Basic Members....would you be willing to pay a SMALL yearly fee?

I already bought a lifetime account. You know they don't even sell lifetime accounts anymore. They're free now! I wouldn't pay annual unless it equated to some extra benefits, $L, a little land, etc.

The lifetimes we are reffering to in here are the pay $225 and you get 4096 for life. I know there were older accounts that did not particpate in this system and lost out at that time as well.

With the above (in the subject line) said, I'd like to say that I myself would still be considered unverified for a simple enough reason: I used a one time rebate card and drained all thirty bucks out of it into my Linden balance.

With that out of the way ....

No, I would not be willing to pay even a single dollar to use the service as a basic account: I don't have any single way to pay for it. Those attempting to use the existence of a computer and DSL line in those places where getting a CC or PP account is not possible to justify their argument on having basic members pay for the service ... Please come back when your world view isn't so skewed by your good life in the USA, UK, Australia or any other country where getting this information isn't so difficult that you think everyone can provide said information. If they cannot, they cannot - that's the end of it.

Now, if you're perfectly willing to pay for my account - well then by all means go ahead and continue debating this idea. In fact, if you're willing to pay for a Premium account upgrade - to my account or any other basic - then please feel free to argue that Premium members are the only customers of Linden Lab as well.

If you are not willing to do the above, why then you have little need to be making a case here eh?

If you're not willing, what does it matter whether you have a way to pay for it or not?

To point out even if they were they could not? Yes the person overrides thier own conversation but they are trying to also point out a larger picture.

PS: that person is also I think a "verified" account.

Umm... what?

The person is most likely referring to some form of 16-digit stored value card which they had recieved as a rebate from another transaction and then used the "rebate card" to verify their account and to purchase Linden dollars.

However, having placed some sort of payment info on file, they can now sell Linden dollars and use the balance to cover account fees. It's not insurmountable, it simply requires a certain level of industriousness on the part of the person to now pay their own way through SL.

or one of those prepaid Visa/mastercards that even a child can get for Xmas.

Gotta love the gift card revolution.

Exactly... the threshold to verify an account is minimal: the registrant selects their card type and enters in the 16-digit number along with expiration information. Linden Lab makes no charges against the card number placed on file unless the registrant upgrades, purchases land (tier fees), purchases Linden dollars, etc.

By having the card info on file (in other words: having VERIFIED their account) any Linden dollars the resident accumulates/earns while in-world can be sold on the LindeX and the proceeds can be used to pay their account fees and tier fees. Considering a monthly Premium account is only US$9.95 a month a verified Basic account need only earn L$2,786 per month (or L$93 a day over a 30-day month) to upgrade to Premium status (based on a sell rate of L$280 per US$1).

Fees are always charged against any positive US$ balance the resident has in their account FIRST and if money is still owed then charged against the payment info placed on file.

As I've pointed out before
/327/c5/141899/2.html#post1309789/327/c5/141899/2.html#post1309789
(and please copy the text of that post into a notecard to drop on people in-world when they "complain" that they can't get a card)
anyone in the world can get a 16-digit stored value card for use with placing payment info on file with LL, they simply need to make the effort to do so.

Let me make something clear - since I've been quoted now and the point has been missed.

rebate card: This was from Cingular wireless, a rebate on a cellphone I had gotten for Christmas (I live at home folks .... and we don't have much extra money to spend on this stuff right now - repairs and more important things come first, thanks). Non-rechargeable.

Verified: No. Not by a long shot. The card was not in MY name, but in the name of the one that purchased above phone (four of them, one per family member - easier to get a hold of one another in the case of an emergency).

Dumping Lindens into a US dollar balance to pay for the account? sorry, don't make enough in a month to do that - nor I would bet do many newbies.

so, in the long and short of it - please do not presume to think that what you, or others have done will work for everyone. I'll say it again because it bears repeating, though modified to include anyone else that may not have a voice here (I just pray that their reaction is the same)

if you're perfectly willing to pay for my account, or another Basic Member's account for that matter - well then by all means go ahead and continue debating this idea. In fact, if you're willing to pay for a Premium account upgrade - to my account or any other basic - then please feel free to argue that Premium members are the only customers of Linden Lab as well.

If you are not willing to do the above, why then you have little need to be making a case here eh?

That is a helpful link, Elex. I'd just like to add that the option you thoughtfully describe there is only "expensive" from the perspective of those in cultures where credit-card providers are falling all over themselves competing with one another to get people to run up large balances so they can earn the interest; for most of the countries we've been discussing that make it difficult for the typical person to have a useful bank account or credit card, $80 a year is actually a reasonable fee for online payment capability (especially as it let's one receive from international sources as well).

.

After all of this discussion about banks, and payment systems, in countries that Americans know nothing about I still see no reason why Linden Labs should not continue their policy of offering free accounts to the entire world. Free means free and not $10 USD.

I really do wish someone could tell me why it is such a horrible idea for LL to offer free accounts. So far nobody has even given me a clue.

The question is really what makes any unverified so invaluable that other people should be forced to pay for them.
Why should anyone who pays money to LL help pay for support staff to answer questions about what can be done when a camping chair doesn't pay out the L$ 15 that was "promised"?

Running SL isn't free, Lindens don't work for free, LL doesn't magically gets its bandwidth for free, etc. Premiums are paying directly, verified basics who buy L$ indirectly pay by funding content creators with the money they spend, verified basics who don't buy L$ are in a position to spend money should they ever want to and they showed some kind of commitment by verifying.

There are several reasons. One good one would be to pay for more/better support. Another would be to make it more difficult to create griefer avs. Some reasons are just as "true" but not being put forth--the less residents in SL, the smoother it runs; land prices will go back down; people can feel better about whatever they paid to play; etc.

I believe LL is betting they'll end up with a bigger bottom line by "sucking in" people through free accounts, counting on some smallish percentage of them upgrading to premium or buying L$, than they would have if everyone had to pay up-front just to get in. It may also simply things for them in handling students of RL schools or customers of RL companies who come in on school- or company-related business.

Since I believe both buggy performance and poor customer-service are the (unintended?) results of company policy rather than money (i.e. having the money and spending it on better product or support are two different things), I am not in favor of instating a fee for basic residency under the terms of this thread. I am interested in ways to handle griefers and fraud, but given that LL already has a mechanism for dealing with this even without identity verification (IP addresses, hardware signatures, MAC addresses, etc.), I doubt things would improve even in this regard simply by requiring a credit card number at signup.

According to the Economic Statistics located at
http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php
during the month of November 6,690 residents running businesses made a profit of US$10 or greater. They take the Linden dollars they earn in-world and sell them on the LindeX.

If a person is not up to the challenge of paying their own way through Second Life by earning Linden dollars, selling them on the LindeX, and using the proceeds to pay their account and tier fees, then they are simply not up to the challenge. From my perspective, it's not that hard to be one of the 6,690 residents.

Not accepting that challenge nor does an unwillingness to pay out of pocket create an obligation for other persons to step in and pay someone else's account fees. If someone does not wish to pay their own way through SL it does not automatically make them my dependant.

Throughout this thread two reasons have been repeatedly presented as obstacles to paying a fee:

1) Unable to acquire a 16-digit card
when 16-digit cards are easily acquired
/327/c5/141899/2.html#post1309789/327/c5/141899/2.html#post1309789

2) Unable to afford US$9.95
when a person needs only to earn L$93 per day over the course of a 30-day month
/13/21/154495/8.html#post1369306

Both "reasons" are actually poor excuses as in either case a person need only make a minimal effort.

That's 6690 out of a little over 2 million residents. marginally over 0.3%. That, to me, suggests it isn't exactly as trivially easy as you claim. Alternatively, if you assume only 300,000 active residents, then it's about 2%. Statistically, there are more mensa members than profitable SL avatars, per 100 people.

Nor would it really work any other way, if everyone (or even a majority) was able to provide for themselves in SL, noone would buy any L$ and everything collapses.

I'd be willing to buy a premium lifetime account, I already have the basic lifetime (back when they still sold those). LL's policy states, concerning lifetime accounts that they may at any time, for any period of time, make premium lifetime memberships availiable.

Wouldn't that be nice.

Actually, that's 6,690 residents running businesses making a US$10 or greater profit. Total profitable residents during the month of November was 13,788.

These 13,788 residents running profitable businesses made their money from 121,332 residents. During the month of November only 121,332 residents actually spent Linden dollars in world.

Looking at the two groups taking an active role in the SL economy during November, 135,120 total residents (treating both groups seperately), slightly more than 10-percent earned a profit, nearly 5-percent earned a profit of US$10 or more.

Well you have paid for the game as it was so there fore they don't HAVE to offer any future upgrades to you you can continue playing the 2005 version for the next 5 years perhaps only with people places items in existance then too

Even newbies can't post here for 30 days :/

why not let the Unverified accounts have the option to upgrate to basic $10.00 flat fee. Instead of telling them of forcing them to go prem account. after the 30 day limit. Makes sence and alot of money might come in from it. Since people don`t want to buy land etc. Let them upgrade anytime to basic. and if they like go prem later...

Revenue is not the same as profit, those LL figures list revenue. Profit is what is left (if anything) after you deduct costs from revenue.

They make more furries.