What constitutes hate speech?

There is modern implied meaning and then there is the etymology. The etymology of the "N" word at one point "just meant" something too. It is the modern implied meaning of calling a person "an oriental" that is extremely offensive and grounds it in modern day racism.

Well, panda, I'd like to clarify further: I believe in actively confronting and discussing things that you pointed out. As I embrace contradictions, paradoxes, etc. there doesn't necessarily have to be silence. There does, however, have to be thoughtful respect for one another, and therein lies a pleasant -- okay, sometimes heated, that's fine, tension can help progress and the plot along -- discussion where people can be amicable but do NOT have to agree with each other.

I have friends who I disagree with on a great many points, but I still get along with them.

I must be desensitized. This thread seems like the most civil one that I have read in a long time!

Hahah... awww *huggerz*

Speaking of hugs, let's hug some trees!

that's a great word! like rhymes with Farrakhan? i like that.

Torley ummm i'm embarassed i'm asking this so late but what's an Asian-Avatarian? i thought that just meant you liked making asian avatars but your website says Torley Wong so maybe you're asian irl but i also kinda thought that was a pseudonym for some reason. educate me!

I am ashamed to admit it but I honestly did not know this.

I probably have not used it in the context of describing a person (at least I hope I haven't) because I tend to not notice race unless it is specifically pointed out as the focus of a conversation.

Sometimes racial slurs can be unintended. I remember my grandmother (when she did make note of someone's race, which was rare), refered to herself as Indian, not Native American and to African Americans as "colored" as this was accepted as a respectful term in her era. My Dad will frequently explain some action of his by prefacing it with "Us Old Indians - we do it this way".

I missed seeing the post that you are speaking of so I'm not commenting on it specifically, just saying that I learned something new today in the SL forums.

Hee hee hee... don't be embarassed, better for you to ask than never know, right?

Well what it means is Torley (Jr.), my avatar, is meant to be the daughter of the "real life" me from a future timeline. My first av, Torley Sr., was pretty much me. Yes I am of Asian heritage biologically. "Asian-Avatarian" is just a fun term I came up one day, "Avatarian" in general sounding pretty amusing as far as "races in the gridverse" go. But whateva!

"They’ve got violence, wars and killing too
All shrunk down a two-foot tube
But out there the world is a beautiful place
With mountains, lakes and the human race*
This is where I wanna be
And this is what I wanna do"

-New Order, "Krafty"

*and I don't mean to discriminate against furries, cybernetic lifeforms, etc. (because Torley Jr. is part-those too)... but I need a better term to encapsulate all of us. Anything more apt than "avatar"?

*giggle* Have you seen this thread, Torley?

/120/35/38001/1.html

You might want to rethink that idea.

It's okay Rose, just blame it on SoFlo. Everything negative in my life is SoFlo's fault.

What amazes me the most in this thread is the perceived tolerance I am getting from the non-dissenters. Whether it was A**** C**** or not the verbiage used in those posts was intolerable by any CS much less the one that binds us in here and in world. Maybe I'm just hyper-sensitive and admittedly anti-A**** but I see more of the 'oh you're just saying that cause it's A****' , rather than outrage at the ignorance displayed.

Alrighty. Yet another attempt of character assassination by the all so familiar gang that stalks and harasses me since weeks and months on this forum.

Of course subject at hand is ridiculous. Billy Madison made one discriminating remark about oriental style of my sale signs that I found racist and insulting of my cultural heritage. I responded to this with one ironic remark, trying to expose the absurdity of his attitute by exaggeration. Of course terms such as "oriental" or "nigger" are inappropriate when used to name people. However in context I used it should have been clear what I meant.

I think the people who brought this up on this thread understand real meaning of my words very well. They are also not concerned about any other American words I might have used in posting when I described certain form of roleplay that is very common in this adult game. It is all about grief, hatred and getting on me. It is warfare, simple as that. Destroy Anshe's reputation, destroy her business, get her banned. And this kind of systematic behaviour, which we have been able to witness since August, is what is real scandal and is what should really get some people at least on serious warning.

Same person who started this thread to attack me, happily uses his own website to break or skirt the very TOS that he pretends to be trying to enforce on me here. Of course that is in the context of attacking my person as well. One example is the posting of IM conversation logs without consent of the other person. This is something everybody can easily verify. When it comes to lies and slander things are often more complex to judge for those who are not directly involved.

I must say that I am sad and disappointed by not only character of those who find nothing better to do with their time than to try to harm me, but also by the fact that they can still do so freely and without consequences. It is like if somebody rings your door bell. If just rings once or twice maybe could be acceptable. But if rings it hour after hour after hour, day after day after day something should happen. And there is one handful of people who have ringing bell to harass me all time for weeks and months. I consider this behaviour offensive and absolutely unacceptable.

I was kicked out of too many sims for arboreal harassment.

I saw her speak once! Very cool.

I haven't showed a bit of tolerance. I am more outraged at people not understanding the usage of the term. It was used to show the ridiculous nature of a racist comment made towards her by another nameless person.

What does gross me out is that nobody really cares about where the implied racism came from. It certainly wasn't her.

I understand completely. You'll notice I stated 'verbiage used in those posts. Not alienating any particular poster.

Panda,

I have said I have a problem with the statement that led to it as well - and had that been the one simply responded to, then I would agree with you 100%. However, the response went way too far. You are giving it way too much credit, and a free pass, which surprises me. Anshe likes to attribute this to being all about her, but had anyone else done the same thing, I would feel the same way about it.

This is where you go overboard. Lumping people into groups. There are always going to be people that disagree with you at the core level that you play this game. Accusing them of trying to destroy your reputation, business, et cetera is a sign of the megalomania that you are often accused of.

You have associated me in the past as one of those people in this group, however I did not use this thread as an opportunity to bash you. That alone should show you that some of the complaints against you just might be valid and that we are all not just "jealous of Anshe and trying to grief her".

At any rate, I am glad that you eloquently clarified your original intention. I do not understand how it was read any other way.

Oops!

personally i think everybody involved is ignorant but if i got outraged at every ignorant thing i saw i'd have a stroke before lunch time. i dunno any way to change an ignorant person's mind. they have to change it for themselves and telling them they're ignorant doesn't make much difference.

from what i could read between the edits in the original posts it didn't look like anybody was trying to be offensive. people can turn any petty thing into a big cause if they want to get offended but if you give people some benefit of the doubt it goes along ways to making what got said less offensive.

party A was ignorant to get upset with party B for a bad adjective choice and for reacting to it in a way that you got to know isn't going to be taken well. but parties C thru Z are ignorant for going overboard on party A (especially when they already say they're anti-A hehe).

bottomline is nobody knows how party B really meant that and as for party A.....i can take hearing "nigger" from an "oriental" alot better than i can from somebody else.

Soooooooo, you have a double standard then ? Why not be equitable for everyone. That goes for respect and consideration. Just because I labeled myself anti-A does not disqualify my post if you will re-read it.

About her attributing it all to "her being anshe" I agree 100% with you Cris. And I absolutely acknowledge that you called both of them out on it.

Maybe I am just accustomed to a different way of expression where your idea of "going to far" is my idea of "going far enough to make an impact". I think Anshe's statement was anathema to racism, but perhaps not worded explicitly enough for it to come across that way to everyone.

If you really want to make some money in your new themed sims, you should make a dunking booth, put up a "Soak the Capitalist Pig" sign, and hop in! I'd pay L$100 for couple of tosses.

~Ulrika~

hahaha yeah i do. minorities got to stick together. if that upsets you then you got the warm fact of being in the majority to comfort you. (assuming you're in the majority)

just goes down to me not thinking either side was trying to be offensive tho. the world would be a better place if we could get on with living instead of getting offended by every little stupid thing and especially getting offended on other people's behalf.

Two quick points - I think you could've made your point without resorting to TOS violating behavior, and it isn't a TOS violation to post things to third-party sites.

Now to elaborate:

We could do this the long way - billboard posts like yours, droning on and on about what offends me and you, but you know what the core of it is? It isn't the L$ you make, the land you sell, or what you're doing with it. It really comes down to a few basic, human characteristics.

I don't trust you.

Others don't trust you.

You've given enough reason to enough people that when choosing between having contact with you, or conduct business with you, they'd prefer to avoid you altogether. And that choice isn't fueled by envy either, its pure mistrust. Not 'misunderstood' like you claim, time after time, but something that has been earned by your behavior in-world.

I'll refrain from hashing through specific events, because honestly, that would devolve into the typical "he said, she said" posting war, which bores everyone frankly, even me.

So spare the whole 'in context' angle to your reply -- the problem with what you said is -- most normal people wouldn't consider using racial slurs as a way to justify or 'prove' an argument.

Ponder that for a while.

I don't know what happened to you to cause your value system to become so skewed that flying off the handle is customary, but I can tell you this -- every time you commit some kind of TOS violation, myself or others will be there to report it, and make sure that the rules are enforced, no matter how many Lindenbucks you have in your account.

Your status doesn't grant you priviledge here, no matter how much of a philanthropist you view yourself to be.

Thanks for reading

Best post of the day.