger limit on prims with the new physics system. 20mx20mx20m should be a fair enough increase in prim sizes to assuage those who need them. It gives us all more options to work with for building purposes. It prevents the gross abuse that people have been using with the super large frakking prims.

Ok I'm done.

Anything over 1'4th a sim should be removed. Anything under should be fine. This allows people to keep reasonable sized megaprims for use in building, while enabling others who own their own sims and want to use them to cover the sim the ability to still do so, with only a moderate increase in the primcount being used.

Under no circumstances should they be removed simply because they can be "abused", nromal prims can be abused, a 10x10 prim can still be used to block or encroch on someones plot, ect.

Although realy, i cant see why you cant just program the option to use/disallow megaprims into the private estate options, and resize them on rez if they are set to disallow.

Of course LL is gonna do what they want anyways, just like they did when they took away 100x prims

Unless they pose terrific technical problems for the grid, you should keep any Mega Prims that can be frequently justified in building situations. For example.... those 65,000 Mega Prims should probably go... while the 20X20 or 32X32 or 50X50 are very useful and should stay. Also, how about Torley giving a Tips Video on how to correctly use Mega Prims and how to avoid problems.

In my opinion, all megaprims should be removed. They are a public nuisance.

I’ve near 20 RL employees with RL salaries working in SL daily, so SL is important to us

Our RL Group decided to come to SL to “build things”, Great Things, Landmarks that can give SL and us Public Attention and to be honest, Media hype.

Mega Prims are the most important tool we have to do so! They are essential to our work, more so with the … incomprehensibly (with today hardware) low 15k prim sim limit.

You can’t build great things just with textures, the result is not realistic enough, most of the times you do need prims to make 3D!

SL has, and you should know it better than I, a scale problem. SL has it own scale that’s larger than RL so 16384 M2 “are not” 16384 M2 but “somewhat less”, consequently buildings that try to represent RL ones end up occupying a larger area.

Mega Prims are the solution to work with that scale/prim limit problem.

Hail Mega Prims! (and Nanos too)

Ok, some kids grief with then, some impolite people encroaches with then; … just ban the griefers and the rude ones

I think that if you want to set a limit to Megas an …hum … acceptable one could be the 256x256 sim wide prim. Nevertheless, as a principle I don’t like limits

All the Best

... as are scripts, particles, textures, and just about everything in the game. Ban those too!!

Seriously - I am glad that the question has been asked. But I don't see it as a "Big Prim Problem" - it is a problem with griefers using yet another tool to make life miserable.

Prim limits are too small, and megaprims provide relief and efficiency that is unmatched. Within reason, the megaprims that are most commonly used are a tremendous asset that probably help sim performance more than they hinder it. The most popular and reasonable suggestion is to limit their size. I would suggest that anything below 64m per side should be allowed to remain in the game, but at worst, allow 32m per side. These unobtrusive prims are no worse than regular prims, and there is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Either allow all residents to create new ones, i.e., set the new prim size limit to 20m, or grandfather them.

Grandfathering them would mean, after sufficient warning, users will no longer be able to spawn an existing megaprim or a build with a megaprim in it.

The playing field should be even always. Chose either of these options, but DO NOT HAVE AN ASYMMETRIC POLICY: meaning, no different rules for islands, or no "nod-and-wink". I had a build with a very reasonable megaprim in it that was removed by a Linden. Be fair, but if you keep them then also allow people to create them.

the mega prims are only used to bypass the limits of sl , if you dont have enough prims to build your giant orb of death then you should not build it , why does everyone go so ape over a bug , its just like any other game isnt it , "if the game allows, it it is ok to do " personally im tired of that particular sentiment. if you need more prims , PAY FOR THEM

I'm a prefab builder, and try to keep them as low prim as possible, since I design them for small plots of land. I see a few different solutions here:
a. respond to abuse reports involving mega prims to ban the offenders entirely
b. remove them for dimensions over 100m^3. There is never a need for a prim bigger than that.
c. Expand dimensions allowances by the client! I would love to be able to make a 30m^2 house platform without hunting one down in my megaprims. I would give up my 50x50s to be able to make two 26.75x25.770s!

If this is the case, then LLAbs should start thinking about creating a more friendly over size prim. There are many cases the mega prims has causes Sim crashing stress etc......Can`t close you eyes to facts. People complain that sims are laggy and greifter crashing sims right? Gesh

Ok, Sl is getting away from the fantasy view of a life different from our rl ones. Rules are cropping up everywhere that frankly ruin what I started playing in sl for. First the gaming and now the huge prims.

If you should lose the big prims, many builders who have created AWESOME designs and sold quite a number of said designs will lose out. This prim count business is really getting to all. Soon it will be that should we own land, it will have to be an entire sim just to build or have ANYTHING upon it. And that is just one resident.

So I would suggest a limit but not elimination, of how many megaprims can be used for a project. And also leave it to the SIM owners on whther they allow the megaprims. Just like with flying and scripting permissions, megaprims can be made the same way.

Please stop banning or eliminating something just b/c some folks complain about it enough to make it appear a majority. Let us all enjoy sl for what it was intended...

I haven't actually read all the posts, but here's my $L2 anyway:

We NEED megaprims. By "we" I mean builders obviously, not those who abuse large prims. Megaprims make up for the fact that 10m isn't big enough for any kind of floor, especially a large one. I keep meaning to replace Dragon Keep's 20-something prim floor with a megaprim to free up space. I used a couple of megaprims to build the walls, floor, and water of a cave I'm working on, which has to be big enough to hold a couple of dragon avatars that can't even fit through most doors. Even with my generously sized land plot I don't have room to make the cave with weenie 10s. The last avatar I made (the aforementioned dragons) taught me that I need a new, larger skybox workshop, which I will be constructing from 40x40s. I absconded with Jupiter and tethered it to my home. (Don't ask)

I say raise the prim size cap, to at least 30. 50 would be better. Maybe keep a low limit on mainland parcels since encroachment is more commonly unresolved there. But estates should get 40 or 50. I'm an estate manger for 3 sims that allow proper usage of megaprims, and have very rarely need to return encroaching builds, if ever. That's really not a problem on properly moderated sims, and 10m is way too small for things like houses and stores. It wouldn't matter quite as much if there weren't parcel prim limits, but there are out of necessity so there should be other options. The plight of people who want a circular room has just as much merit.

Viva la Megaprims!

Also, I need a 20x20x20 rock.

Megaprims are absolutely invaluable for larger builds. There are simply some things you can't make without them. The current 10x10x10 limit combined with the sim limit of 15000 prims is a huge bottleneck when making larger designs.

With Cadroe's tools I can make a 20x20 cylander (of sorts - using tapered cubes), but in order to approximate a smooth edge you have to use more prims. Why use 40 or more prims when you can use 1?

I also agree with those who have stated that *anything* can be subject to abuse. The entire LSL scripting language is far more abuse prone than any unscripted prim, no matter what the size. And in terms of sheer numbers, a megaprim that overlaps a parcel boundary doesn't cause anywhere near the amount of problems for as many people as a maliciously scripted item. (Please note I'm not calling for the abolition of LSL - just making a comparison.)

Additionally, more and more residents are looking to controlled private estates for residences, which removes the abuse problem from LL's hands entirely.

If there really are major issues behind the scenes with megaprims and sim stability, please work on those issues rather than take away the ability to work with prims larger than 10x10. If it takes an official version of megaprims, so much the better - but within the current constraints, megaprims are extremely valuable to both prim conservation and artistic quality.

how about linden labs commisioning a private security company to run public ad as the only official SL Policing company. If someone has a problem with a griefer they can contact this group that is actually recognized by Linden Labs and make a complaint. This group can then check the validity of the claim and then try and resolve the problem through communication with the troublesome Second Lifer. This group could then have the problem resolved and a warning given and that information noted. If they are complained against again then Ban them immediately. Have this Security make abuse reports on all lifers who are non responsive or are just plain asses an insist on being a griefer. Linden Labs can then take action when this security company files there abuse report. Come up with a system for stopping the problem and not punishing everyone. How are you supposed to be able to run a succesful business if you cant kepp up with the problems. Hire me to start an official security organization and i will gladly put a system in place to combat crime in second life. Send out an official notice from LL telling every person about the security and how to contact them. It would also relieve stress from LL's shoulders because there would be fewer abuse reports. LL doesnt get everyone i know from personal experience. please consider this as an option. ty very much ................................ kracker Ultsch

Parcel encroachment: the issue is not the size of the prim, the issue is the inability of a land owner to return an object whose root prim is on another parcel. That is what is needed to fix encroachment, Abuse Reports are just ignored.

Ad-Poles, there is an as-pole is Nolidae that stays within the 16m2 3 prim limit by having an ad that blots the view for several meters up instead of the 30 meters with normal prims.

Overall, I think mega prims should be allowed,

I think they sim sized ( and bigger) ones clearly are useless and dangerous, but the 50 meter and down ones have tremendous value. ANY prim can be used in an abusive way - PLEASE dont get rid of these. some BEAUTIFUL builds have been done using them particularly with sculpties - things that would never be possible on 10 x 10 x 10 prims.

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/WillMoseley/scenery/?action=view&current=Snapshot_002.jpg
http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/WillMoseley/SL/?action=view&current=59c54556.jpg
http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/WillMoseley/SL/?action=view&current=Snapshot_003SLscreencapjune22.jpg

i love the huge Prims. When used correctly they are an asset. I use them for streets, sidewalks, and Roofs mostly. I use them sparingly. I agree that a prim the size of an entire sim is a bit overkill, no matter how much you manipulate it. I also agree that ppl need to be more educated in the use of them.

As far as the lag and stress on the server, Huge prims may cause, It is far less then the lag of having to resort to rez boxes.

I'm seeing people proposing arbitrary (i.e. not due to any technical limits) usually between 20m and 50m limits on the size of solid objects.

This is a bad idea.

If you're building a city sim, it's perfectly reasonable, and harmless, to have the asphalt be one 256x256x0.010 prim. The "artificial ground" needs to be solid, of course.

Please, no more arbitrary limits. If there are technical limitations, then them's the breaks. There is *no* way to keep people from annoying each other in Second Life. If nothing else they can just be rude in text, and I'd like to see any 'technical' fix to something like that, short of just doing away with Second Life altogether.

Eliminating megaprims <= 256sqm won't help with griefing at all. Anybody really curious can find themselves a mostly empty sandbox and make some particle spewing scripts that shoot about 4096 particles at a time, use large textures, and spread a few of these around. Believe me, they'll cause way more havoc than a 256sqm prim will. Going to get rid of particles? Oh boy. I'd like to see how that one goes over. Maybe we should get rid of attachments too, since some people use them to display their genitals in areas that people don't appreciate that. Oh, and textures too, since at least females can do it that way. Mayhaps that idea of removing chat, so people can't be rude wasn't so bad after all? Think of all the AR's it'd save...

Please children, grow up. Prims don't grief people. People grief people.

Don't blame the code that handles physics or collisions for bugs in code that handles the right to return objects. Megaprims have /nothing/ to do with parcel encroachment.

I've personally had nothing but good experiences with Megaprims, while I can understand the dynamics and multiple ways that they are abused, particularly when used in public sandboxes, there isn't much I can say against them other than if they're causing so much of a problem. Why not rectify it by working a fix that allows for primitives to be made LARGER than 10x10.

Personally I like being able to have as many prims open as possible on the land that I live, work, and play on, and a house that, while huge, is over 2600 prims big, it isn't worth putting down on land that only allows for 5000 prims used total.

I would personally want LL to find a way to allow for the 10x10m limit to be modified, to at least allow for the prims to be made at least 10 times that size (100x100). I know that there are several coding and engine problems that could arise from this, but as a programmer, there are ALWAYS solutions to a code error. Hackers found a way to exploit the error to make the prims huge... why is it Linden Labs can't do it too?

in a world that is ruled by prim usage and governed by the mantra "Your World, Your Imagination" it is IMPERATIVE that Mega Prims remain in Second Life.

It has been mentioned a number of times that removing mega prims will cripple the efforts of creators that cannot afford large plots of land. Because of the positioning of the 3rd person camera in Second Life, buildings are more comfortable for residents if the spaces are larger and more accommodating for the camera. Using Mega Prims in our structures helps us to appeal to the public by creating the needed amount of space without using up our prim limits on large walls and ceilings.

From a content-creator's point of view, Mega Prims are a necessity in Second Life in order to give us a budget-friendly way to create.

There are plenty of things that aren't possible to do by replacing one mega prim with many many standard prims. Even if you have the entire sim to play with.

In addition, it isn't clear that the single megaprim is more of a hit on the sim than the equivalent number of standard prims needed to reproduce the same effect, when possible to reproduce at all.