ratings reform revisited

we're on the cusp of a few changes and I'd like your feedback so that none of this comes as a suprise. This will also give you a chance to make objections heard and have them considered by Linden Lab staff. We may also hold an in-world meeting to discuss.

The proposed changes are :

1. eliminate negative ratings
2. remove the stipend bonus from positive ratings
3. make ratings optional viewing in profiles (ability to toggle them on or off)
note: This may require too much development time to implement but its something we are
considering...

Please keep in mind this is an effort to gradually phase out the current ratings to make way for their replacement by a new system currrently under development.

Why waste development resources if your gonna scrap this current system?

Just leave it and replace it with the new.

These sound like some pretty exciting ideas. I really hope we have a town hall regarding them.

One of the things I don't like about the current rating system, is that there's no way to provide context for the rating given - making them somewhat arbitrary & meaningless.

Imagine if E-Bay only had Negative & Positive ratings, with no place to give a short "feedblack blurb". I don't think the ratings would mean as much. What's more, with ebay - its also nice that the person being rated has a short space to provide a rebuttal to the rating given.

I often scan ratings of a person I'm thinking of doing buisness with on ebay, just to get an overall feeling.

I think that's what is missing from our current ratings system. I'd very much like to know more about what you have planned for the replacement system, and if it includes something like this.

Having ratings are only weakly useful today, and if you designed it right, they have the potential to be really useful in the future.

I think an inworld meeting to discuss the new system rather than migrating the current might be more interesting.

However, I can only speak for myself.

1. Don't eliminate negative ratings
2. Do remove the stipend bonus from positive ratings
3. Don't bother make ratings optional viewing in profiles

Can we have some details on the new system please?

Thanks for letting us know

Really, at this point why not just drop the entire system? Negative ratings are the most abused, but the positive ratings lose any meaning without them. Not that they nessesarily hold a great deal of meaning as is.
I think it would be a good thing to adjust the stipends so they're the base plus some average of the bonus and delta. Puts everyone on a pretty even footing money-wise. This is especially important for the folks with the $10 lifetime accounts.
Drop the ratings alltogether, easing interim development significantly - just yank it!

Either way, I'm going to miss my negatives. They were little red badges of courage in the fight to do right. Well, save for that one set of three that was random. Oh, and that other set of three that was just extras from someone's alt.

I think that's a fabulous idea, as the forums do not represent enough of SL.

I wholeheartdly support the Linden proposed changes.

I'm all for removing negatives and bonuses, but then shouldn't a positive rating occur for free? With no financial impetus, it makes sense. For now, I'd just remove negatives and keep the cost of rating since its one of the few remaining L$ sinks.

What is Linden Lab gong to do to provide adequate sinks for L$ in the economy? Land is now being sold ONLY for US$. Ratings are barely used any more due to the cost. I'd wager to say that's the lion's share of the L$ sinks that have been removed with nothing to replace them. That's not good.

Where is the L$ coming out of the system? Classifieds? $30/week to list your place of business? We clearly need some viable L$ sinks in the near future, or the value of the L$ will plummet. Please share plans to avoid this happening!

Regards,

-Flip

At this point I see almost no correlation between a user's ratings and the user themselves. The reasons are as follows:

-Anti Social users tend to have fewer ratings than they deserve
-Highly social users tend to have many more ratings than they deserve
-Tripple rates are frequently given to express friendship (or enmity) rather than good appearance or building skills.
-Alts or gangs of people can pile neg rates onto someone out of revenge rather than actual poor behavior.
-Poor users are less able to rate each other due to cost.
-Oldby users don't bother rating each other because they know the rating system is useless.

At MOST I can get a hint that a user is trouble if they have given out a large number of neg ratings, but even this is not completely reliable. So I say, scrap it all.

I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather see some indication of a user's diciplinary record with the Lindens in their profile. Not the details about the infractions, but perhaps a point system from 0 to perma ban. I want to know if the player entering my sim is a potential griefer so I can batten down the hatches. I would also love to have this information color-coded to the name floating over their heads. Perhaps a color range from green to yellow to red so I can spot the bad eggs from afar.

My god.... YES!

No complaints about the changes from me. I think dropping the $25 per rate fee might be a good idea on top of that. Also, I really dig Aimee's ideas! I look forward to hearing some details about the new system in the works.

we cannot leave ratings as is until the new system is ready because of widespread neg rating abuse. we need to make these interim changes now. we're not ready to discuss details of the new system just yet, sorry...I'd be happy to hold an in-world meeting to discuss these interim changes however. please suggest a time, date, and place and ill set it up .... for tues?

This is something i suggested but some people thought it would lag a lil or take some time to load..

/13/58/56060/1.html

Expand the rate system beyond individuals to include the ability to rate a build, item or event that one has enjoyed. So many places are the result of collaborative efforts and identification of individual contributors is beyond most. A positive rate for someone's build skills does not identify the item or place which is targeted. Having an event with many attendees does not indicate a better quality or value is found there.

i think a def "MAP" on and off button and eliminate ratings would be a good idea.

Interesting. Can you explain more about this problem? I've only heard hearsay on the issue -- I didn't realize it had reached a point where Linden Lab was forced to scrap the system.

It no secret some people who probably didn't get enough hugs as a kid used multiple accounts solely for the purpose of neg rating... and other groups of friends turned neg rating at the welcome area into a sport. You'd have to be blind to be a Linden and not see it, hehe

-Flip

I think the ratings system should be turned into a drinking game.

No offense Jesse, but you Lindens must be new at your own game! LOL! "Rate rapes" (Mass neg ratings) have been around quite literally since Beta, and people have complained about them ad nauseum.
So... now that ratings don't even MATTER anymore, you want to fix them?
We have a completely different economy these days, any noob can make more money playing Tringo than they would by rate mining... ratings are wiped after 6 months and the L$75 cost effectively bars people from rating anyway.

And jeeze, Ebay style ratings can only seem useful to those who have never been to ebay.
Plowing through 600 pages of "FIVE STARS!!", "TOP SELLER!", "A++++" didn't prevent me in the least bit from purchasing a counterfeit gameboy game a year ago. The game crashes, the battery quickly died, and the label has come unglued, and the price wasn't that cheap either.
If you use ebay, avoid "hurricane collectibles" like the freaking plague.

I like Aimee's system though! I REALLY LIKE AIMEE'S SYSTEM!
Can we please get that? Pretty please?

I am going on a neg rating spree. I want to be able to tell the tales of the old days, when we were allowed to neg rate innocent Lindens standing around the WA.

Back away from the pony now.

Well, thank Christ my triple-neg gangrapes are on the way out. Only about 4 months overdue...

That being said, if you're going to develop a new system, just spend it doing that. Don't fix a system with a limited lifespan. Unless it's going to take another 2 years to develop this "new" system.

Hell, just use my WuBu idea. please?

LF

i endorse this idea